CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jun 3, 2016 -> 10:42 PM) Had the chance to see him from a far when I was covering a Kentucky Derby one year and the other time was just very special. I'd like to pass that along. In 1980 he was fighting the "South American Champ" basically as an exhibition in Louisville so we drove over from Lexington to cover it. We were wearing our white satin "ABC Sports" jackets. Sorry I don't remember the name of the guy he fought. After the exhibition we headed over to the locker room just to see what was going on when Bundini Brown saw us and saw the jackets. When he saw "ABC Sports" on the back he thought it was "Howard Cosell's ABC Sports" out of New York and let us into Ali's dressing room! He didn't realize it was simply the ABC affiliate in Lexington, WTVQ. When we got inside we were able to get an interview with him. I was just shooting it but it was incredible something I'll never forget. Before the lights were turned on and the interview started he was very quiet just relaxing but as soon as the lights came on, he "became" Ali...loud, brash, talking about how he was going to come back and "shock the world again!" I badly wanted to get an autograph but it wasn't appropriate and never had the chance to get that close to him again. Still that was some night. RIP Champ. Mark It's sad when he greatest heavyweight of all time passes away and there's hardly a ripple on here while phony wrestling and MMA thrive. Anyway , that said, I was lucky enough to have run into Ali once in Hollywood. I was in a little bar next to the Pantages Theater and there was a buzz that Ali was down the street. He had just created a stir recently from saving someone's life or something of that nature. Eventually he made his way into the bar and this small bar became very crowded . I couldn't get near him nor was I trying to because I am just not the type to fawn over celebrity's. He was only about 10 feet away from me but I choose to hold my ground and not become part of the throng. I was standing though and I am very tall and the bar had a room length mirror behind it so Ali sees my reflection towering above the crowd and I see him see me. He then turns to me and says " Don't gimme no trouble big guy" . Everyone laughed including me. Then the bartender asked me if I wanted him to get his autograph for me. I said yes and I still have it to this day even though that had to be over 30 years ago. RIP Champ. Edit: I am pretty sure this is the newscast of him talking to a potential suicide guy so that must've been why he was in the public eye and the January 20 , 1981 time stamp on it fits the time frame I am talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV75aFzC1aQ

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 11:36 AM) Sam Panayotovich ‏@spshoot 15m15 minutes ago I'm hearing the #WhiteSox are actively pursuing free agent first baseman Justin Morneau. Cheaper option to fill need for left handed bat. Can't say I didn't see this coming and have been actively wishing for it. Pretty much a no brainer with having to fill more holes.

QUOTE (Knuckles @ Jun 7, 2016 -> 06:34 PM) Gonna have to score 10 to win today. 20 ?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 05:23 PM) At this point, I'm not even sure what you guys are arguing. Sounds like you're just looking at it from your own perspectives and you feel you're both right but there actually isn't any argument to be made, just different equally valid perspectives on the same topic. At any rate, the White Sox have that pitching niche (although not seeing it with Rodon and Carson Fulmer this year yet) and they have that other niche, which is extracting or maximizing WAR by keeping all their players healthy and on the field as often as possible. While you can question the talent selected, at least we haven't had to replace them with a roster of mostly AA/AAA suspects. And 2012 is a good example, we HAD huge surplus value from 11-12 rookies on that roster. We got positive WAR contributions from Youkilis for virtually free for 3-4 weeks there. The problem is that we didn't have the talent overall to beat the Tigers, regardless of our more efficient allocation of resources/WAR. You can argue it was Leyland vs. Ventura or Addison Reed choked or Dunn and the rest of the offense wore down (same with Q in his rookie year). You can argue Cooper got nothing out of Liriano whereas the Pirates figured out a way to completely turn his career around 6 months after Cooper gave up on him and threw in the towel. The argument is basically about supporting the teams current direction as evidenced by trading for Shields vs. questioning that direction and that covers a lot of territory within the organization. Basically it's how the Sox spend their money. It's a subject that can't be covered in lazy sound bites or word bites that a message board usually consists . It's the endless frustrating cycle of not doing enough to have a good minor league system while still having the financial wellness to have a decent major league team. Sometimes the argument strays into using WAR and surplus value but the same problems have existed for many teams since the dawn of free agency. KC ( a close relative of the Sox or slightly poorer cousin ) Hit on their prospects and came very close to winning 2 World Series and spent money to try to extend the run but injuries and looming free agency threaten their success this year and beyond. They and their fans suffered for many years ( we all know something about that) . Opportunities are limited when finances are limited. This makes the need for a strong minor league even more important.Good young talent is better than old good talent because they cost less. It's really that simple. Shields represents the recent Sox philosophy of throwing money ( no matter how good the value appears to be ) at the wrong thing especially when their recent attempts at doing so have had poor results. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So really we are talking about the insanity of the Sox front office.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 05:02 PM) Pretty good segment on MLB Now today. http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/49502780/v782...quiring-shields I watched it then the one after it where Adi Wyner talked more extensively about pitch framing. Lets just say it made me smile when he finished up by saying he didn't think it was as important as other sabermetricians seem to think. I' ve argued many times that its flawed just from a common sense standpoint without a math background.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 02:41 PM) These are the two major points. Drafting and developing. I think it's the developing. Early in the KW tenure they drafted high floor low ceiling guys. It didn't work. They made some changes and started drafting Low floor high ceiling guys. It still hasn't worked. They need to somehow come up with the formula to get these to work together. If someone made this argument to fire the front office I wouldn't disagree. And there's the whole Dave Wilder situation. Many many Dominicans went on to become stars.How many did the Sox have. None that I can recall. Sox seemed to think Venezuela was the place to be because of the past results maybe. Luis Aparicio, Chico Carrasquel, Freddy Garcia, Ozzie Guillen Magglio Ordonez. Even now they have Quintana, Carlos Sanchez, Avisail Garcia and Dionner Navarro all from Venezuela.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 02:41 PM) Sure, but if I had nothing good to say about my girlfriend ever and she brought me zero joy, my guess is she would no longer be my girlfriend. Whats the point if she makes you miserable? He never said he was miserable, you did. He's just speaking his mind on something he cares about and he is far from alone in that respect if you look at the titles of many of the threads. Do you ask the question to all the people who want to fire Ventura or think Abreu has been figured out , why Rollins is DHing , why Sands is on the roster, or saying the bullpen was smoke and mirrors ?

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 02:02 PM) Honest question - its obvious you have so much hatred for the White Sox - why don't you just give up caring, or find another team to cheer on? Again, honest question - no sport/hobby should make you as miserable as you appear to be towards the Sox, so why spend so much time loathing over it? Question might be honest but its fully loaded. Do you agree 100% with your wife or girl friend ? Ever have heated arguments with them ? Your kids ? All relationships are filled with angst. Does that mean you hate them or love them less ? Are you a miserable person because you disagree with them ? I know it's sports and not an interpersonal relationship but it's a relationship none the less.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 01:24 PM) If Shields gets here and rebounds back to a near career normal level, his value will go up for sure assuming the Sox pass along the money from the Padres in a deal. Talk about pie-in-the-sky thinking...I'd bet you dollars to donuts that doesn't happen . But yes hopeful that they get him to throw more pitches that give him a pretty good ground ball rate. His walk rate is also up so maybe he's already doing that and his other pitches are the ones being tattooed over the fences. It's good to be optimistic.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 01:41 PM) Right on the money I didn't realize I had such an ally! Sox should have spent the Laroche savings on the international market. They are nowhere to be found. It's not that I am an ally ( so to speak) . It's just that plenty of what you say makes sense. People here get sick of it but no law against you speaking your mind. It's very hard to choose between winning now and building for the future and often difficult to do both at the same time. I just have seen the Sox make so many moves for vets and it not working out that it's easy to get jaded. Must have given up 75 years of cost controlled guys for about 20 years (and millions of $) of vets over the past 5-6 years. Smardzija, Dunn, Swisher, LaRoche and others. I can't blame you for banging the drum so loudly . It's just how this franchise is. Maybe we'd love to operate like the Dodgers and Cardinals but those teams have rabid fan bases . We keep hearing over the last few years that less and less revenue is tied to attendance but on the South Side it sure doesn't seem like it. Without money from fans , TV or corporate sponsorship the team is 2nd best in its own city . If you were a corporation and had money to spend would it be here or on the North side team? Pretty easy decision. Seems as though ownership has decided the Sox can't hire the best talent evaluators and create a well funded minor league system without it hurting the major league team and that is what's truly unfortunate about being a fan of this team.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 12:45 PM) RF Eaton 2B Tim Anderson 1B Jose Abreu DH Melky Cabrera (Hayes/Coats) LF Ian Desmond/Fowler/Trumbo or Michael Saunders (trade) CF Trayce Thompson SS Marcus Semien C BLACK HOLE 3B Juan Uribe (Davidson/Trey M./Delmonico) UTIL Saladino Now that team has much more balance, although it's a bit light in homers in the clean-up spot with Frazier removed...seemingly, you've got 5-7 to more than make up for that, and Uribe has occasional pop too, even at his age. And it would have four home grown players as well as one of my personal all-time favorites in Juan Game Winning Uribe. I'd MUCH MUCH rather watch that team from a fan standpoint than what we have right now (much younger, more dynamic/exciting/athletic). The bottom 3 would still be relatively weak, but it would have offensive pop and not be 600-650 OPS weak. Plus, you'd still have Montas in reserve to throw into the bullpen or save having to trade for James Shields. And you'd have a lot more financial flexibility and future years of control, to where you wouldn't have to tear things apart after 2017. I know you sort of picked and chose things to have fun with it. And you sort of deleted Avi and Lawrie from the mix. Imagine getting Inglesias instead of Avi. Would Bassitt had hurt his arm with the Sox ? Probably. Would Phegley be a backup catcher? With the added financial flexibility of that team do they sign Cespedes ? Would they still have Gio Gonzales? You can create endless scenarios based on trades you did keep like Eaton and trades not kept like Avi and Lawrie and the Smardzija trade.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 12:54 PM) They didn't give up anything of note. Tatis is a long shot to make the majors by 2020 and EJ was done here and had no value. They got a solid #3-#4 starter that eats innings and he costs around $10 million per season. That's what those guys cost. He's also an asset moving forward because of how much the Padres are playing. The trade was a no brainer. Complaining about it is in fact quite stupid. Obviously you can't see the forest for the trees and are rude to boot. I have no problem with the details of the trade. Decent value no doubt but its the over riding presence of the Sox continuing to deplete their Minor league system and the continued reliance on over the hill vets to try to make the playoffs this year and next with hardly anything to look forward to unless a whole new team of failed minor leaguers and more washed up vets appeals to you. Johnson had value because the Padres thought he did and why you picked 2020 as a date for Tatis is beyond me. He'll be 21 then . There's also the fact that people might think the Shields money ( or any money) might be better spent on the international youngsters while many of the teams who went spend crazy are punished for doing so. Good teams stockpile young talent and have thrown stupid crazy money into the kids from the DR and young Cubans. The Sox do nothing but the bare minimum in that area. But yea go ahead keep looking at the trade in a vacuum for its value for a declining innings eater in a desperate attempt to make the playoffs for a year or 2.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 12:31 PM) It is very fair to look at this as a free agent signing for 2017 and 2018, in addition to being a trade for 2016. I know the Shields contract goes through 2018 but I only said 2017 because many guys will be free agents after 2017 unless somehow the Sox resign them and Shield will be a 36 year old starting pitcher who is already trending down. I shudder to think how bad he might be in 2018. Hoping for the best through 2017 though.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 12:37 PM) Davidson hasn't worked out (although he's having a good year). Eaton has been very good. Avisail is part of the Rodon, Montas, Wendelken. Montas was a top 50 prospect and part of the Frazier trade. Wendelkin was part of the Lawrie trade. Rodon can't hit. I assume that that you wanted to KEEP Peavy on that 62 win team????? Whatever that trade was, it brought back a lot more value than a year and 2 months of Peavy would have brought to the major league club. De Aza, Rios and Beckham were dumped for nothing. What they got were not real prospects. Maybe they should have gotten something better, maybe they shouldn't, but there's nothing for me to defend because none of those prospects were held in any regard by anyone. Okay. Nothing for nothing. And? I'm sorry - you're telling ME, ME that we should have kept Trayce Thompson? What do you think I've been talking about every day? I don't know how you misunderstood my intent in making my comments to you. I am actually supporting you . I must have made 5 posts during the off season about trying to get Trayce back. Maybe you are so used to being attacked around here you automatically think you are under attack. I hope you have read the post I made after that regarding the Shields trade. Maybe that will make things clearer. I took my share of grief also for also liking Montas while everyone else was thinking Fulmer was awesome . I didn't understand why Mpontas was being pegged as a reliever whereas so many thought Fulmer had the better shot at being a satrter. Both had critics who saw them as future BP pieces but somehow around here Fulmer got all the support.

QUOTE (MnSoxFan @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 11:37 AM) Under one transaction, the Padres signed him as a Pitcher. Maybe a typo. March 1, 2016 San Diego Padres signed free agent P Janigson Villalobos to a minor league contract I found that under http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?playe...tching/2016/ALL I saw that too but was convinced he was a catcher and based on the facebook stuff I am now sure of it.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 11:35 AM) White Sox got an innings eating middle of the rotation starter for below market value and gave up nothing to acquire him. Of course people are angry. People are stupid. I wouldn't go so far as to say they are stupid. That is rude and ill informed. It's basically a move for this year and next year. It seems as though many moves the Sox have made have no future beyond 2017 and that's the whole point All have been patchwork moves giving up talented cost controlled youngsters who do have futures that will vary greatly but have a chance to be better. How have all these moves worked out the past few years ? Are the Sox any better now than they might be if they had just kept some of these kids ? Hard to know, but it's just seems as though the Sox are spinning their wheels the past few years while giving the fans nothing to look forward to .

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 09:23 AM) We'll see. If he performs as you suggest AND the Sox at least seriously contend for the playoffs, the trade will have worked. But I think the only way this team contends is to do what this board has been begging them to do - trade any prospect necessary (with the requisite holdback of Anderson) for Brewers, Reds and Rockies. And it will be all or nothing for 16 and 17. And then nothing for a long time. Me, I wish they had continued what they started in 2013 for 2 more years: a sensible build-up of organizational depth. that would have allowed for contention for years to come, starting in 17. Help me out here GreenSox. How many young guys have the Sox traded for in the last few years. I can think of Davidson , Eaton , Avisail Garcia and Michael Ynoa. Nevermind I'm looking it up.Got a couple of stiffs for DeAza who are no longer in the org. August 2014. Frankie Montas, Cleuluis Rondon and JB Wendelken in the Peavy trade. Rondon is the only one left . Tommy Kahnle from the Rockies, Conor Gillaspie from the Giants and Ranaudo recently from the Rangers though basically all of these guys were just very minor deals , minor leaguers for minor leaguers. By the way who is this 25 yr. old hitting .279 .362 OBP 9 HR's .566 SLG and .928 OPS. If the Sox had this guy do you think he would be considered the most offensively well rounded player on the team with those stats ?

Per MLBtraderumors.com : The White Sox have signed free agent catcher Janigson Villalobos to a minor league contract, the team announced. Villalobos, 19, is a native of Venezuela. Anybody know anything about this kid ? Looks like he was on the Padres DSL team. Listed at 5' 9" 195 .

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 6, 2016 -> 08:23 AM) Other than the support of the entire baseball team? I don't understand your point here. You think firing Robin would mean the whole team wouldn't support Renteria as their new manager ?

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 09:02 AM) Flipping through the channels last night and saw an interesting piece on Jose. Apparently he saw the most fastballs Wednesday against the Mets than in any other game in his career. According to the story he was late on every single one. They showed in slo-motion and stopped the video to prove their point. Even his sac fly they said he was late. They can't explain why suddenly he's behind on fast balls and said he may have to start 'cheating' getting his swing begun earlier to get around on them. The problem with that they said was that pitchers then will start throwing him sliders and he'll be out in front. They said the Sox should be very concerned about this. Mark Sounds like a timing mechanism thing to me. Maybe weight transfer is off or whatever timing mechanism he used in the past is off. They've probably already looked at video but something needs to be discovered . Really need to go over the videos from the past comarped to now and check every little thing.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 01:45 PM) Why is he horses***? He should be in the prime of his career. I remember something in the off season about Jose working out or getting in shape or something that wasn't in his normal off season program. I said something like Jose Abreu shouldn't change anything. There's nothing wrong with his 1st 2 years. I sure hope he hasn't worked too hard in the off season or become more muscular and lost his flexibility. I think he will come around but it needs to be very soon. If the last 3 games are any indication it may have started already.

Remember when the Bears fired a coach because he couldn't beat Green Bay ? Maybe the guy before Lovie and Lovie came in saying his first priority was beating Green Bay. Sox take a cue from the Bears and pretty much every team in sports. If you can't beat your division foes you can't win. It's that simple. Fire Robin and I don't expect that to turn things around, it's just a change is needed NOW !

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) I am not sure when the last time we have had a minor league player brought up that has made a quick impact. Trayce

QUOTE (harkness @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 08:07 AM) well... Abreu has not been himself at all. This is ONE of the reasons we are one of the worst teams in the majors as of late. However there are many other issues. Abreu didn't lose the KC series... Against KC in the last series we were swept 1 for 12 in the middle of the order in 3 games we lost by a total of 4 runs. Also missed the ground ball in the big come from behind walkoff win. No RBI's no extra base hits. He sure as hell didn't help .

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ May 28, 2016 -> 04:53 PM) You do realize Shields' deal for 2016 , 2017 and 2018 is $21M per year for those 3 years don't you ? I know it would most likely be prorated for the rest of this year but that pretty much takes care of the $13M from LaRoche unless the Sox get the Pads to eat the rest of this year in exchange for the Sox picking up the next 2 years or something of that nature. Like I said in a previous post I'm hoping for 15-20M eaten by Pads but not hopeful on that front. Really hope this doesn't happen at all. Sox did even better than I thought they would on getting SD to pony up cash. Turns out it s not a bad deal except for how many years . This year and next would be much better than this year and the next 2 years. But I'm good with it. Now get a bat damn it .