CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 24, 2016 -> 06:53 AM) Not scientific, but probably the majority of people on Sale's side are under 30, probably much younger. Eh we all have b****ed and moaned about Sox management . I can only imagine being a player wondering what the f*** are they doing. A highly competitive person often gets angry under those conditions. It's not right what he did but it's also understandable. I am sympathetic to him but wish he'd find another outlet for his anger and come to his senses and apologize. I am sure he regrets it already.

QUOTE (Insp @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 06:40 PM) Has Sale become such a basket case that he can't accept wearing some of the historic jerseys from the team's past? If by historic you mean one of the ugliest pro sports jersey's ever created.

An Avi HR ? An Avi HR !!

QUOTE (TitoMB @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 05:49 PM) so they switched? I read Sale was upset about the s***ty '76 jerseys. Too much starch in the collars.

If true Reinsdorf will be selling those jerseys for White Sox charities soon.

Jennings due to come in but rain delay. Sox ahead 2-1 On 2 base error on Castellanos on a shot by Frazier, Saladino infield single. Avi RBI sac fly to CF. Saladino steal of 2nd which actually was a heads up play where he might have been looking for a ball in the dirt and once he saw it took off and Saltalamacchia didn't catch it cleanly. Then with Saladino running Castellanos heads in towards third to cover it on the stolen base attempt and Navarro shoots a double right past him for an RBI.

Wondering which position player will end up pitching today ?

Now no one cares about the game, Albers pitched yesterday and he's starting. Yikes. This will be brutal.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 07:10 PM) Adolfo was #2 on mlb.com list when the Sox signed him. Sox finished 2nd on Soler and offered $25 million and wanted Puig prior to Dodgers signing him. They've shown interest in top guys before. A #2 prospect for $1.6M . Compare that to a real top guy like Moncada who the Red Sox basically spent over $60M on. Coming in 2nd on guys is just typical Sox. Day late and a dollar short . Is that real interest or token interest ? Got any excuses for the lack of Korean or Japanese guys ?

If Q continues to pitch well in the years ahead the Sox have options on him for 2019 and 2020. Profar will be a fairly young free agent in 2020 and Boras is his agent. Q has more years of control than Profar. Nuff said .

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 07:14 PM) Velocity down a bit? Wouldn't have guessed Turner would throw harder than him tonight. Command was off.

See Fulmer wasn't sharp as I said.

QUOTE (Insp @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 07:09 PM) Amazing.....that little Frenchman swinging one of those long loaves of French bread that do not come with any wrapping just got a HR. If you want to cal 6'4" 220 little...

I'm gonna give Robin some credit for mixing up the lineup a bit against Fulmer. Melky/ Morneau 3/4 was good.

Oh hell yes Morneau ! 3 run bomb and Sox take the lead.

Abreu's been stuck on 11 HR for a while. Time for 12.

That's Ok Frazier the Sox don't need a walk against a less than sharp Fulmer.

Conpletly fool VMart on the 1st pitch. Clearly he was looking outside . Albers throws a great pitch on the corner and bad ump calls it a ball.. Why doesn't Narvaez get that call ? Is he bad at framing too ?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 06:10 PM) And when Ranaudo s*** the bed you would wonder how they can bring up a guy wth an ERA over 17 . Most teams aren't 7 or 8 starters deep. Bringing up Turner to start was a pretty curious move considering he would have to be DFA 'd if you want to return him to the minors. With a guy who throws as hard as him maybe you don't want to DFA him and instead can use that heat in the pen. Ranaudo was the smart move . I think he gets claimed since he has a live arm if DFA'd

Umpiring at home plate is terrible.

QUOTE (Policiious @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 11:49 AM) Rodon is cheap and under team control but he has not shown me much. What about Saladino and Garcia for Hill, Garcia is on almost everyone's exit list and Saladino will not be a starting position player for this team. Yeah next year's FA pitching class is not much but IMO the Sox have a better chance of resigning Hill if he's on the team for the 2nd half of the season expecially if he has a quality receiver to throw to in Lucroy. WS have 2 ACE starters, most MLB rotations have none. Getting Hill to add to Sale & Rodon gives Hahn the flexibility to trade Quintana who is way under paid and should get the Sox at least 2 starting position players with good bats in return. Lucroy is a terrific Catcher with a quality bat and while Braun is on the wrong side of 30, he is still playing at a high level, maybe you ask for a 3rd player (prospect) from the Brewers. Add Lucroy and Braun to this lineup and it is much improved which will take some of the pressure off the pitching staff since they won't have to throw the perfect pitch all the time to win. Trade for Hill and you have a Sale, Hill, Shields and Rodon rotation for the rest of this year; very solid. Remember also that lots of salary is coming off the payroll this offseason (Latos $3M, Rollins $2M, Rodriguez buy out $1M,likely Morneau $1M, Danks $15M plus the Sox have another $13M back early by 1 year because the DH who couldn't hit retired) that's $35M That's $ that can be spent on Shields (if he decides to stay, if he opts out then the Sox have another $10M at least to spend) and/or Hill plus any talent they get in trade for Quintana. This team needs postion players who can hit and trading Quintana the only way to get them besides trading Sale which is a non starter for me Re: Rodon his last 8 starts last year showed his enormous potential when he had a 1.81 ERA . If he can tap into that potential more consistently he's a huge force going forward. Many hoped that would happen this year. It hasn't but considering he is still very raw as an ML pitcher it should come eventually.

Thanks . I know Navarro is not a particularly good catcher. If he was hitting well we'd probably hear less about his framing abilities or lack thereof. Because pitch framing is a thing the more casual fan will see a strike called a ball and auto- assume it's on the catcher now and that is not always the case.

QUOTE (michelangelosmonkey @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 01:25 PM) I think people are too pessimistic here. Since 2005 the World Series has been won four times with teams with dominant starting pitching (Sox and the Giants three times). The Mets gave a black eye to the Cubs because dominant starting pitching can beat dominant hitting. The White Sox had no choice to follow the path they are one because the stumbled upon Quintana, Sale became one of the best pitchers of all time, and they got lucky drafting Rodon. Now they look like they may have gotten lucky getting Fulmer as well. I'm not saying it WILL happen...but lets say in 2017 Rodon improves to Quintana level and Fulmer starts and is Rodon 2015...and James Shields or Gonzalez pitches the way they have in July. You will all agree the defense is WAY better this year than it was last year. You have Austin Jackson and the two catchers done after this year which frees up $11 million in salary (along with adam Laroches $12 million already in your pocket). You resign Frazier (I'm fine with a good fielding 3b who hits 40 home runs but only hits .220) and then sign Lucroy (still need a catcher as Collins is probably a few years away). Why is that not one of the best teams in baseball...or at least a team that can get into the playoffs and then throw four aces into every round of the playoffs? The idea of trading for prospects is exciting as potential is so tantalizing but 2015 #2 BA prospect was Byron Buxton who has a .580 OPS after his first 300 MLB at bats. We need to be patient...building a championship is a long process and I think we have come a long way in three years. You make a lot of sense. I have struggled with the idea of a tear down also. I'll post about which organizations would be a good fit to trade Sale or Q but then turn around and say if Hahn had signed Ian Desmond and Dexter Fowler , guys that were easily obtainable late in the off season how good is this team then ? Or perhaps Daniel Murphy who as a 30 year old signed just a 3 year deal with the Nats( not some mega 6 year deal) and is having a career year. He's that LH middle of the order power bat we needed, Fowler the OBP and speed in CF we needed. Desmond also a cheap signing for depth who ends up getting his career back on track could have played SS which the Sox also needed or DH'd or converted to OF like the Nats did with him. Things could have gone much better this year. You add those guys and Rollins isn't signed, Avi spends the year in the minors, Sands isn't on the roster. Do I expect Hahn and the boys to make perfect moves ? No but I expect them to be better than they have been. They have to remember too much talent isn't a bad thing.

QUOTE (SI1020 @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 10:37 AM) Excellent post. Whether one agrees or not it is definitely worth a read and you deserve credit for an in depth analysis when attentions spans get shorter and shorter. I bolded the part I especially agreed with. A few years ago I sent baseball-reference.com a lengthy note expressing my misgivings with sabermetrics, doing my best to give chapter and verse on specific examples and areas of disagreement. This was after noting that they had completely revised their pitching WAR and D WAR stats, pitching WAR at least twice. In reply I was given a terse condescending reply and I learned my lesson. Don't try to debate this as you're dealing with the fervor of fundamental religion. I dislike sabermetrics and especially despise defensive metrics. I will look at OWAR and Pitching WAR but don't give defensive WAR the time of day. As for pitch framing stats I'm not even going there. That being said, as one poster has mentioned Navarro has made me miss Tyler Flowers who ironically was rated to be among the best at framing pitches. In any case, that is way down the list of what I expect and hope for in a catcher. Regarding the pitches in question I am on the fence as to whether Navarro could have done a better job at helping Robertson, who needed all the help he could get in that inning. Again, thanks for a noble attempt at taking the debate to a higher level. Thank you for reading it. I spent a lot of time writing it and watching the pitches I mentioned in slo mo frame by frame on my DVR. I know I rub people the wrong way with constant questioning of pitch framing. I could've wrote even more citing others who question it, not just laymen like me but the same kind of guys who came up with it in the 1st place. But then again others rub me the wrong way by constantly referring to pitch framing as if it is the end all be all of what's important in a quality catcher. Even fangraphs had a more recent article about the better framers stats getting worse because umps are wising up. I could have pointed out that the curveball was out of vogue for a while when the split finger pitch came into vogue and part of the reason was because it's just a very difficult pitch to call right. I have been a keen observer of baseball for many years and even before pitch framing became a thing I thought umps were very poor calling pitches strikes that end up in the strike zone but miss their spot. It's just lazy umpiring focusing on where catchers set up more than on the strike zone itself and the height of each batter to establish that zone . Again thank you for your kind words.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 10:09 AM) Just a small addendum. Sale's 2019 option has already risen to $15 million due to a clause in his contract that was triggered by his 3rd place Cy Young finish two years ago. If he wins a Cy Young in the next 3 seasons that option jumps to $16 million. Quintana has the same clause in his contract as well. Thanks. Guess they didn't update the details of his contract on his Baseball Reference page.