AddisonStSox

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 22, 2005 -> 12:33 PM) The sox probably won't have a real "pennant race", in that they won't be slugging it out to the end. Barring a total collapse, they'll make the playoffs. For that reason, having the stronger bullpen [and with Hermy's back problems, and no Shingo] adding to this area for a short series, where Wagner can pitch in 3, 4 games, IMO makes the Sox stronger. Burnett may only throw in 1 playoff game. Burnett may not even be better than Jose or El Duque for one game. Maybe over the course of two months, he could be. But Burnett could and does get pounded. So he's no sure thing. Wagner, on the other hand is a sure thing. So I'd like Wagner and another #1 or #2 type hitter who can take over at SS. Excellent points. I feel for Mr. Williams. I can only imagine what he is going through right now. Hopefully, he has one of these grand plans all figured out and all he needs is some time and cooperation to make it happen. I just think he'd have an awfully hard time getting Burnett, the most coveted, attainable SP at the deadline, on the roster only to ship him elsewhere.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jul 22, 2005 -> 12:23 PM) If we traded for Griffey I would not be able to speak for a week. I would just walk around smiling. He's been my favorite player my entire life. I'm not going to lie, you were the poster I had in mind when reading/posting this little diddy.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 22, 2005 -> 12:22 PM) If the sox could deal for a LOGGY, like Scott Eyre or Ron Villone to replace Marte, sure. Prospects could probably be used to acquire this type of guy. But the Sox keeping Burnett?! That's where I jump off. The sox should move him for other pieces Alright, beck, then I pose to you the orignal question: Do you think the Sox would be better suited to have a stronger SP taking the bump every fifth day in the midst of a pennant race or move said stronger SP for bullpen help, another bat, etc? I mean, then we are thinking Wager>Burnett? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...boy, I dunno. Tough one. Personally, I'd rather have the stronger arm to get us to the later innings than rough it with our current starters.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jul 22, 2005 -> 12:19 PM) given the ever evolving closer situation with the sox, and I'm not complaining about that since it's worked out just fine, I believe that it's going to be closer by committee in the second half to give Hermie a break now and again, with Cliff and Damaso taking the bump in the 9th on occasion. Works for me. Yikes. Well, there, I'm going to have to disagree. If we are arguing Marte should not be involved in a deadline move because of his ability to close ballgames, I'm going to have to disagree. If you would argue his value rests in his ability to bridge to gap to the ninth inning, getting both RH and LH out, then I'd understand. But, I don't think you hold onto Marte because he can potentialy take part in a closer by committee situation.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 22, 2005 -> 12:17 PM) Damaso was unhittable one game this yr. And 2, 3 yrs ago. Last yr and most of this yr he hasn't been the same pitcher. Cotts is young, cheap and has more upside than Marte. Beck gets it. If Neal continues to progress at the rapid clip he has been, does he somehow make Marte expendable in a deadline move? I don't know. I don't know if Kenny knows. I'm not one for trade-talk, but this does offer a really, really interesting discussion.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jul 22, 2005 -> 12:15 PM) I think Damaso is a dominant left hander who would be sorely missed in any run for the playoffs. I'd much rather lose Cotts before Damaso. When he's on he's virtually unhittable. Ultimately, that is the basis for this question. Would the Sox be in a better position to win a pennant race with a stronger SP starting every fifth day or a lefty-arm in the pen that, at times, could be invaluable with his ability to lock things down and bridge the gap to a closer.

Now, take away the thoughts of whom the Sox would have to trade for Junior Griffey, his contract, etc. and just read that bottom line. Damn. I couldn't stop giggling. I know this is entirely conjecture, but god damn if it didn't bring a smile to my face. Chances of this happening, however: slim to none and we all know where slim just went.

Rather than start another thread or something, I'm just going to throw this scenario out there: If, by some grace of God, the Sox can center a deal for Burnett around Brandon McCarthy and Damaso Marte, then sign a lefty the likes of Embree or someone else off the scrap heap, would you make the move? IMHO, Burnett+Embree>>>McCarthy+Marte I'm going for broke in 2005.

That's it...I just can't stand it any more. I have to do it.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 22, 2005 -> 11:40 AM) It cracks me up more if someone thinks that Ozzie is actually a superior in-game manager. That aspect is definitely not a strong suit of his. Oh, no, don't get me wrong, I think Ozzie will get absolutely spanked in the playoffs ala Manuel v. Pinella, but the team is 30 games over and I don't think a poster on a White Sox message board is in any position to critque the manager of the best team in baseball. If you haven't learned yet, it's best just to sit back and watch Ozzie, Kenny and co. work their plans out to completion before we start throwing them under the bus.

Nothing doing. Not worth getting worked up over.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 22, 2005 -> 11:29 AM) Here's just a quick summary of how I feel with things (just to let some people know that I am indeed a Sox fan). If you would have told me before the year that we'd be 10 games up with 68 games left in the season, I would have been absolutely thrilled. I would have been so happy with that lead, even if the Sox had lost 20 games in a row. Lets face it, if we can't hold onto a 13 game lead with 71 games left for not only the AL Central, but the Wild Card as well, then we don't deserve to make the playoffs. For some reason, last night's game didn't even piss me off that much, as not once did it feel like the Sox were going to win it. You drop a routine foul pop up against one of the 10 best hitters in baseball history, and you deserve to lose. Now, by no means do I think it's a lock that the Sox will make the playoffs. I don't think it's too negative for me to say that you'd have to be kidding yourselves if you really thought that this team was as good as it's record shows. We've been so incredibly lucky in at least a dozen of games this season that we could have easily lost. As long as we take advantage of breaks in the 2nd half, we should be ok. We're not the type of team that can get away with bad defense in one game, and still coast to victory. Some advice I'd give to Ozzie: It's ok to trust your bullpen to get key outs earlier in the game than the 7th inning. Cotts, Marte, Cliff, and Dustin have been great this year. It's not a crime if you let them start the 7th inning of a game, and take the starting pitcher out BEFORE he gets in trouble. Ozzie always tends to leave his starter in too long (rather than take him out too early), and it's been catching up to the Sox lately. Also, it makes no sense to be playing smallball at the Cell when it's hot outside. We're not going to win 2-1 games at the Cell like we did when it was cooler out. The ball flies out of the Cell, and there's no reason to be playing smallball prior to the 7th inning. Now, lets go out and start winning some home games. BTW, if you're feeling down, check out the Twins schedule the rest of the way. It's just as difficult as the Sox schedule. ...cracks me up. The Sox are 30 games over and everyone's an expert. At this point, anything short of an AL Central Division title and I'm devestated. Just a quick thought for those concerned about shaking up the current roster: White Sox go One and Done in the Playoffs. ...don't want to see that? Me neither.

There is no such thing as a dumb question...just dumb people. Judging by the above question--case in point.

...glad to see I wasn't the only one to notice the correlation. Joe Crede belongs with the White Sox throughout the pennant run. His defensive ability has to be the single most underrated skill on this message board and perhaps the whole Chicago baseball community. Listening to the Tigers broadcast the other day, you would have though they already handed Crede the Gold Glove; they were really giving Crede's defensive ability a ringing endorsement and it was very refreshing.

Easy: Willie Mays

Alligators in the sewers?

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jul 19, 2005 -> 03:43 PM) Yikes, I dont even want to think about him throwing bombs again in the Cell. Stay away, stay far far away The HR number is very, very troubling; however, if Adkins' name is even being discussed by the Sox brass--which it very well may not--Embree deserves a serious look. Adkins v. Embree ...gimme Embree.

The Red Sox recently designated Alan Embree for assignment. Appearing in over 70 games last season, Embree proved to be an important piece to the Boston bullpen. We all know how Ozzie views relievers and favoring matchups, well, Embree, if available, could merit a look by Kenny and co. Veteran + Post-season expierence + recent Sox pen move = possibility? 1-4 7.65 ERA 1S 37.2 IP 8HR Career Numbers

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jul 19, 2005 -> 02:50 PM) I have a hard time calling Bret Boone an improvement over anything. He can't approach .240, has zero power left, no speed, bad hands in the field. What exactly does he contribute to any team, no matter how bad their second baseman is? Punto and Rivas were both batting better (.253/.250) as compared to Boone's .224, yes Boone might get more RBI's, but how many chances does he squander still trying to swing for the fences? Absurd. Like the guy or not, he is an improvement. Not to mention both Punto and Rivas were butchers in the field. You can go find defensive stats such as range and whatnot, but the game isn't played on paper. His defensive improvement and veteran ability is reason enough to call him an improvement.

Let it be known: this is my guy. This is the ONE guy I want to see in a Sox uniform down the strech moreso than any other potential target. If Eddie comes in and is able to maintain his current success, our bullpen is instantly one of the best in all of baseball.

QUOTE(SHAFTR @ Jul 19, 2005 -> 02:39 PM) I don't think the Red Sox will trade Ramirez. That remains to be seen. The long-term signing of Edgar really fooled me. Didn't see that one coming.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jul 19, 2005 -> 02:32 PM) i dont see this trade really making or breaking either teams' seasons. i still think the twins were very dumb to get bret boone. Disagree. Did you see who they were trotting out at 2B? Boone is an improvement, plain and simple. They acquired the guy for virtually nothing and he is able to slide right in and contribute. It was a fine move. If you improve your ballclub, it's never dumb.

I Jeremy Bonderman. S-T-U-D

QUOTE(Chisoxrd5 @ Jul 19, 2005 -> 01:06 PM) I'm in...for sure. I'll be the "who the hell is this guy" out of the group. Well, I, for one, would know who you were. Maybe. Count me in, gang. Tailgating encouraged.

I think Shingo pitched his last pitch in Cleveland as a member of the White Sox organization. It's a shame he didn't get the proper exit out of town, but, nothing's perfect. Best of luck in the future and I hope he nets something of value in return.