Chisoxfn

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 02:06 PM) Maranelli and Lovie make the defense better or Mike Shanahan is the coach in 2010 Definately.

QUOTE (T R U @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 02:04 PM) I said I thought both teams won, I liked Denvers return better though. Both teams got what they wanted out of it. Most of the response has made it seem like I am against what the Bears have done and I think Denver fleeced them. Which I don't. What I meant by that is, if that's how you want to view this then I will be more than happy to just bash on the Bears and Cutler if no one is going to look at it both ways. Its not a threat, but why would I continue to say I liked both ends of the deal if I am being made to look like I am some huge Denver/McDaniels supporter? Do you understand what I am saying here now. I understand you and I think as a whole we both see things pretty similarly. I lean to the Bears if anyone being the winner but I like the deal from both perspectives aside from the fact that I think the Broncos made a mistake in putting themselves into the position where they had to trade Cutler because they were a good RB away from having an elite offense.

Sal Pal said that the Broncos had 4 to 5 teams who made serious offers. He also said that if there was anything the Bears were most concerned with in regards to Cutler were alcohol problems and immaturity and they discussed these things with Hillmeyer, Bennett, Williams. The other thing they were concerned with were in regards to how he could deal with immense expectations.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 01:57 PM) What is the deal with Marvin Harrison? Most experts think he's lost too much to be able to get open consistently in the NFL.

QUOTE (T R U @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 01:55 PM) You're right Cutler does make other people better with his presence, but do you think the Bears are going to change their offense now and throw the ball over 600 times a season? They still need to help out the offensive line, which they are trying to do with adding Pace. How about the defense though? They have gotten progressively worse, that's another thing they need to address. Bennett could very well become better with Cutler at QB now, but I don't think adding Cutler changes his talent level. Do you think that now because Cutler is here he is all of the sudden going to get it? Maybe, well see how that plays out. They need to fill some more holes before they become super bowl contenders, but they have a nice start so far. Look at teams with great QB's and you'll see that in general they are able to turn out more good WR's as a whole. The Colts with Peyton, Denver with Elway, Packers with Favre, etc. The Bears offense will adjust, look at Turners history with a good QB (Kramer was the closet to good and he had Conway and Graham being the only duo in Bears history to have 1000 yard seasons in the same year). This guy is a perfect fit for Turners system, imo. Will the Bears throw 40 times a game, hell no, they have a great RB too, and the duo should work phenomenally over the next few years. This is a tremendous deal for the Bears and as far as the Broncos are concerned they f***ed up to piss off Cutler, but I fully believe they got fair value. Both teams won, but I give Chicago a bigger win given the overall need and the intangibles of the trade (ie, the statement made and the state of the franchise) and the overall fact that the Broncos as a whole were stupid to piss of a potential elite QB. Cutler could end up failing miserably and I'd still say it was a brilliant deal for the Bears given the circumstances. Clearly I hope he goes on to win a number of superbowls and I think he might do exactly that in time.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 01:54 PM) What are we arguing? You said you wanted people to pay attention to you or you would show how the Bears are totally f***ed. I'm just waiting to see that threat come to life. So far you said Cutlers a crybaby, its windy in Chicago, we dont have Brandon Marshall, and Daniels 2 years in NE proves he will turn anyone into Tom Brady. I still dont see how the Bears have f***ed themselves in that scenario. Cutler's Qb rating is 7 points higher than the GREATEST season a Bears QB has had since that stat was in place. I want to see this flip side argument that you keep threatening to bring up. Thats all. Call it Bears fan enlightenment. For those saying Cutler's a crybaby lets just say this. Cutler is the face of the Broncos and his head coach is fired. Cutler is upset but stays quiet. Broncos do tell Jay that the OC will stay there, but than he gets fired. Cutler continues to stay quiet. The Broncos than hire a young coach whose going to bring in a whole new system, Cutler again stays quiet. Than the Broncos try to trade him behind his back and Cutler gets pissed. Pretty freaking understandable, especially after hearing McDaniels talk. I hope he falls flat on his face.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 01:49 PM) I think the Bears OL is significantly upgraded from last year already, especially if they're creative and wind up trying Pace out at RT Plus Cutler is more mobile and gets rid of the ball quicker than Kyle so that too could help improve the pass rush.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 01:41 PM) The need to improve of the OL pronto...Pace is a good start even though he's best years are behind him,he can probably be better than avg... Last season Pace played at a near Pro Bowl level. Was he as good as everyone was used to no, but he was still a well above average LT. The only question with him is health, imo, and last year he was fairly healthy. If he does go down, the Bears have plenty of depth in Shaffer and Omilaye.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 12:44 PM) Call me crazy to say that Kyle Orton could actually put up better numbers than Jay Cutler this upcoming season. And I'm basing that on; 1 - McDaniels will be a better offensive coach than Ron Turner 2 - The Broncos probably still have the better offensive line. 3 - The Broncos have better WR's. Cutler's a better QB no doubt, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him initally struggle a little learning a brand new scheme (although you could say the same for Orton also). Your not crazy, your f***ing crazy.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 12:31 PM) After Tank Johnson, there is no way Angelo signs Matt Jones. No way. Some other team my give him another chance, but Jerry isn't going to take the chance to get burned again like that. Since Tank, the Bears took a chance on Marcus Harrison and were rewarded.

QUOTE (T R U @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 12:22 PM) Sorry, Broncos won that deal. And I know you got your Bears glasses on right now, but take em off and maybe you'll see Griese and Plummer both had some very good seasons with the Broncos. The Bears mortgaged their future for a guy who is 17-20 as a starter and has never had a winning season. If you guys wanna keep ignoring what I have been saying about this I can easily turn this into a why this was a terrible deal for the Bears and how they are now f***ed. The Bears might have also turned Bennett into a potential first round pick with the acquisition. I realize he was a 3rd round pick, but all of a sudden he becomes a better WR (we'll have to see if it happens, but I think it will, plus Bennett has a lot of talent and was someone most draft experts raved about as being a guy with a lot of upside last year when the Bears drafted him). Greg Olsen might just make the leap to being an elite TE. Forte could prove to be an elite RB because of this (maybe not as explosive as Faulk or Tomilson, but in a similar range with an ability to get 1000 rushing and 1000 receiving yards). Hester might be able to make the jump from being a 750 yard WR to a 1000 yard WR with a QB who can make him better and best yet, good QB's can make good WR's great. It doesn't work the other way around, imo. I think great WR's can make a serviceable QB solid, but not a good QB great or elite. Plus the Bears now have a whole different image, expectation, and ora and there should be something said about that. In general, I think the Bears just found the solution to there WR problem and it involved getting a QB with the chance to be elite (and compare his numbers to all the greats and they are on par thus far) as he makes every WR on the roster better and will make it much easier for the Bears to develop or sign WR's (you don't think that the Bears didn't become an attractive place for any WR thats a FA, think again, cause if I'm a good WR, one of the first things I look at aside from money is whose throwing me the ball, and Cutler did a great f***ing job getting two above average WR's numbers). Oh and if the Bears get Plaxico, Jones or Holt, I'll go as far as saying that the Bears are legit superbowl contenders and that will be the first time I've said that in some time. Scoop Jackson said it best regarding this trade, basically indicated how important it is to the franchise and that it puts them as immediate favorites in the division but they still are a few holes short of being superbowl contenders but those holes can be addressed now or in a few years as the whole landscape of the franchise has been changed.

QUOTE (rangercal @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 11:07 AM) They probably only heard chopped up versions of his quote . His quote was not negative at all. I've heard mixed things, but I will say this, Urlacher better back the move or his ass will get shipped out. Before the trade he was the aging face of the franchise, now Jay Cutler is the franchise and if Urlacher doesn't get down with it he can get the f*** out. He's been a whining baby who hasn't played that great the past couple years whose constantly made excuses for the defense and thats not what a leader does.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 10:48 AM) Matt Jones would be ideal, but would the Bears want to bring in a guy like that with his character issues? Probably not, but when you get a QB like Cutler, you got to surround him with guys and the Bears lost a couple picks and I believe FS has now become there #1 need. The Bears also still have a good group of vets that I think would keep a guy like Jones in line. Than again, the WR corps is very young so maybe it would be bad to put a guy like Jones around Hester/Bennett. Clearly Jones is the better long-term solution over Holt, but Holt is the steady veteran that could really be the glue. Jones was on pace for 1000 yards, is an elite athlete for a guy his size and seemed to be really finally come close to his potential and would be a badass target along with Olsen in the red zone (combine Olsen/Jones and Forte and you are talking about a ridiculous red zone offense, imo).

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 10:46 AM) They want Roy Williams compensation for tradin Boldin. If he's dealy, my guess is he's off to Philly because they have a lot of early picks. And Holt didn't sound that excited about going to Chicago by the recent talk from his agent FWIW. You got a link andrew, I haven't heard anything about Holt saying anything regarding Chicago.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 10:31 AM) Is Boldin still potentially available? I am dreaming of Boldin in the slot and Holt and Hester split wide... Bears don't have the ammo to acquire him. I think Holt or Matt Jones would be perfect pickups and great combo's to go with Bennett/Hester/Forte/Olsen/Clark.

Bring in Holt as a 3rd WR to play in the slot and maybe have a higher load early in the season while Bennett and Hester continue to develop and we'll be in business. I'm super excited to have Cutler in here.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 10:24 AM) It was probably one of their linebackers. They have like 3 linebackers who could very well go in the first round - Maualuga, Cushing, and Matthews - and Scott Wright says they have two other linebackers who could get drafted too. Oh and I was talking with my girlfriend going god, Sanchez looks small...I get up to go to the bathroom and he gets up and I was like holy f***, nevermind, he's huge. Patrick Turner is a tall mofo too and apparently had a pretty good workout. Only mistake was I eventually talked briefly with Sanchez and he ends up asking me who my team is and I go the Bears and I said, no offense, I hope you slide because I have always wanted a franchise QB and you could be it). Well no longer is that a concern of mine, LOL.

I believe McCulloch, Rasner and Long will be in the pen. Not certain about Harrel, but thats a possibility as well.

McDaniels didn't sound all that excited about Orton. I'm so f***ing excited.

QUOTE (rockren @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 08:55 PM) Which makes me wonder how the hell Bowlen ever hired McDaniels in the first place. I wonder if he actually said in the interview process..."Yeah I'd like to get rid of that QB you have. I'll bring in a real winner. Who needs 4500 yards passing?" McDaniels is an arrogant f***. He might pan out, but he's being awful ballsy for a young head coach.

QUOTE (rockren @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 08:35 PM) I was relieved the Bears didn't have to part with any of their current players, but was more than prepared to happily have the Bears do so if need be. I'd have rather dumped Urlacher than a 1st rounder, but than again, I'm not Urlachers biggest fan and happen to think he's a moron.

QUOTE (T R U @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 08:27 PM) Brady Quinn? Aaron Rodgers? You would be hard pressed to see ANYONES mock having either of them fall into the 20's in their draft years. I actually sat right next to Sanchez right after his proday (and the rest of the USC guys) and he got a call during his dinner (I was about 1 foot from him the entire time over at ESPN Zone before I went to see Chris Paul beat the Clippers) and some team called him up raving about his workout and when he got off the phone he looked at his mom and said, mom, I might be going earlier than any of us thought. No idea if that meant anything or not. Sanchez was also raving about some guy whom I didn't know ofs workout and all of the USC guys were talking about how much that guy helped his stock. Don't ask me, I Follow the draft and enjoy it but I don't know of every guy USC has.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 01:00 PM) Your value is what teams are willing to pay. Raul Ibanez got $11 mill over 3 years, and I'd say Dye is worth more than Ibanez is (though that deal also speaks to the Phillies stupidity). Adam Dunn got $10 mill, and I'd say Dye is a similar player to Dunn. Of course, Abreu got $5 million, and he's arguably a better player than Dye. The point is, the Sox couldn't find a taker for Dye because of how much he cost financially and in terms of players. Teams were not willing to pay the $11 million for Dye while also giving up a very good player. I can guarantee you that there are teams around the league who would be willing to pay Dye $11 mill. For Swisher, he got a utility player with some ability to start at 3B, a starting pitching prospect, and a relief prospect they liked more than the one they gave up. For Vazquez, they got an up and coming catching prospect, a super utility player with the potential to start at SS, 2B, or CF (plus any other position around the diamond besides catcher), and two lower level minor leaguers with high upside. I don't necessarily see what the problem is with the prospects they got back in return. Sure, they were looking to dump salary, but they got good packages back in return. When I was down at minor league camp last week, I heard some interesting tid-bits. The scouts there were raving about Gilmore and shortly after I saw Gilmore turn on a pitch and put it over the fences in a minor league game. I also saw the big lanky lefty they acquired and the scouts were again raving about them. In fact, the Sox scouts were all very excited and we heard on a couple different ocassions that things are going to get fun again down in the Sox minor leagues as the talent level isn't even close to what it used to be and that it is going to be fun to watch these guys develop. Also, another tidbit, but look for the Sox to pick up a starting pitcher for AA sometime shortly (if they haven't done so already). Not like a great prospect, more like a guy that gets waived who could come in and help down in AA.

As someone that has done nothing but slam Gordon until this season (I tip my cap to him), I'll go out and say ROse is f***ing awful defensively. I put him at least on the level of Ben Gordon during the first couple years of his career, if not worse. I completely agree with your assessment Ninetrain.

QUOTE (T R U @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 07:52 PM) I wouldn't go that far, clearly McDaniels still wants to get his guy in there. I doubt that its Orton. I wouldn't be shocked if they tried to flip one of those firsts to get Cassel. Not sure if that's something KC would entertain, but I bet they at least try it. Either way, Orton should work fine for them in the mean time while McDaniels gets the guy he wants to be his QB. I can't see KC dealing with there division rival. They have a lot of needs but they seem quite happy with having Cassel there. And I'm not saying Orton is the guy, but NFL Network was reporting that the Broncos actually liked Orton and I Think its because he can be a system type of QB.