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QUOTE (Scoots @ Aug 29, 2016 -> 11:21 AM) Something to be excited about... Fulmer threw 5 perfect innings for the Knights on Sunday throwing 47 strikes out of 72 pitches, and struck out 5. Maybe the Sox need to use him as a starter rather than a reliever out of the pen when he comes back to the majors. http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/198...s-5-perfect-ip/ He will definitely get some starts in September unless they shut him down before that .

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 29, 2016 -> 10:07 AM) So much misinformation out there on Puig, hard to know where teams really stand. I just know that I will be on record that I'd be all for him. Then again, I've said it for a while and the price I would have paid for him would have been much greater a year ago, so probably a good thing the Sox don't listen to me when it comes to Puig. I do know he is the type of lottery ticket who could be a HUGE HUGE spark plug for the team (if he can play to his tools), but he's also been the guy of declining metrics with injury issues for the past couple of seasons too. Buying low . What could be better ? Rangers bought low on Desmond and he was 29.Our dumpster dives have been veterans on the last legs of their careers. Getting Puig now after some successful seasons in MLB would be fantastic. Think of him as a 25 year old Cuban hitting the open market now . Look at what Rusney Castillo and Yasmany Tomas got ( both more than Abreu). 32 year old Yulieski Gurriel just got 5yr/ $47.5M from the Astros. Puig would only cost around $17.5M for 2 years plus and an arbitration year and whomever the Sox traded for him. That kind of bargain is right up the Sox alley.

Guessing Tradewinds is closed. Didn't expect to see this thread on the main page. Not saying anything else on pitch framing .

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 29, 2016 -> 10:10 AM) If Rodon keeps going like this, and then we get something back from a guy like Miguel Gonzalez, or even Fulmer, I think it makes it easier to move Sale/Q. The Sox will feel like they have the depth to move a guy like that and get all of the offense they can trade for. This is just deja vu all over again. It's exactly the same as last year. In the last 2 months of 2015 Rodon had a 2.28 ERA. He is probably the main reason the Sox haven't burned it all down. If he finds the consistency of Sale/Q over an entire season it's huge. That's what people were expecting this year from him. If you are of the mind that the Sox need to rebuild part of the reason is we didn't get the new and improved Rodon of the last 2 months of 2015 . Now it is happening again and once again it will make it difficult to make decisions concerning 2017. Sale and Q being Sale and Q means 40% of your starters can be counted on.Add Rodon to the mix and its 60%. That might mean an extra 5 wins during the season. That would make the Sox 68-61 this year and right in the thick of things. Rodn becoming what we all think he an be is paramount to the Sox success and that means keeping Sale and Q.

It's great being optimistic but the reality of the situation suggests not to get too excited. The Sox have decent against non AL Central opponents and they were at home. The next series against the Tigers the 1st 2 pitchers will be Shields and Ranaudo. The next 21 games are all against the Tigers, Royals, Indians and Twins 11 which are on the road. Even if the Sox play close games the bullpen is pretty bad. If the Sox could somehow go 5-2 on this upcoming road trip continue being optimistic but just remember how bad the Sox have fared against the Tigers, Royals and Indian so far. The Sox have been hitting pretty good in August but I wouldn't expect that to last. They have proven over the long haul that they are not a good hitting team. There's also a chance the Sox move some guys through waiver trades which would further deplete the line up or pitching staff. The odds are too long to expect anything. Just enjoy the rest of the season as best you can.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Aug 29, 2016 -> 12:20 AM) I'd take Puig if they eat some of his contract. We could sign Cespedes and get the 3 Cubans together. I wonder if Puig would become less of a negative distraction in this scenario. Give them Avi Garcia for Puig with them eating some of Puig's contract. Ok Puig makes about $17.5M for 2 years. It's not all that much. Pretty doubtful the Dodgers eat any of it unless they get someone they really like for less back. Also Cespedes has already said he doesn't plan on exercising his option meaning he will stay with the Mets. That could change of course but how likely is that after he's already said he will stay with NY ? I'd be really surprised if they traded him this year. Even with reports saying he won't even be called up in September they have to know if Reddick continues to struggle or Toles ( rookie OF doing well) fades he'd have to be considered as a replacement.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Aug 29, 2016 -> 06:35 AM) Heard Puig was put on waivers yesterday (Sunday). Have not seen it verified. Nightengale is on MLB network this morning saying it's true . Puig on waivers. Thinks Sox are interested.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 28, 2016 -> 10:15 AM) I'm not gonna argue, Sanchez > Vasquez, but have you watched a Dioner Navarro-caught game for us this season? Also, Sanchez's home run streak is unsustainable. This is a guy who can hit you 15-20 homers a season, not 75 (approximately his current pace). Pitchers will adjust to him. It's not like he was some big time power hitter in the minors. Unsustainable, really ? I know you don't want to argue but I think some fans don't understand pitch framing which is taking a borderline strike and turning it into a strike. I say this because of comments I always see in game threads when a catcher has to move his glove a long way in a fraction of a second catches it in the strike zone because of the pitcher missing badly on location and then whining about how Navarro is a terrible pitch framer . Those kind of pitches are definitely on the ump. I'd say Navarro was/is not a good pitch framer but in the grand scheme I think it's given a level of importance, by the way its constantly talked about, that is way out of proportion.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Aug 28, 2016 -> 01:13 PM) I don't get people's desire to "dump" Melky? Dump one of the most consistent hitters on your team?...mkay. If they didn't trade him at deadline they sure as hell wont trade him now...same with Robertson. I don't have a problem trading Robertson at all...in the off season...but IMO it seems ridiculous to trade one of the better hitters on your team right now for basically nothing. But then again...this is the Sox. Well he's not getting any younger and always best to trade a player a little too soon than a little too late. It's been a pleasure watching him hit and throw out runners this year plus he is a character. When's he's playing poorly a "character" becomes a " clown " on Soxtalk.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Aug 28, 2016 -> 02:00 PM) LOL. Who could ever forget the Cubs 2003 Bartman choke or the Cubs choke last year getting swept 4 games by the Mets. I'm saying it would be better not to have those chokes cemented in the memory of their fans. Beyond that, what is the big deal about just making the playoffs? Do they hand out a trophy for that? LOL Money , son, money. Build buzz, getting noticed nationwide for more than the Stadium name or cutting jerseys and LaRoche Sell more jerseys, more concessions, more parking, more people through the turnstyles all meaning more money to spend on the roster or scouts or international studs. Do it a few years in a row , win a World Series or two, rinse and repeat. Gotta start somewhere.

Rodon did the same thing last year coming on strong which gave many hope for this year. He needs to do it all year long. A very strong 1,2,3 in the rotation makes a hell of a lot of difference.

QUOTE (Scoots @ Aug 28, 2016 -> 11:56 AM) Has anyone heard anything about Hawk's future plans on broadcasting? He wants to continue doing it the way he's doing it.

Bumping because Gary Sanchez was on the Sox radar but Yanks at the time were asking too much for him. Also funny that with Sanchez and Vasquez to talk about Soxtalkers picked the wonderful pitch framer to marvel over. When will you all learn pitch framing is a bull s*** fad that means very little. Umps have wised up to it and its still umpiring strengths and weaknesses that lead to most blown balls and strikes calls. Apparently pitch framing is more fascinating than hitting bombs.

Remember back in July when there were rumors about the Sox inquiring about the red hot Gary Sanchez ? Yankee's asking price was "way too high" according to Sox sources. Yankees were also interested in Sale around the same time. Too bad something couldn't have been worked out. Sox price too high on Sale and Yanks price too high for Sanchez. Guess we know why now.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 08:14 PM) So those reports of the Dodgers trying to give Puig away are all BS. I said those reports were exaggerated in post 63 in this thread. Right now Dodgers are just hedging their bets because Reddick has sucked for them but they have a rookie named Andrew Toles who plays all 3 OF positions and in hitting .358 with a high OBP and OPS but in just 53 AB. If Toles peters out, as sometimes rookies do, they still have Puig to fall back on but they would really prefer not to. They would much prefer Reddick to start not sucking.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 06:03 PM) Dodgers pen has been ridiculous this year, don't think they need Robertson. I wouldn't be surprised to see a team take Robertson with a decent return. Outside of the 3 games where we was either on extreme rest and the game he came in in a non save situation he really hasn't been THAT bad. I know it's cherry picking but when you take out those 3 games he has something like.a 1.64 ERA. Maybe Seattle will take him .Outside of Diaz the Sox did a number on the M's pen.

Thank you Eminor for your contributions . It is greatly appreciated. As you said a lot about WAR is misunderstood and misused and that's what so confusing about it. It just takes too much effort to get a real grasp on what it all means especially when the people qwho talk about are constantly making mistakes. It appears I will remain a dinosaur stuck in the tar pit struggling but ultimately losing the battle.

QUOTE (Scoots @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 06:39 PM) I always liked Q better than Sale. I really hope he gets the Cy Young. He's been so much better and so much more consistent than Sale. I remember a few years ago on this very board I suggested Q may end up being more valuable than Sale. I took a lot of heat for it. I backtracked a bit saying I mostly meant with all the talk of Sale being a high risk arm. But Q is the man. Back then there was always talk that Q wasn't legit , he couldn't keep doing it. Smoke and mirrors you heard a lot in reference to Q but he has just kept getting better and better.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 09:18 AM) What's crazy is we entered the 2016 offseason with two position players coming off 2+ WAR seasons, suggesting numerous places to potentially upgrade. And despite additions at 3B, 2B, SS, CF, & C, the front office was unable to add a single 2+ WAR player. To add insult to injury, the guy they gave the majority of at-bats at DH is sporting an 85 wRC+. How in the world can Jerry Reinsdorf consider these facts and not make sweeping changes in the front office? Well now I am really confused because I trusted the WAR stats Chitown used but now looked it up myself and Fangraphs has Frazier at a 1.2 WAR and Baseball Ref has him at 2.2 WAR. 2015 Frazier 4.5, 2014 4.8, 2013 3.1, 2012 2.6 all per Fangraphs. Baseball Reference is more generous with WAR and just by a casual glance it appears to be wide differences in defensive WAR where Abreu is hurt very badly by the Fangraphs d WAR but not so much by the Baseball Ref. . I think I prefer Baseball Ref. just because defensive evaluations seem to matter way too much on Fangraphs. Of course they calculate WAR differently in other areas too so it's possible I am making a generalization about things I'm ignorant on. I don't think anyone here expected the worst WAR in Fraziers last 5 years. I often have pointed out how the Sox keep acquiring NL players whose stats drop once they get to the AL and I have said they need to start acquiring more AL players and have often been called out on it. But the facts speak for themselves at least for the Sox. And no one bring up Eaton because he didn't have a history of stats of the NL. Until there is some standardized way for calculate WAR I will remain skeptical of it's use.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 08:57 AM) No, 19th in offensive WAR at 1B alone. There are 18 1B who have had a better offensive season. At least according to Fangraphs WAR. Ok then so if Abreu is that bad and Eaton is the only position player on the Sox who's worth anything how the hell are the Sox close to .500 ? Don't tell me 3 players on a whole team can make that much difference ( Eaton , Sale and Q ) I'd include Anderson too but he hasn't been around all year. Every other position player then has to be near the bottom too since no one can even put up a 1 WAR. . The pitching staff as a whole might be considered middle of the pack . Seems to me the Sox should be in Twins, A's territory as far as their record is concerned . Maybe I've been too harsh on Robin. He might be a genius

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 04:59 PM) I thought that was the reason he was drafted originally? He was supposed to be a late season addition to the team while we were making a playoff push a la Jenks. Because there is no reason to draft a relief pitcher high if you are committing to a rebuild. We actually will have a ton of relief arms with some major league experience in play for next season although none have proven to be dominant. Maybe Burdi gets a look at closing not sure Robertson's arm is durable enough to handle it going forward. I am not so sure that a relief pitcher shouldn't be taken as a 1st round pick anymore, just because of what some GM's are giving up for them. It's insane what the elite relievers command in trade value. Trade a couple high end relievers like the Yanks did and wham you can rebuild your farm. All for guys who play maybe less than 5 % of the total innings played ? The Yankees are very smart for trading Chapman and Miller.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 11:33 PM) WAR is just a counting stat. It's not at all saying that Jose Abreu is a worse player than Alex Avila just that all other things being equal for this year that in abstract you'd take a solid defense Alex Avila at catcher with a s***ty OPS than an awful at defense 1B with a mediocre OPS. If Jose could catch and put up and 780 OPS he'd be at 5-7 WAR. Do you even listen to what you just wrote because it's insane and nothing against you at all. You're trying to explain it to me and I greatly appreciate it. But what you just basically told me is a part time , injured catcher like Alex Avila ( all things being equal and in abstract ??? lost me there ) , I'd rather have him than Abreu ?? No , just no I wouldn't not even close. I mean WAR assigns each position on the field some kind of importance level right ? 1st base is at the bottom of the important positions where its crucial to have a very good defender, correct ?So how can being a bad 1st baseman hurt soooo much as to relegate Abreu to barely above league average as a player or is it barely above league average for a 1st baseman ? Because if its as a player how can you tell me with a straight face no less, all things being equal and in the abstract of course, that a platooned, injured, does nothing offensively but take walks, approx 150 AB's but good defensive catcher is worth more (?) than your full time ,2nd in RBI, 2nd in batting average , 2nd in doubles, 1st in OPS, approx 520 AB but bad defense 1st basemen ? I mean you do understand what I am saying right ? People assign money values to these WAR numbers right ? $7/8M per 1 WAR is standard now right ? Would you pay a part time catcher who gets 25-30% of the AB's of Abreu and offensively does nothing but take walks more than Abreu ? Would you be OK with just letting Abreu walk after this year like we all will be with letting Avila walk ? I don't ask all these silly questions to put you on the spot. I'm just really really trying to understand these WAR evaluations. I don't want to be a dinosaur and it's not as easy as understanding the traditional baseball stats. All of a sudden a light hitting defensive whiz like Heyward gets a huge contract based on these evaluations now and even at the age he got the contract his defensive whizardry wouldn't really last all that long,3 /4 years tops and he'll be mostly considered a middle of the pack RF once he losses some range. The thing is, I could never understand the Heyward hype that led to a contract like that from a traditionalists view. Traditionally offense has always been worth more and probably much more than defense.Good offense can probably be maintained for a longer period of time. Good offense puts you in the Hall of Fame . Does anyone think Heyward is a future HOF guy ? Yet he is given a HOF contract. Smething is wrong or agents are behind the creation of WAR . I say that jokingly of course but come on now something is way out of whack here.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 06:15 AM) Just looking at Abreu's offensive WAR alone, he's 19th. Add his bad defense and he logically falls lower. So 19th in the AL or all of MLB in Offensive WAR ? Then add his defense and he's what, the 300th player ? Doesn't sound very logical to me

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 08:35 PM) And this bullpen needs some nights off. They need new arms. That's the only reason Sale was still in there. You bring in a relievers who gives up some runs then its stupid Robin . Sale is the asset here not those pieces of meat in the BP .Sox aren't going anywhere let the pen blow out therir arms not Sale.Robin is in a no win situation.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 08:03 PM) Worth a risk I suppose if at steep discount. Big if. I thought you wanted youth ? Everyone acts like he's an ax murderer . He just a a young rich dude who capitalized on his talent.Probably lacks some social skills and maturity but thats not so terrible and fairly common in sports.