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WOW so that's KW's plan. He say's it improves defense across the board but that' s assuming Beckham is better then Getz and Teahan is better then Beckham at 3rd. It's possibly true and hopefully true but at this point it's just not true. So it's a fairly young infield with PK being the lone exception and power potential of 15-20+ per man. It would be very hard for any team to take on Konerko's salary . So if he get's traded can't really expect much of anything but salary relief. Anyone think there's a chance of Paulie being non tendered ? Is that even possible and if it is, does that relieve the Sox of any contractual obligations to him ?

Thanks Mike. I'm one of those people who think that it will be the same as last year. I just don't see the Sox throwing away a year of progress . There seems to be a lot of support for Beckham now moving to 2nd base.

The speculation I see most on Soxtalk involves Beckham and Ramirez being moved to different positions . The choices you makes are based on your personal preference and who you think the Sox get in the off season and where they will start the 2010 season. Make 2 choices. Ok please delete this as making the poll questions appear was more difficult than I anticipated ANy help would be appreciated basically 5 choices Beckham at 3rd, SS or 2nd and Alexei at either SS or 2nd.

QUOTE (Tex @ Nov 5, 2009 -> 04:14 PM) The cool thing is thinking about the bands we loved that did not pass the test of time. For me I'm thinking of acts like Joe Jackson Look Sharp!. Boomtown Rats. Teenage Radiation, Leisure Suits. Otis Day. No doubt I would have had them in the top 20 at some point. Boomtown Rats , I Don't Like Mondays gotta be one of my all time fav songs. This will be a hard list to make. Not even sure one big act from the 90's on will even make it possibly U2 though they started earlier than that.

QUOTE (sayitaintso @ Nov 5, 2009 -> 07:35 AM) With the departure of Getz today Polanco doesn't seem like so much of a pipe dream anymore. Alleged departure. But if he is gone there's a big hole at 2nd base which neither Nix , Retherford or Teahan will fill. Still can add an OF/leadoff guy ( Nyger Morgan) and a 2nd baseman with Teahan being a supersub. If Getz really is gone it fits my scenario perfectly.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 5, 2009 -> 10:56 AM) Split stats like that fluctuate greatly from year to year, you can't acquire players based on their numbers with RISP. Did you know Polanco hit .278 w/ RISP and .258 w/ RISP and 2 out in '08? You have to acquire players based on something. He could mentor Alexei, solidify the infield defense while bringing a solid bat and leadership. He's like a lot of players. Stats fluctuate dependent on major or minor injuries but his over all body of work is solid. I know Robbie Alomar crashing and burning must be fresh in your mind but I think Polanco is good for at least another year.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 5, 2009 -> 10:43 AM) This one because Beltre is probably the better bet to come on a 1-year deal. But the problem then becomes, how do we pay him when we just added $4M to Teahen? We've now got about $28.5-30M committed to Konerko, Jenks, Linebrink, and Teahen. No es bueno. Why even worry about payroll at this point ? Either the Sox will increase payroll or dump a guy making beaucoup bucks . You know more is happening so stay tuned , we got all winter.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 5, 2009 -> 10:38 AM) People realize Polanco had a mediocre year at the plate and on the bases in '09 and is not 34 years old, right? 2B typically go down hill very fast especially when they reach their mid 30's. Age is my only concern with Polanco. He's incredibly baseball smart and hit's well with RISP. We need more of that.

If true Teahan brings lefthandedness and versatility. This points to the Sox leaning more towards a rotating DH. I speculated in my thread the the Sox needed to improve the defense and 2nd base was the only logical place to upgrade. You now see this by Getz being the 1st one gone. Though Teahan isn't the upgrade defensively in the outfield I was hoping for, he's still he a big upgrade defensively over Dye. He's 28 so entering the prime of his career so maybe the Cell and that will makes his power numbers better. He is a big guy , 6'3" 210 so he could generate power. I'd like to see a Soxtalk poll seeing who thinks Beckham or Ramirez will be switching positions . I really don't see it happening but getting Teahan just adds fuel to that fire. Nest step sign Polanco . An untested rookie like Retherford cannot be the choice at 2nd base on a team with World Series aspirations. He didn't even get a September call up.

Huge defensive upgrade in RF over Dye, lost our main stolen base threat and Teahen does bat LH.

If true it opens the door for a Polanco signing.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 28, 2009 -> 11:14 PM) I've honestly never seen the benefit of that unless a team had a good enough bench that they were able to rotate guys in an out. I doubt that is the Sox bench this year. Having the DH actually be able to play a bit of defense, yes, I can see that, but if my choice is a guy that puts up an .800 OPS that can play a reasonable amount of defense at 1B, LF, and RF or a guy that can put up an .850 OPS and can't play a lick of defense, I'm taking the .850 every time. The benefit is regulars need rest especially older ones in the greenie -free MLB. Say against righties maybe DH Kornerko and put Kotsay at 1st. Just rotate things depending on matchups. I only suggest this based on my idea of improving the D and something somewhere will suffer . The Sox won't fix every hole in the off season so I choose DH as the last priority but I know many want a slugger . I'm just trying stay reasonable on payroll. Thinking of Fielder or Dunn is like dreaming the impossible dream.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 12:02 PM) I'd love to have Polanco, it just wont happen. That guy is a hitting machine and is the prototypical #2 hitter. Why won't it happen ? He's a free agent . He knows the division and would have a chance to go to a World Series and help a great pitching staff become even better. Do you think he'll just be out of the Sox price range ?

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 01:38 PM) The only way I'd see Polanco coming here is if Getz is moved in seperate deal perhaps to bring in that prototypical leadoff OF or some bullpen depth. KW has many pieces to play with this winter. I remember back in August when we were struggling he said he would love to keep this team in tact, but if they fail to produce, he would "use his imagination to the fullest in the offseason". I don't know about you guys but i think KW will pull off some blockbuster deal this winter. I think you're right though it might not be a true "blockbuster" I can see some big names on the Sox being moved.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 09:30 AM) I have to throw my hat in with the folks who say that the defense should be improved next year even if we do nothing. If ramirez 2010 isn't better than Ramirez 2009 then we're really going to have a mess. Beckham at 3b ought to be better than Fields at 3b + 1/2 season of Beckham rapidly improving at 3b. If Nix is genuinely spending the offseason working at other positions like we've been told, then that'll be an improvement right there. Dye leaving RF replaced by almost anyone should be an improvement. Quentin hopefully healing should be an improvement. Rios in CF should be a major, major upgrade if he sticks there every day. At worst, Getz should be the same 2b he was last year, which wasn't terrible. I'm not going to oppose a move that upgrades the defense, but I wouldn't reshuffle the whole thing just to make a defensive improvement. That was my thinking also. Too many people propose moving Alexei to 2nd and Beckham to short/ 2nd . We saw improvements in Becks and Alexei toward the end of the year . They WILL be playing 3rd and SS end of story. Better D improves an already very good starting staff and could lower a team ERA by .50 to 1.00 as evidenced by the improvement the Rangers made. Think of all the doubles and triples run down by a Rios and Morgan in the outfield together instead of Pods and Dye. Suddenly Linebrink , Pena and other members of the bullpen get better without making a trade. Defense is vastly under rated when talking about improving a team.

QUOTE (qwerty @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 09:13 AM) Lannan has two years of service time and morgan roughly a year and third. Both make peanuts. Lannan would post a 4 plus in the american league, it's not like he is some stud. For the nationals to even consider taking on a player that makes 14 million a season, i cannot see them asking for less then half to be paid. Hudson very well could put up similar numbers to lannan, for less money, while being younger (will be 23 next season). Basically you are proposing to trade our abundance of starting pitching for a lesser pitcher and nyjer morgan. We would no longer have the luxury of sliding hudson into the rotation when someone goes down. Once more we would be back to the old revolving door of fifth starters. No thank you. I didn't like proposing that trade at all. Everyone loves MB. He's a quality starter ,a great fielder, and great at holding runners and picking them off and a huge clubhouse presence. I later said if there's a way to improve the D without touching the starting pitching I'm all for it. But he makes a ton of money , has a ton of innings on his arm and didn't pitch well after the perfect game. He still has great trade value . Waiting one more year to trade him might be a huge mistake. Sometimes you have to give up one huge piece to fill 2 or more holes . He's just the most logical candidate at this point. If we could do that trade without Hudson being included it would look a lot better.

QUOTE (qwerty @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 08:31 AM) Our starting rotation is clearly set, something that not many teams, if any, can match, as it stands at this point. A good dh is absolutely vital to the white sox success. I would argue we need to above average bats to come in this off-season plus at least two arms down in the pen. Konerko will likely never hit much more than 30 in a season again. As far as i am concerned quentin is nothing more a question mark, we cannot bank on his 2008 numbers, as much as everyone here wants to. A happy medium of his 2008 and 2009 season is much more realistic. We lack any legit thunder in the line-up at this point. Replacing dye and thome's production is gonna be quite the task, what they have done while playing in chicago has been taken for granted. How many people in the pen is anyone exactly confident to get outs on a consistent basis? If you add them all up, you may come to about two and a half. Very big problem we have in regards to the bullpen as it stands. There is a reason there is a strong correlation to a good bullpen and in season + post season success. Unless the sox starters go 7+ all season long while limiting the opposition to 3 or less, we would be in just fine and dandy shape. Too bad that is just not gonna happen. Kw has a lot of work to do this off-season to field a championship caliber team, which i cannot see done without four players brought in one way or another (hudson in the pen would drastically help... potentially that is). It will be interesting to see which direction KW goes. If this truly is to be a drug free era then it seems necessary that you keep your older players fresh with a revolving DH. I want to maximize the strength we already have (starting pitching) by improving the D around it. Clearly some areas will be neglected unless we clear some salary . With Polanco and Morgan , defense and speed and veteran leadership is added. That's the kind of ball Ozzie seems to prefer. Power hitting will be neglected yes but they replace Getz/Nix and Pods who's power numbers don't matter anyway. If we fix the defense then after that maybe you can find a lefthanded power bat for DH or fix the bullpen. Put clearly there will be holes somewhere and I'd prefer it to be on offense and hope Beckham , Rios, and Quentin can improve enough not to make the offense a black hole. Put a good defense out there and the bullpen is also automatically improved.

QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 07:56 AM) I'd be against any realistic plan that starts off trade Buehrle.That is the kind of hole digging that just never seems to accomplish anything. I am too. If there's a way to improve the infielder and outfielder D without giving up starting pitcher I'm all for it.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 07:33 AM) Isn't Kotsay considered a better defensive first baseman than Paulie? How about Paulie being the DH? I could see KW staying cheap and going that route. But We would miss Kotsay's value off of the bench. I just don't see the team spending a lot of money this year. I hope I'm wrong! Yes he probably is. As much as Ozzie liked Kotsay he's really only a 1st baseman at this point in his career. Old and slow is not a recipe for a backup outfielder even if his stick is still functional. If the Sox don't want to spend money on the DH then I'm sure PK will be used a lot there if he's not traded. Keeping Kotsay limits the versatility of the bench but getting Polanco and Morgan would go a long way towards keeping Kotsay in the mix.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 07:03 AM) Guys, there is about zero chance that we sign a second baseman. We are young and cheap there with two kids, plus a CJ Retheford in the wings if he wanted. With the other holes on the team, and the tight budget we are going to be looking at, it isn't going to happen. I agree the budget is a major concern , however that just means that one of the high priced vets might have to be moved and unfortunately the most likely candidate is Mark Buehrle . Replacing MB with Hudson would be a huge risk especially with Garcia on his last legs. I wonder if the Nationals would be interesting in moving John Lannan and Nyger Morgan. Would take a decent package of say Buehrle + part of his salary , Getz , Hudson ..more ? I know , I know how could I even think of sending MB to the Nationals of all places ? I have no idea what the salaries of Lannan and Morgan are so I don't know how much salary could be freed up by such a deal. Too bad it seems like we're stuck with Rios.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 07:01 AM) Unfortunately, I don't think you even have the choice. IMO, the Sox need to use their financial resources to fill an OF spot, find a DH, and hopefully bring in a 2nd lefty. I just don't see us having the money to upgrade 2B, especially when we have three cheap options in Getz, Nix and Retherford. Having said that, I can see the value of bringing in a veteran as a stopgap at 2B. However, I think the Sox would have to be pretty sure that Retherford will be the 2B of the future. Otherwise, you have to give Getz the starting spot for development sake. I think finding a DH should be way down the Sox list of Sox needs. Pitching and defense will take them a long way. The development of Beckham , Quentin being injury free , Rios showing signs of having a pulse and a deep bench would go a long way towards rotating the DH position among those on the 25 man roster. This would also give regulars decent amounts of rest in an age when they no longer have the use of uppers to get them through what is a long grind of a season.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 29, 2009 -> 06:47 AM) If Im spending money to bring in a second basemen its for Hudson, no one else on the FA market is worth it. Hudson is the best no doubt but with salary concerns ,signing the best available player at the position limits what you can do in other areas. Polanco is an American leaguer and knows the hitters and knows our pitchers , which helps his positioning, which helps his defense. Hudson would have to rely on advance scouting which a lot of us have had concerns about. These concerns in the past about advanced scouting are in regards to why pitchers the Sox hadn't seen before gave them problems and you can also apply it to why a guy with plus speed like Getz seemed so limited in his range to acquire negative defensive ratings for the year.

QUOTE (tommy @ Oct 28, 2009 -> 11:48 PM) I think a lot of people are really getting used to Getz being our starting 2B. A lot of it comes from the Sox brass mentioning infield shall stay intact. In order to improve the defense, one of the 3 key infield positions (3rd, SS, 2nd) needs to be upgraded. The Sox already have cheap players at all 3 positions and Alexei and Beckham will stay put at 3rd and SS. Polanco would provide a defensive veteran presence among the other 2 young players helping them to settle down and improve defensively along with being at those positions for another year. With the starting pitching the Sox have veteran leadership and improved D could carry them to another title.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 28, 2009 -> 11:36 PM) I think alot of people just see him as too much of an expense at a position that has decent (but definitely not good) options for league minimum. He could be in for a big payday and we have bigger issues (though, if the price was right, he would solve the leadoff spot while playing excellent defense). Hudson fits the bill he just will be more expensive to sign then Polanco will. I see Hudson getting 4-5 years whereas Polanco could be signed for 2-3 years and at less money per year.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 28, 2009 -> 10:57 PM) The article mentions that bullpens are hit and miss from year to year - this is true - but defense is hit and miss from year to year too. Generally, the best will be better than the rest, but a guy like Polanco, even at 34 years of age, is going to start breaking down in the next few years and could become a rather mediocre shortstop. And on top of that, Getz is solid defensively and Nix's scouting report says that he is fantastic at 2B (and though I didn't see much, I did hear that there were some flashes of that this year). A lot of times defense has more to do with putting athletic players on the field and advanced scouting. You can put a world class sprinter in CF, but if he's out of position, he's almost never going to catch a ball. I know you meant to say 2nd baseman. Despite his age Polanco has been and probably will continue to be one of the best defensive 2nd baseman in the game for another year or 2 and is a fine hitter also. Getz fielding metrics weren't that good and Nix can't hit righties at all. With the starting pitching we have now it's imperative to give them all the support they need to do their best and that means putting good D behind them for at least a 2 year window of opportunity . It's still a safe bet that the offense wouldn't be hurt by his presence either. I realize Getz had injury problems that most likely limited what he could produce both offensively and defensively. Despite all the debate about Getz and Nix 2nd base is really the only infield position that's important enough to upgrade with someone like Polanco who won't cost an arm and a leg. Like it or not Beckham and Alexei are entrenched at their positions unless either is traded. Not sure if your reference about being a world class sprinter was in reference to Morgan or just fielding in general and for the most part I'd agree that positioning is important. However world class speed plays a large role in determining range factor which counts heavily in UZR or UZR/150 ratings both of which are excellent for Morgan. It's also not very often that you get that kind of speed with a howitzer for an arm.