CaliSoxFanViaSWside

Really why not ? He's a 2 pitch pitcher now using his best 2 pitches with great movement and has been one of the few consistent relief pitchers around. He's not sexy but his 2020 stats were extremely good. He was among the 3 relievers nominated for Mariano Rivera AL Reliever of the Year which Hendriks won. I wouldn't want him either at $14M but many seem to think he'll go for less than what the Sox paid him last year. Not sure if that will come to pass. Those 2 pitches have above average movement and he induces a lot of weak contact. A good cutter is an awesome pitch. It got Rivera to the Hall of Fame.

So those 9 figure contract offers to Wheeler and Machado were imaginary ?

You beat me to it. I was thinking that the whole time but just catching up to this thread now.

Ahh now I see I wasn't the only one thinking this . I just came up with a more specific way to handle it. I think my numbers on what's owed came up differently. Maybe I should do the math on here and see if anyone can verify my numbers ?

Haven't read the whole thread yet, it grew pretty fast. Here's my deal to the Phils. If I did the math correctly Harper has $274M left on his contract and Wheeler has 96.5 =$370.5M Have them pay off $78M which equals slightly less than the amount the Sox wanted to pay Machado. So we get Harper and Wheeler for the cost of Machado. Have Boston pay off the 1st 3 years of Harpers contract which is the $78M. The back end of that contract is cheaper and essentially he wouldn't be paid for the 1st 3 years (21,22,23 )and the Sox would pay Wheeler's full salary . Keuchel's contract is over after 2023 which would free up $20M from the 2022 payroll. Giolito is also a free agent after 2023 which will subtract whatever Giolito gets in his last year of arbitration unless of course he is extended. By this time some young pitchers of the Sox should be ready to take Keuchel's and Giolito's spots or they get traded off if young pitchers have really advanced to replenish the farm. If need be, if they develop quickly, Keuchel, if he has any value left can be traded earlier. Of course I haven't figured out the whole payroll structure in those years but I am trying to see ways to minimize the impact of those 2 combined salaries. The really hard part is just what do you give up for still taking on $292M, basically digging the Phillies out of a huge hole. Do you really have to give up anyone ? Has anyone ever traded for that much salary before ? Is there a precedent ? It sort of reminds me of the Dodgers getting David Price and the one year of Betts. Boston ate half of Price's salary ($48M) and the Dodgers paid Betts salary ($27M)for a year and Gave up Verdugo (Boston) and Maeda (Twins) in that 3 way with the Twins while the Twins gave up Gaterol to the Red Sox. So the Dodgers took only $75M off Bostons hands while giving up a prospect and a 4th starter who pitched his ass off for the Twins. I have no clue what you give up for taking on $292M. A guy in the DSL just so you can say it was a trade ?

Was it difficult to write that while licking your wife's toes ?

That's exactly how I see it. Obviously being a very good pitcher gave Wheeler the choice of where he wanted to go but as a professional in any sport you have to realize "have gun will travel". If making the decision of location over money makes sense, then you would think he would have a no trade clause.

Locks unless some are traded.

Colome is an easy choice to want back. His last 2 years with the Sox have been pretty damn good especially 2020. He had been good before he came to the Sox . He isn't your high K closer and that bothers people. I did notice when he got to the Sox he became a 2 pitch pitcher, the cutter and 4 seamer. The year before he came to the Sox he was also using a sinker and a change. His 1st year with the Sox was successful but not great. However the bottom line of Saves was very good; 30 saves in 33 opportunities. I think that performance was while he was refining becoming a 2 pitch pitcher. 2020 it looks as though he refined it very well. Again not a high K rate but all other categories he was elite and I don't throw that term around loosely. FIP , WHIP, ERA, BAA, weak contact all outstanding. He saved 12 of 13. If this is the now refined Colome I want more of it. If you then pick up Hand or Hendricks that would be an amazing back end. The only problem I foresee with combining Hand/Hendriks with AC is if one is the primary closer, does it create a problem for the other to be the setup man which would push Bummer down. Or does the manager mix and match all 3 and how does that screw with effectiveness with not having defined roles ? Good problems though with too many excellent relievers.

Nice write up, however I am a little confused by one thing. This is the batting line you sited : "He hit just .285/.397/.297 " . I am confused as to which stats those numbers represent. Normally BA would be 1st but you have it OBP then SLG. but I can't find what your 3rd number .297 is.

For anyone interested in looking at pitchers stats including the type of pitches they throw , how often they use them and how they are hit and comparing all that to previous years you really can't beat Brooksbaseball.net

I use plenty of apps but not a single radio one. If I want music I have my own playlists stored on my devices. If I want Sports I can use free apps on Roku or come to the internet and subscribe to MLB.TV to watch Sox games or listen to radio feeds of other games. When I'm in the car free radio is OK. I've given up on paying monthly bills as much as possible. Phone, internet, rent, gas electric . I do love movies however any getting digital movies as cheap as possible on the secondary market and redeeming them has become something I'm pretty good at.

Is this one of those specific target threads we have to use now instead of the off season targets thread that was closed ? That's 2 threads recently closed where it was just people talking to people about stuff stemming from baseball discussions.

Hey if he's a multimillionaire I want to be his best friend. How you doing @WBWSF. I need a free or extremely low rent housing in a nice area for retirement . Can you help me out buddy. I have always thought that you contributions to this board have been overlooked and greatly disparaged.

True but it is way over the top.

It does even less for the thousands of Sox fans out of state.

That happens a lot too but not a lot we can do about it. Arguments get heated and some people get attitudes about it. It will happen after the Sox makes moves too unless it's Bauer . Even if it is Bauer there will be an awful lot of people calling out those who said we will never get him.

Yea then basically the same thing happens, people talking to people and disagreeing about our acquisition instead of speculating on possible acquisitions.

LOL I just call it people talking to people about baseball stemming from how we view David Dahl as an acquisition.

I think anyone's delay in development makes sense even if you play baseball your whole life. You are among the elite talents in the sport. It takes time to figure things out. Injuries delay that process. It's a more cerebral game than most sports and requires patience . I'm not surprised that baseball is less popular in the computer age when instant excitement is at everyone's fingertips. There were plenty of people worried about Robert when he was in the low minors showing no power . I'm glad we can all discuss baseball here and we are never going to agree with each other on things we all wish would happen . Most of the time I try to keep it in the back of my mind not to be belligerent and not to say things that I wouldn't like said to me. Some times I fail . Some posters don't have a self filter and they hide behind anonymity to let arrogance and ignorance rule their words. If I encounter that type of attitude I respond with that attitude . But prolonged discussions trading snarkiness isn't my style.

Exactly . Projections just take what they have seen so far and extrapolate it into future production, just like anyone who says someone sucks and they will continue to suck. It's a total cop out to support not using your brain to see beyond the numbers. I'll be wrong more than I'll be right using an oft injured player with promise and saying he could become a very good player and Pete will be right more often when he says someone sucks and will continue to suck but that's not exactly the point. The point is that using limited funds on low risk high reward young players is a good way to maximize value for franchises who don't spend the big bucks.. If the Dodgers can do it with guys like Max Muncy and Chris Taylor so can we.

How did you feel about Tim Anderson before he broke out at age 26 ? I remember that Jack. A lot of the board disagreed with your stance on Anderson because he had the tools and he was our guy but his 1st 3 seasons weren't exactly stellar. And in fairness to you plenty of thsi board were super down on Giolito and Moncada after just 1 year in the league. It's super easy to say someone sucks and that's all they will ever be even when they are young. David Ortiz had over 1500 ABs for the Twins before they released him and he went on to become a legend starting with the Red Sox at age 27.

Because players are always who we think they are at the age of 25 . My God I actually used to think you were smart about baseball but to pursue this line of BS you are beyond hope. Tons of guys turn into more than the sum of their stats after age 25. Of course more stay exactly the same and some get worse. How do I know that ? because teams , yes actual major league teams take chances on guys like that and successful teams too like the Dodgers, Oakland , Rays and many more. Or teams just keep them rather than discarding them. Anyone can say someone sucks and be right most of the time. Most of this board said it when the Sox SIGNED McCann and he was older and worse than Mazara. Hell you could have said Tim Anderson sucks after his 1st 3 years until he broke out at age 26.

Ok whats your point ?I know it was a trade. Yes I put signed instead of traded, my temp. insanity. There's really no need to rehash that trade > i did it over and over at the time.

I'm always for low risk high reward types who have already, at a young age, had several promising seasons although cut short by injuries a lot. It's the reason I was fine with Mazara . I never considered him as the primary move because from the beginning of the 5 or 6 posts I made on the subject I knew he wouldn't be ready to actually passed a physical until he was recovered from his latest injury which won't be until February.' I love the guys stroke. He's not even close to a dead pull hitter . He just rolls with the pitch much like we saw McCann and Timmy learn to do and how we've seen Abreu do it from the start of his career. Plus he has no problem elevating the ball which was always the concern with Mazara.