Chisoxfn

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:54 AM) I wouldn't count out Schmidt, nor Zito, especially if Harden makes some progress in his recovery. Smoltz could be moved. Then you have to lump Freddy in with the 2nd tier guys, Livan Hernandez, Jon Lieber, Tony Armas. So if all the top tier guys are called untouchable, and all the teams owning the 2nd tier guys demand the very best prospects, then you could perhaps command that price for Freddy. I just don't see that happening. Livan, Lieber and Armas aren't near as valuable as Freddy. Although the first two when on are total horses, not the greatest pitchers but definately solid. Armas has a ridiculous injury history. A's aren't about to deal Zito unless they are getting front line stuff in return and there is no way the Giants are moving Schmidt unless they fall out of contention. Plus I Think the Giants are planning on doing what they can to resign Jason.

QUOTE(illinilaw08 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:53 AM) I would in a heartbeat. Freddy has 10 wins this year and a decent WHIP even though his ERA is high. Yes his velocity is down, but Diaz would be an automatic loss every 5 days. The Mets are looking at the prospect of Jose f***ing Lima. You can't tell me Freddy isn't better than that. Big AB for Dye here, let's tie this game back up. Finally, I think people are forgetting how bad it was for the Sox when they were trotting out Felix Diaz, Josh Stewart, Danny Wright, Jon Rauch and countless other bums with the automatic loss. The Cards tend to have a couple guys in the rotation doing that while the Mets need a guy if they want to really solidify there rotation and if anyone can point out someone else thats available thats better than Freddy (and yes career numbers do matter when you make a trade because in general people tend to trend to there average unless they are done and Freddy is not done my friends).

QUOTE(SoxFanForever @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:51 AM) Nice hit PK....nice hustle Jim What the f*** was that Thome. We shoudl have runners on 2nd and 3rd now with 1 out but instead 2 down and Paulie in position. Come on Dye, come up with the clutch hit here.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:48 AM) I'm asking if you were GM of the White Sox and our 5th starter slot was filled by Felix Diaz or whoever, would you give up someone like Josh Fields for Garcia? I sure wouldn't. As far as the Cards and Mets, their rotation would still be s*** with Freddy. I'd give up more and take my chances that his numbers (since for the most part his stuff is still there, albeit i'm the first to admit his FB isn't near what it once was, but its not like he doesn't have plus breaking stuff) would get closer to his career trends. And if we had Freddy Garcia (this one) in our rotation we may have another world series ring since we had to suffer through that s*** with Diaz when we had Colon/Elo/Buehrle in the rotation all kicking butt and taking names. And I should mention the Cards rotation doesn't just have guys like Diaz, they got a few guys like Diaz.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:44 AM) I don't mean to insult, but are you kidding? A team in a pennant race would trace FOR Garcia? Do you think a team in a pennant race would trade for a pitcher who has been nearly an automatic loss spot in the roation? No team in a race would want him. No one could risk it. You don't pick up a reclamation project and put him in your rotation for a stretch run. 10-5...5 games over .500, how is that an automatic loss.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:43 AM) You think we could get (say) Pelfrey AND Heilman? Agree to disagree on that. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Please... We swing in a guy like Tracey and its a deal, imo. The Mets are desperate for another starter. And I just want to point out, you don't throw 8 shutout innings against a team like the Cards without having some talent. Freddy's done that this year...he's had a full month with an ERA in the 3's, he throws innings and he's just 30 years old.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:43 AM) Yeah, Mark Hendrickson has been pitching better than Freddy at the time he was dealt. If there are GMs who will trade for Freddy based on reputation, then they should be fired. That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while. Freddy clearly isn't the same pitcher he was in the past. If I can see that, so can opposing scouts and GMs. What about people willing to trade for Schmidt last year when he was pitching mediocre because people expected to pick him up and turn things around. Than Schmidt went on a bit of a run and obviously he was never sent. And I can't believe your actually comparing Hendrickson to Garcia and saying Hendrickson should get more trade value. We are talking about a guy who couldn't hold Garcia's jock strap.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:41 AM) Would you give up upper echelon prospect for Freddy? We're just as desperate for dependable starters as those teams. If I'm the Cards, I'd give up whatever it took for Freddy. If I'm the Mets I'd trade Pelfrey for Freddy. The guy hasn't been near as bad as a lot of you think he has this year. Not saying he's been good either, but he's had runs where he's been just fine and he's still throwing innings. Sure there is a concern he's not throwing hard but I think physically he's fine. Look at it this way, The Cards got s*** in the rotation, the Mets got 2 guys in there rotation and they both need help if they want to even think about a World Series win against any of these AL teams.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:39 AM) I can deny that, though. At least in this market. I can't imagine they won't be able to do better if they're willing to deal Milledge and Hughes. If you'd like to enlighten me on whose available in this market with so many teams in contention? Jason Schmidt isn't available unless a team is giving up a pretty damn good starting pitcher back to the Giants. So if you guys know of any pitchers who are proven winners on the market, do tell.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:38 AM) Do you think other GMs aren't seeing him pitch? Gordon will help us more now than Freddy. If that's on the table, get it done and don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I don't understand your thinking at all. I don't care that they are seeing him pitch, they know the guy has done it and as recently as last year. Plus he's had streaks this year where he was doing it. Teams in the race would f***ing love to pick up a guy like Garcia and see what they could do and they'd give up a fortune. For crap sakes the Drays get an upper echelon catching prospect for Mark Hendrickson and the Angels got a solid outfield prospect with some pop for Jeff Weaver. You guys are kidding yourselves if you don't think we could swing him to a team like the Mets for a top notch pitching prospect and maybe a guy like Heilman.

On a sidenote, I should mention Freddy has had many outings where he recovers greatly after giving up 3 in the first inning.

I'll say one thing...our rotation is vastly over-rated by all of baseball right now and they proved a lot last year, but last year doesn't mean s*** this year. If I'm Kenny, I'm looking to UPGRADE the rotation if at all possible and if that means dealing a guy like Freddy and someone else for another starter than so be it.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:33 AM) Those are people who still think we're going to see the greatest rotation in history come around. I don't care about career averages or trends...all you have to do is watch Garcia pitch, and he's just begging to get crushed in his starts. You can't deny that teams would give up upper echelon prospects for him though, teams like the Mets, Yankees, or Cardinals.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:31 AM) Yet some people still think that's not enough of a return. Its not. We aren't about to trade freddy for a damn near 40 year old reliever, not unless the team is also getting something for the future. I don't care how bad Freddy has been, a guy with his repetoire, his proven track-record of success, and his ability to pitch in the post-season, will allow the Sox to get a MAJOR package as if he were available he'd be one of the premiere pitchers on the market. Mack held to a single as the ball down the line hit that stupid corner.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:27 AM) It's quite simple...unless these pitchers step it up, we're not going to the postseason. I'd prefer to say we aren't going anywhere in the post-season. But ya this offense can't continue to carry the team. IT needs consistent pitching, during our win streak it looked like it was coming around but than they fell back off the ledge.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 10:27 AM) Yep, this game is over. There is absolutely no way this team can come back from 2 runs down in the first inning. Its just downright impossible. We can score, problem is they'll score more.

Now we are losing by 2 cause Freddy is garbage.

Our pitching staff is so freaking over-rated right now. They've went all season without performing and therefor they dont' deserve to be mentioned amongst the league's best. Freddy has been better as of late, but he's not excatly been impressive (ERA around 5). Buehrle has been s*** as of late and a low 4's ERA is nothing to brag about. Vazquez has been horrid after a good starter while Garland has made some major progress and Count has been our ace. We have 1 good pitcher at this point and its a shock we are as close to the Tigers as we are. Just look at there rotation and how its produced mixed with a pretty impressive offense. How we are within 4.5 games is beyond me. Thankfully our offense has been ridiculous but I have no problem making a major move that deals one of our underachieving turds for a pitcher thats performing.

Good cause some of the names that have been tossed around really had us getting reamed.

Bout damn time.

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 12:25 AM) I know. I was just kidding. The man is 40. I think he will have to start duct taping his knee joints together soon. But would not mind him. He can call a good game. OH, you were talking about Alomar and ya I think he'd be an upgrade and would fit in fine with the team (clubhouse wise). I was thinking that was Stewarts avg and was kind of stunned that it was that high cause before I went out of town I swore it was around .280 or so. Alomar now...Stewart in September (get his feet wet, plus a 3rd catcher gives Ozz some flexibility) and than turn things over to Stewart next year with Alomar hopefully retiring with a Sox world series ring

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 12:19 AM) So when the hell did we acquire Tim Bittner? Yet another Angels castaway. Isn't Bittner originally a Sox castaway (part of the Scho deal) and IIRC we recently picked him up as a FA. In fact I think the Angels were pretty high right after they acquired Bittner (if I'm thinking of the right guy, we send him, Scott Dunn and maybe someone else).

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 12:20 AM) he is hitting .339 Don't let that avg fool you, although Stewart has made a ton of strides as of late at the minor league level, but he's still not what you'd consider an offensive catcher nor do I think he'd hit more than .250 at the major league level (especially not right away) but he's made strides, works hard, and would be our best catcher defensively (in terms of blocking the plate and throwing runners out; AJ would be the best at working with the pitchers).

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 07:25 AM) Well, I am not certain about what these guys said, but this does seem to pretty much be the consensus opinion around the nation, among baseball fans. Apparently our feed is the one used the majority of the time on mlbn.com as well as on the extra innings package. I normally peruse the opposing team's message boards while we are playing them, and without fail, there sprouts up a thread about how horrible Hawk & the DJ are. They are often described as "the worst in the league, or if not, the second worst behind the YES network guys (especially Michael Kay). Thing is, I could give a s***. Hawk and DJ's broadcast is meant to appeal to the average White Sox fan, not some opposing team's out-of-market fans. I understand they are also on WGN, which is a national station, but Harry Caray's drunken unprofessionalism never seemed to draw the wrath and ire of the opposing fans as Hawk does. I imagine it has something to do with the recent success of the WS, as these complaints were less and less numerous a few years ago. Finally, Farmio has his silly stories he tells as well. While Hawk might be pleasuring himself during the game to the good ole' days with Yaz', Farmio never stops telling us that Brian Daubach likes strawberry ice cream, or that Jon Garland went to high school with Garrett Anderson (which is right by where he lives). The Yanks broadcasting crew is very good, in fact I'd call it top notch. I think in general opposing team fans wouldn't like hawk and DJ because they obviously favor the Sox and thats probably a problem but they are some of the best in the biz compared to some of the crap I've listened to on Xtra innings.

What a joke Bob Watson is.