LDF

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 05:10 AM) Yeah the Braves pitcher was Mike Minor or Ervin Santana too. Upton doesn't really make sense on this team though. I was wondering about that earlier when I saw this. but there was some things that was confusing me. no where in this statement does he said it was a 3 way trade, minor details yeah. here is another thought on the statement by the braves. QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 1, 2014 -> 11:47 PM) Dan Hayes @DanHayesCSN · 33m Rick Hahn said #WhiteSox were working on 3-team deal to get someone they've long targeted on Thurs. No other details provided. Really interesting. Targeted someone who they have been on for a while. Maybe in the off season this will be brought back up? I wish names or teams were mentioned. what player from this list compared to the top statement was the sox wanting to get for a long time. Minor? Santana? Upton? but nevertheless, it was a interesting read. I just realize you gave both quotes.... no offense intended.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 04:11 PM) Here's the poll.... http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=91405 .... So there were more people here who thought this is a below .500 ball blub than at or above .500. The problem with your second stanza is the Sox didn't have any pieces to trade to "go for it". We will just have to agree to disagree on the bullpen being his fault. I laid it out to the best of my ability in my post the other day. I'll wrap that post up to you in one sentence. The org saw Jones, Lindstrom, and Webb as all potential closers, Belly and Downs had both been successful vets, and Petricka earned a spot after looking good last season. Really, I'd soon rather blame KW for not having anyone in the minors to cover for the injuries and implosions of Belly and Downs. Had we had a better arms more far along in the farm system we probably have that depth to cover it. In the last 24 years going from worst to first has happened 11 times, so ya, it's possible to go from a 99 loss team to a contender in a year, but the fact of the matter is everything has to go right in that scenario. I need to clarify 1 thing, reading this post and re-reading the thread, I am under the impression that you and the rest of the posters are talking about the Relief Pitchers. If that is the case I somewhat owe you an apology for my other post. I was thinking of the whole pitching staff. now with re to blame of the "bullpen", I am with you, Hahn could not have predicted Lady Luck and all the injuries that has happen. not only did we have 2 injuries to start the season, but the rest happen. I dare anyone to show any other team that would have done better, trading not included. now if 1 wants to say about trading for help, the sox do not have the resources to make that trade without gutting the farms of some valuable assets. now the blame falls on JR. how can he allowed KW to screw up the farm system this bad!!! JR is the final word, he is the owner. now for the starting rotation, that is another story.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 03:31 PM) I'll give you ramirez but how has Dunn been vastly better this year? And flowers has improved his average but power numbers haven't improved. I wouldn't say he is vastly better. As we have seen over the past week, if abreu isn't driving in runs this entire offense is lifeless. He is was what makes this thing go. Without him, they are easily in the bottom third in runs scored and bottom 5 in record again even with the "vast" improvement of everyone else in the lineup. Regarding defensive metrics, yes they give you an idea of whether a guy is a good defender or not but my problem is the use of them as the end all be all. If they aren't perfect then they shouldn't be used as a large component in everyone's favorite modern age statistic - WAR. When people start using WAR as the single most important metric when evaluating trades, players's worth, etc. that's where I have an issue. Alex Gordon has the third highest WAR of position players this year, that's comical. Is he the third most valuable player in baseball this year? If you went by WAR, the answer is yes but I would love to hear an argument from anyone on this board that justifies this rank. Again, he's a LF, not a SS, 2b, or C, he's a LF! with the way flowers has hit in the past, I would rather see him get a decent to good batting avg instead of more hrs and batting 200-220.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 03:22 PM) I wouldn't say Ventura's in danger of losing the team again, but they do need to make some personnel changes to breathe some new life into final 44 or so games and remove some of those veterans. They held on for 4 months of the season, but things are really rough right now. We're out of contention and playing some teams with everything in the world to play for. It's a transition phase...I think all those guys like Dunn/Konerko/DeAza/Beckham can feel the writing on the wall and the team's just kind of stuck waiting for everything to play out. Even Abreu's homer bat has disappeared for the time being. and that is the key phrase. as I said in another post, sept is coming fast.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 03:17 PM) Can we at least be a little patient with the guy who has played like 3 games in 4 months and is rehabbing a major shoulder reconstruction? seriously, what is the rush. I know it is totally painful to watch, with its present players, as the sox continue to not perform as we want them to. sept is coming and the prospects will be brought up.

QUOTE (BaconOnAStick @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 12:02 PM) Frankly, this idea doesn't turn me on as much as it did last year. I think it is far more important that the guys play well and this team wins a few more games than it would just tanking. I'm petrified of getting stuck in a cycle of badness, and if 2015 is a lost season (as some are already saying) what then? Tank the 15 season also? Last year was the worst I think I've seen this team play, it was different then than it is now. To me this is a group on the cusp of contending, and unless we lose every game from here on out were not getting Carlos Rodon II dropped in our laps a second time around. I don't think the internal pride of this yr players would allow them to tank.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 06:46 AM) Not sure how you could go back to those prediction threads, but I'm glad you did. I think it reaffirms my point. Everyone thought this would be a .500 team. Well, .500 puts you in range of the playoffs in the current format of MLB. If you are there at the trading deadline, then you get to make a choice -- go for it, or sell off and try to go for it next year. None of that changes the fact that Hahn blew the bullpen part of this equation, plain and simple. But don't try to tell me that THE PLAN WAS NOT TO CONTEND. That's BS!! And if that was really Rick Hahn's plan, then he should be fired. while I don't know the thoughts of the sox brass, I don't think the plan was not to, but to do the best and continue to rebuild. this plan needed to chg, b/c of the performance of the players. which is compliment for them, b/c they are not mailing it in. (oops) I also think they the sox brass weren't prepared for all the bad luck, injuries and players not performing as expected.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 04:18 AM) What the hell happened to Eaton already? He and Avisail are a recipe for disaster on the same roster...will keep Herm Schneider busy at least. I know, I was wondering if this is going to be the flavor of what to expect when the sox is ready to make the push for the playoff and the world series

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 09:03 PM) Rodon, Timmy Anderson, Hawkins and Montas. That's about right. why ..... I consider Rodon as being more valuable to the sox than you know the other guy.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 11:02 PM) This is the point that I think is TOTAL BS!! The team was "SUPPOSED" to lose in 2014?? If Rick Hahn told Jerry Reinsdorf and Kenny Williams that "I HAVE NO PLAN ON WINNING IN 2014, AND IN FACT, MY PLAN IS TO CONTINUE LOSING IN 2014" what do you think they would have said? Like any good boss, they would have said -- come back to me when you have a better plan. You may sit here as a casual fan and spin out 5 years plans and hypothetical trades, and fantasize in August 2014 about next year's lineup, but I GUARANTEE you that's not what Rick Hahn's job is. That's not the reality of running the Chicago White Sox. In the real world, the Chicago White Sox have to try to compete every year, even if they are also rebuilding to strengthen their club for the future. They aren't the Cubs, who get a perennial pass and adoration from clueless fans regardless of the crappy teams they put on the field. So, Rick Hahn did a lot of things this offseason to both rebuild the team, and get it to compete for a playoff spot in 2014. If he didn't care about the latter, there are a lot of things he wouldn't have done, because they have no future with the club. Why keep Adam Dunn? Why not just dump him for as much salary relief as you can get? Why keep De Aza? He's also got no long term future, and is the highest paid outfielder on the team, as a BACKUP! Why re-sign Paul Konerko for another year? He's going to retire at year's end. Why dump money into signing Downs and Bellisario and Paulino? None of these guys could be expected to last even if they pitched as well as they had in the past. Why not unload John Danks at the trade deadline for salary relief, even if you get nothing back? More money to spend in the future. Why is Gordon Beckham still here? You might be "HAPPY" about a Sox team that is going to miss the playoffs again, and is sinking like a rock now that the complete collapse of the bullpen has sapped any remaining chances the team had of making a late season run. I see a team that had tremendous POTENTIAL, that could have made the playoffs in 2014 with a better bullpen plan and a better manager. When that potential is undermined and lost, I'm disappointed. And I think the guy who put the plan together deserves to be criticized, because with a better plan, the team could have made a run. As I said earlier, I think Rick Hahn would AGREE. I'm guessing he's learned a lot from the mistakes he's made, and isn't planning on repeating them. this is why I respect you as a poster. a great point. but oh s***.... I am kind of drunk as well.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 11:30 PM) This thread is ridiculously long. I just have a question for all of those posters here who would defend Robin Ventura as the White Sox manager. What do you see as Robin Ventura's strengths as a manager? What is he bringing to the table that is helping the White Sox win ballgames? No manager is perfect. All of them have flaws. But they've got to have enough strengths to overcome those flaws. What are they in Robin's case? you don't make a move b/c you can or your fans expect you to. the sox org should make the move if it is the right thing to do. regardless what we the fan thinks. he is learning, ok he is doing ojt but the sox is not ready to contend. let me ask you this, what is it of RV that has you so determine to move him. the team is not yet ready.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 02:25 PM) The plan is just fine. That the execution fell apart was ALWAYS a possibility and would have been even if the plan were different. Part of the plan is that you accept higher short-term risk in your bullpen in exchange for less long-term risk, because the ultimate goal is to remain flexible with your resources so that you can most adequately and immediately complement your team as you get closer to contention. What happened to the bullpen this year was about the worst realistic outcome in the spectrum. It was more likely that they were adequate as a group, and it was probably just AS likely that they exceeded expectations as it was that they failed so miserably. If a front office fails at this strategy consistently, then you can question their ability to evaluate talent, but this is EXACTLY what the Cubs have been doing to the past few years and the result for them has been a net positive. So if you want to criticize it, then make an argument against the FO's ability to identify good bounceback candidates -- but the plan itself makes plenty of sense. I am going to try to play devils. advocate, maybe what may have thrown a monkey wrench in the hole plan was several factors. Jose A being as good as he is, very good performance by a hand full of starters including Adam E, and pride in themselves. this team is doing well above what many thought they would do, including me. that is way I am excited for 2015 team and what other pieces Hahn would bring in.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 02:08 PM) lol that isnt rhetorical. He did not start the season with the team, he bounced from the Mariners to Texas to Chicago. I know, I was trying to give a way out.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 05:05 PM) Did Avi drink Jobu's rum? it took a few sec to figure it out..... then I laugh. good one.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 06:46 AM) Both the starting staff and the pen were extremely thin to start the year (especially the pen - the mediocre Lindstrom as one of your top 2 pitchers shows that it's a real weakness). What killed the pitching is that the 2 young starters (Johnson and Rienzo) went 360 degrees backwards in terms of player development. What the heck happened to those 2? Otherwise, it was still thin; Paulino was a bust, but he recouped with Noesi. And it's still rebuilding period. But with 2 young pitchers not only taking steps back - but looking like they'll never contribute again - it's a longer rebuilding job than first thought. I agree wholeheartedly, remember I am a big fan of Hahn. I can admit that there were some mistakes. he is not batting 100 % in all of his dealing, but the question was is he responsible for the sox bullpen. the bottom line falls on the person who assemble the bullpen and that was Hahn.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 05:29 AM) He did. Hector Noesi. And it's worked. let me ask you this 1 question, it may be rhetorical in nature, but did he start the season with him on the team.

never said anything about the pen. with the starting pitchers, I will say we agree to disagree. Hahn needed to get 1 more sp and not gamble heavily on what he started the season with.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 12:14 AM) Depth on a rebuilding team is never a priority good point let me add, going to 2 known pitchers, a pitcher coming back from a injury, then putting all you eggs (gamble) on a reclamation pitcher and a rookie. I just don't know. it is too much of a question mark starting a season like that. regardless if it is a rebuilding yr or not.

Hahn most definitely should share the major burden of the blame. it was his job to ensure that he has more than a couple of starters ready to step in even if the injury bug hit. putting all your money on Felipe Paulino and Erik Johnson was gambling. they should have gotten another sp. for the pen, Hahn should share the blame with Lady Fortuna. that was some bad luck but then again nothing like Tex Rangers. still rotten luck.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 01:16 PM) I liked Lucy, although the Bradley Cooper version (less scientific) was preferable and a better script. On the other hand, any movie that forces you to think and has Morgan Freeman in it...can't be all that bad. However, I can certainly understand why the rottentomatoes rating is hovering right around 60%, which is considered the bottom cutoff for good and turning into mediocre. It's definitely worth seeing, though. Guess they had to make the Koreans the bad guys in this one (and their motivations/reasons for villainy are one of the script weaknesses)...instead of the Chinese/Taiwanese. That's not a plot spoiler, as Jang is clearly supposed to be a Korean drug/crime boss and most importantly speaks Korean, haha. I guess that is one way to think about it. I am more incline to say it is to get the world wide interest in the movie and thus make a bigger profit at the gate.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 03:12 PM) Here it is - the full Midseason Top 25 Prospects list by FutureSox. Let's hear your thoughts! And of course, feel free to spread the link around if you see fit. man that is a sweet looking prospect list. I know it is the prospect that the sox have. btw...... all my thanks to you and everyone involve for your hard work doing this.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 03:04 AM) Do people still think Leury Garcia is worthy of a roster spot for next year? .182/.216/.236. You just can't carry that from someone who's not a pitcher. I am split on this. he is really valuable as the clubhouse jokester and can provide a lot of humor around. but his baseball tools, ???? I don't know.

damn. the sCrub may get Cole Hamels form phi. I was hoping it was the sox that claimed him

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 08:14 PM) His FB has consistently been 92-96 I think. 80 slider. He's the goods. But we knew that already. A big thank you to the Astros and Marlins. how bout even a bigger thanks to Scott B his agent / advisor for allowing him to sign for what he did.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 11:25 PM) BTW -- why do you re-sign Paul Konerko if you don't think he can help you compete in 2014? I will bet even money it was for 2 reason. 1 so the sox can give the fan fare they hoped that other team will do as they did for jeter. that did not work. 2 the unknown factor >>> Jose A manning 1 b.