striker

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 05:51 PM) Trade away another starter or two from the Sox and I am willing to bet we are no better than 3rd or 4th in the AL Central next year. Pitching is where it's at and we can get all the "potential talent" in the world, but I don't see it helping before a couple of seasons at the earliest. If these other teams need our guys so bad I think we should be gettting more than what we did for Freddie. You wonder when some of them are going to bankrupt anyway at the prices they are paying for mediocrity. I don't understand why you think just because our starters have popular names and big salaries that they will be successful? Getting rid of Freddy opened a spot in the rotation for McCarthy (who just has to have an ERA less than 4.5 to be able to replace Freddy), it brought 2 more possible starters in the future, and it saved us $10million dollars this year. How is this a bad move? Freddy struggled to throw 90mph, Cecil Fielder could steal off him, he was going to want $15mil/year as a free agent and despite winning 17 games he had an ERA of 4.53. What makes you so sure we could have gotten more for Freddy? Don't you think that Kenny Williams knows more about his options then you do? I disagree that pitching wins ball games. GOOD pitching wins ball games and Freddy was no longer GOOD. QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 05:51 PM) Trade away another starter or two from the Sox and I am willing to bet we are no better than 3rd or 4th in the AL Central next year. Pitching is where it's at and we can get all the "potential talent" in the world, but I don't see it helping before a couple of seasons at the earliest. If these other teams need our guys so bad I think we should be gettting more than what we did for Freddie. You wonder when some of them are going to bankrupt anyway at the prices they are paying for mediocrity. BTW, Detroit and Minnesota both won last year because of two young unproven starters, Liriano and Verlander.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 07:48 PM) Sign me up for Hirsch, later JG... I agree though, I'd prefer to develop good young pitching and spend on positions. I agree too. I don't understand how Sox fans can complain about this trade. We had 6 good starters coming into 2006 now we have 5. All we need is 5. But now we also have 2 more pitching prospects.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 11:17 PM) im the opposite, i would rather spend the money on quaility pitching while develop the possition players. Pitching wins championships we saw that in 2005. However, it is important to plug in pitchers from your own system every now and then also. Pitching is over priced right now. There are more cheap bats available than arms.

Just for the record, when the press and GMs talk about payroll I don't think they include cash they received from other teams. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Everyone rips on how dumb Phil Rogers is, now everyone is believing what he says? I don't think KW is dumb enough to get rid of everyone. Their #1 goal is still to win championships.

I don't blame KW and JR. You can't give into the players like other GMs have. Plus, you don't know what Garcia, Vazquez and Buehrle are asking for on their extensions. They may all want $15mil/year, which they aren't worth. I hate to see those guys go but I'd hate to see us spend tons of money on them and have them suck or get injured. Its all a business. If Gary Matthew Jr. and Juan Pierre are making $9mil/year then you know our pitchers are asking for alot more. And they aren't worth it. I would be interesting in knowing how much more profit the team has made in the past couple years. Because I'm also a fan of sharing the wealth.

I like this trade. We get a future starter, a bullpen arm and save money. No one like us getting Thornton last year and he was our best bullpen arm. I have complete faith in Kenny and Coop and now its time to site back and let them work their magic.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 03:27 PM) if we sign bonds, i dont tune in next season. book it. Same.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 4, 2006 -> 01:13 AM) Yeah, just like Miguel Tejada had in his contract year. How about Gary Matthews? Derosa? They aren't even good and they had big years.

I say we keep Vazquez, Buehrle and Garcia. Garcia and Buehrle will be free agents after 2007 so they'll have monster seasons in 2007. Contract year baby. We get another WS ring and call it a day. Put Haeger and McCarthy in the rotation in 2008 and take that $19mil that Buehrle and Garcia left us and either re-sign one of them or get someone else. Don't forget Dye will be a free agent after 2007 too. Thats another $7mil. They'll all have huge years.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Nov 30, 2006 -> 10:32 PM) yep its just speculation at this point. KW didn't deny that he would indeed trade Crede. However, he did say 'at this point Crede is part of the 2007 plans'. I think its well known by this point that Garcia would be the guy KW trades out of the pitchers if an attractive offer came his way. And since Crede's agent is Borass, there might be some releavance to a this rumor. I guess we just have to wait unitl the winter meetings at this point to see what KW plans on doing. Should be interesting...... Wait til Schmidt and Zito sign. Then pitching become even more valuable and teams will get desperate for pitching. Cubs, Rangers, Mariners, Mets and others need pitching and most GMs shoot for today vs. thing about tomorrow (hence the high salaries). If the Sox can then sweeten the deal by including Crede then I'm sure they will.

I think Kenny is just doing this to pressure Crede into signing. Remember last year how Garland and Contreras were both included in rumors then they both ended up signing contract extensions for sub market value?

SoxFan1 - I like your Pipe Dream/XBox GM. I could see it happening too.

Javier Vazquez does have good stuff and is also a head case. But just like most of our pitchers, if you take away 2 or 3 bad starts his numbers look alot better.

The guy has one good year and he breaks the bank. What a crock. GMs are so dumb. They are like rich house wives. Jeff Blauser started all this "contract year" crap. I guess this makes Texas desperate for a CF and they'll be even more desperate for pitching once Schmidt and Zito sign. Then we'll probably see a Sox/Rangers deal.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 03:57 PM) An Offseason of BAD Choices There is nothing Kenny can do now that will make him look worse than Hendry or Coletti. These GMs spend money like Paris Hilton.

If Danks has 4 quality pitches then I don't care what his minor league stats look like. I have faith in Coop taking care of him. Look at what he did with Jenks and Thorton. Two guys that weren't wanted.

I was just checking out the free agent list on Foxsports http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6180634 Looks as if the Giants (if they don't resign anyone) would have over $60mil to spend to match last years payroll. I would be curious as to see these figures for all teams and compare it to what their payroll might be this year. This would tell you who the big spenders would be. Just an observation.

Just remember too, we traded Carlos Lee who was making $9mil, hit .300, 30 hrs, and almost 99 RBIs for Vizcaino 3.75 ERA and Podsednik .244 average. I wouldn't rule out a Dye trade.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Oct 23, 2006 -> 08:11 PM) Wow....Better hope we don't face many lefties. If you replace one of the lefties with a righty then we are lopsided righty. Then you can say "Wow...Better hope we don't face many righties". There is an odd number of people so you are going to be lopsided one way or the other. These are major league baseball players. If they can't hit lefties and righties then they suck. VS. Lefties Crawford .288 Suzuki .352 Pierzynski .270 Thome .236 Do your homework next time. Class dismissed.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 23, 2006 -> 05:05 PM) I would be sad also. But that wouldn't make it the wrong decision if the right deal came along. Agreed. I don't want to see anyone go but if a move will bring us a stronger pitching staff or Ichiro or Crawford then I am for it. This lineup would just be sick. I know I'm dreaming but hey, it's the offseason (for the Sox) CF Crawford RF Suzuki 1B Kornerko DH Thome 3B Crede CA Pierzynski 2B Iguchi SS Uribe LF Sweeney

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Oct 23, 2006 -> 04:31 PM) You are for trading the MVP of the 2005 world series, and a MVP runner-up in 2006 because his value is high. Why? Why do you trade someone just because his value is high? Can KW replace his value in the lineup? Does he have someone waiting in the minors to replace him in RF? Lets say KW traded Dye after the World Series because his value was high, would the Sox even competed in 2006? Ordonez and Thomas were "let go" because of money and injury concerns, not because KW decided he didnt want them. Lee was traded because KW realized he needed to put money elsewhere(catcher, relief, left field, 2nd base), not because their value was high, which is your argument. If I would have said "KW let Thomas and Ordonez go because their value was high", then I would be strenghtening your argument. Right now the return package would have to be incredible for KW to consider moving Dye, and I dont know if there is anyone out there willing to make that deal. I'm not saying get rid of Dye because his value is high. I'm saying that we have holes to plug and Dye is probably our most wanted player because of his abilities and because of his salary. He more likely to get traded because he is a free agent after 2007. He's also an outfielder which are a dime a dozen. I know KW isn't going to just give him away either. KW has always gotten the better end of the deal in my opinion.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Oct 23, 2006 -> 04:11 PM) Yet, Jermaine Dye was the MVP of the World Series That is my point. Who cares what his regular season stats are (2006) if you don't make it to the world series!!! QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Oct 23, 2006 -> 04:11 PM) Do you even remember that? Sirotka was damaged goods, he never pitched in the bigs again. KW was blacklisted for a period of time after that happened. Sirotka was still one of the Sox best players. Supposedly KW wasn't aware of the injury. QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Oct 23, 2006 -> 04:11 PM) And KW ended up with the Comeback player of the year while Rowand broke his ankle. Again, another statement supporting my argument. QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Oct 23, 2006 -> 04:11 PM) He didnt let Lee go. He traded Lee for Podsednik and Vizcaino. Same thing. When he traded Lee did he go? Yes. So he let him go. He didn't release him (I didn't say this). He didn't let him go via free agency (I didn't say this either). Everything you said made my argument stronger.

I know Dye had a great season last year but what are the odds of him repeating it? Remember that we won it all with Dye hitting 31 hrs and 89 rbi but we didn't make the playoffs with him hitting 44 hrs and 120 rbi. Why? Cause our pitching sucked and pitching wins. KW is full of suprises. I remember he traded, what was probably our best pitcher at the time, Mike Sirotka. KW traded the most hard nosed players on a World Series team, Aaron Rowand. KW let three of the most talented players in Whitesox history (Ordonez, Thomas and Lee) go. Don't put it past him.

I know no one probably wants to hear this but I think that Dye could end up being dealt. His stock is high, we have Sweeney/Fields waiting, and we are probably going to go back to small ball (which leaves power expendable). It would make sense to offer him up in some sort of Crawford or Ichiro deal or some deal to strengthen our starting rotation (both of which were our two weaknesses last year). Thoughts?