striker

From what I hear Texas, Yankees and Mets all have good pitching prospects.

So who are the big buyers for SPs now? Texas Yankees Mets Cardinals San Francisco Blue Jays

This means we might get better. We'll see who loses out on Zito.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6265388 Garland >>> Jennings so I'm glad the Sox backed out.

Its funny how when the hot stove cools off all the Sox fans get vicious and turn on eachother. COMPLETE MAHAM!!

Javier Vazquez had a lower BAA, OBP and WHIP than Garland and has better stuff than Garland. I'm not saying we should get rid of Garland, I'm just saying that may be something they are considering when shopping their pitchers. Vazquez is a strikeout pitcher and that is sexy (Alot of baseball writers have used this term lately).

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 05:51 PM) Trade away another starter or two from the Sox and I am willing to bet we are no better than 3rd or 4th in the AL Central next year. Pitching is where it's at and we can get all the "potential talent" in the world, but I don't see it helping before a couple of seasons at the earliest. If these other teams need our guys so bad I think we should be gettting more than what we did for Freddie. You wonder when some of them are going to bankrupt anyway at the prices they are paying for mediocrity. I don't understand why you think just because our starters have popular names and big salaries that they will be successful? Getting rid of Freddy opened a spot in the rotation for McCarthy (who just has to have an ERA less than 4.5 to be able to replace Freddy), it brought 2 more possible starters in the future, and it saved us $10million dollars this year. How is this a bad move? Freddy struggled to throw 90mph, Cecil Fielder could steal off him, he was going to want $15mil/year as a free agent and despite winning 17 games he had an ERA of 4.53. What makes you so sure we could have gotten more for Freddy? Don't you think that Kenny Williams knows more about his options then you do? I disagree that pitching wins ball games. GOOD pitching wins ball games and Freddy was no longer GOOD. QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 05:51 PM) Trade away another starter or two from the Sox and I am willing to bet we are no better than 3rd or 4th in the AL Central next year. Pitching is where it's at and we can get all the "potential talent" in the world, but I don't see it helping before a couple of seasons at the earliest. If these other teams need our guys so bad I think we should be gettting more than what we did for Freddie. You wonder when some of them are going to bankrupt anyway at the prices they are paying for mediocrity. BTW, Detroit and Minnesota both won last year because of two young unproven starters, Liriano and Verlander.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 07:48 PM) Sign me up for Hirsch, later JG... I agree though, I'd prefer to develop good young pitching and spend on positions. I agree too. I don't understand how Sox fans can complain about this trade. We had 6 good starters coming into 2006 now we have 5. All we need is 5. But now we also have 2 more pitching prospects.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 11:17 PM) im the opposite, i would rather spend the money on quaility pitching while develop the possition players. Pitching wins championships we saw that in 2005. However, it is important to plug in pitchers from your own system every now and then also. Pitching is over priced right now. There are more cheap bats available than arms.

Just for the record, when the press and GMs talk about payroll I don't think they include cash they received from other teams. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Everyone rips on how dumb Phil Rogers is, now everyone is believing what he says? I don't think KW is dumb enough to get rid of everyone. Their #1 goal is still to win championships.

I don't blame KW and JR. You can't give into the players like other GMs have. Plus, you don't know what Garcia, Vazquez and Buehrle are asking for on their extensions. They may all want $15mil/year, which they aren't worth. I hate to see those guys go but I'd hate to see us spend tons of money on them and have them suck or get injured. Its all a business. If Gary Matthew Jr. and Juan Pierre are making $9mil/year then you know our pitchers are asking for alot more. And they aren't worth it. I would be interesting in knowing how much more profit the team has made in the past couple years. Because I'm also a fan of sharing the wealth.

I like this trade. We get a future starter, a bullpen arm and save money. No one like us getting Thornton last year and he was our best bullpen arm. I have complete faith in Kenny and Coop and now its time to site back and let them work their magic.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 03:27 PM) if we sign bonds, i dont tune in next season. book it. Same.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 4, 2006 -> 01:13 AM) Yeah, just like Miguel Tejada had in his contract year. How about Gary Matthews? Derosa? They aren't even good and they had big years.

I say we keep Vazquez, Buehrle and Garcia. Garcia and Buehrle will be free agents after 2007 so they'll have monster seasons in 2007. Contract year baby. We get another WS ring and call it a day. Put Haeger and McCarthy in the rotation in 2008 and take that $19mil that Buehrle and Garcia left us and either re-sign one of them or get someone else. Don't forget Dye will be a free agent after 2007 too. Thats another $7mil. They'll all have huge years.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Nov 30, 2006 -> 10:32 PM) yep its just speculation at this point. KW didn't deny that he would indeed trade Crede. However, he did say 'at this point Crede is part of the 2007 plans'. I think its well known by this point that Garcia would be the guy KW trades out of the pitchers if an attractive offer came his way. And since Crede's agent is Borass, there might be some releavance to a this rumor. I guess we just have to wait unitl the winter meetings at this point to see what KW plans on doing. Should be interesting...... Wait til Schmidt and Zito sign. Then pitching become even more valuable and teams will get desperate for pitching. Cubs, Rangers, Mariners, Mets and others need pitching and most GMs shoot for today vs. thing about tomorrow (hence the high salaries). If the Sox can then sweeten the deal by including Crede then I'm sure they will.

I think Kenny is just doing this to pressure Crede into signing. Remember last year how Garland and Contreras were both included in rumors then they both ended up signing contract extensions for sub market value?

SoxFan1 - I like your Pipe Dream/XBox GM. I could see it happening too.

Javier Vazquez does have good stuff and is also a head case. But just like most of our pitchers, if you take away 2 or 3 bad starts his numbers look alot better.

The guy has one good year and he breaks the bank. What a crock. GMs are so dumb. They are like rich house wives. Jeff Blauser started all this "contract year" crap. I guess this makes Texas desperate for a CF and they'll be even more desperate for pitching once Schmidt and Zito sign. Then we'll probably see a Sox/Rangers deal.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 03:57 PM) An Offseason of BAD Choices There is nothing Kenny can do now that will make him look worse than Hendry or Coletti. These GMs spend money like Paris Hilton.

If Danks has 4 quality pitches then I don't care what his minor league stats look like. I have faith in Coop taking care of him. Look at what he did with Jenks and Thorton. Two guys that weren't wanted.

I was just checking out the free agent list on Foxsports http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6180634 Looks as if the Giants (if they don't resign anyone) would have over $60mil to spend to match last years payroll. I would be curious as to see these figures for all teams and compare it to what their payroll might be this year. This would tell you who the big spenders would be. Just an observation.

Just remember too, we traded Carlos Lee who was making $9mil, hit .300, 30 hrs, and almost 99 RBIs for Vizcaino 3.75 ERA and Podsednik .244 average. I wouldn't rule out a Dye trade.