Milkman delivers

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Sep 3, 2011 -> 10:23 PM) Of course it's Ozzie's fault. If you can't see that you're a moron like the rest of us. The only way this team will ever be good again is they hire the like of Dave Martinez. He's a great manager in waiting. the fact that no one has has hires th sure fire HOF manger yet, is inconceivable. Don't hold the players accountable for sucking, it's OG's fault and that's it. If you post it enough times and the post are long enough, it's even more believable. Rick Hahn and Dave Martinez=====WS Champs 2012. I find it funny that you sarcastically refer to yourself as a moron, then follow that up with about 14 grammatical errors.

LOLz?

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 2, 2011 -> 06:08 PM) I've never liked Speigel, but his point here is 100 percent right. Cowley is basically Ozzie's PR agent, getting fed info from Oney and Ozzie, disguised as a journalist. It's embarrassing for Cowley, and quite frankly, I don't see how he's relevant in this town as a writer anymore once Ozzie is gone, which is hopefully soon. But the way Speigel handled this sounds wrong. This is something you bring up with Cowley off the air before bringing it to the show, and it sounds like he didn't do that. Speigel is the one with the accurate point, but neither party wins here. As far as I'm concerned, put Cowley, Ozzie, Kenny, and Speigel on the same train out of town. They can sort out their problems in a tag team match. Who's to say that Cowley hasn't been confronted in private about this, and he just didn't listen?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 3, 2011 -> 08:30 AM) According to the Sun Times, and not Cowley, although he could be ghost writing, Walker and KW got into it recently about KWs comments about Beckham's swing. KW fired Walker but JR smoothed things over. If true, it really makes you wonder what JR thinks of KW's sudden whims and what kind of power he has left. One thing seems certain, it looks like Greg Walker is in his final few weeks as the White Sox hitting coach. Someone else will have to take the blame next year. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...frontation.html I truly am getting tired of Reinsdorf sticking his nose in there so much. It seems like Williams has no power whatsoever. He is the General Manager. Let him make the decisions or just have JR become the GM himself.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 3, 2011 -> 01:35 AM) Okay, let's take a look at that resume. Managerial career winning percentage: .526 Managerial career winning percentage without 2005: .514 Average team salary during tenure: $100 million Winning percentage with $100+ million payrolls: .519 If you take out 2005, Ozzie's is leading teams to an 83 win season. Jerry Manuel did that with a $50 million payroll (regardless of the time frame in which he managed, that is still a huge difference). But even if we include 2005, 85 wins a season given the fact that he's been given fairly talented rosters ($100 million should get you nearly a 90 win team, not an 85 win team), he's still underachieving. So what if you say that it's Kenny's fault for not allocating the funds correctly? Well, Kenny sure did a hell of a job when Manuel was the manager, those teams averaged 86 wins with a $50 million payroll. I'd say that's definitely worth some praise, even more so if you think Jerry Manuel was a horrible manager. Plus, how do we explain players under-performing? What is about this team that makes hitters who were consistent hitting machines (Dunn) before their arrival to the city turn into Drew Butera? Is it Ozzie? Is it Greg Walker? Is it the fans? I'm not certain, but this team has given Swisher, Rios, and Dunn the worst season of their careers by far. Thus, it is actually hard to blame Kenny for acquiring some of these guys (especially Dunn) considering their previous history. Rios and Swisher definitely deserve some criticism since they were very risky, but Rios looked like a great pickup last season and Swisher...well...he and Ozzie sure as hell didn't get along. Which brings me to my next point... Is Ozzie really a good player's manager? People usually mention this as Ozzie's greatest strength, but let's revisit some past history. Remember when Ozzie showed up Sean Tracey for not hitting a batter? First of all, when other players see that, they are less interested in coming to the White Sox. Some players do not like Ozzie Guillen and they will not play for him. It's different for everyone, but if you're supposed to be a good player's manager, you should be welcomed by everyone. An SI poll back in 06 showed that Ozzie was voted 8th best manager and 7th worst manager by the players. So literally, it's a love or hate thing, but once again, if you're a good player's manager, almost everyone should like you, not a 50/50 split. So really, Ozzie's not a great player's manager, he's underachieved more so than Jerry freaking Manuel if you view his time with the Sox in a wider context than 2005, and I won't even go on to explain how bad he is at managing the actual games (which is what most of his duties as a manager consist of). He hasn't won big with a team that has given a talented $100 million roster almost every single year, what makes you think he will win big with a $40 million roster down in Florida? So there you have it, a thought-out argument for why Ozzie can't really win big in Florida given his resume. Now if you want to post a thought-out rebuttal with facts to back up your opinions, that is fine. But until you do, I, along with a lot of other users on this board, won't take your opinion seriously on this matter. Great post, I especially love the bold part

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Sep 2, 2011 -> 11:10 PM) People like you apparently don't realize there are two concepts called "facts" and "logic." If you don't grasp either of those then frankly having a "differing opinion" doesn't make you credible. Here's a FACT that some people can't accept (mainly because this country beats this "everyone's opinion counts" crap into everyone's heads): Some people's opinions are simply WRONG; not valid and, consequently, not worth being taken seriously. I also love how you (like most other people that are stubborn about Ozzie) switch it to "hold the players accountable." So why is it that when people who want to defend the manager present their case, it always seems to revolve around the idea that the players are the only ones accountable and the management should get off scot-free? Apparently to people like yourself, NOTHING management ever does can be wrong or a fireable offense; only the players' faults/shortcomings make any negative impact on a team. That's purely and simply FOOLISH. I don't hold Ozzie accountable for players playing bad; I hold Ozzie accountable for consistently putting guys in the lineup who aren't hitting and putting them in HIGH SPOTS. Dunn hitting behind Konerko at this point in the season is beyond stupid. I hold Ozzie accountable for the consistently (BLATANTLY) ignorant things he does that potentially cost us wins. I don't hold KW accountable for the players playing bad; I hold KW accountable for depleting our farm system to virtually nothing while emptying a truckload of cash to give to guys like Rios (Dunn is admittedly not his fault at all) who obviously had gone south and was staying there. Going into this season looking at our big league team and farm system I thought to myself, "God DAMN I hope no one major gets sidelined and put on the DL or we are SCREWED. It's absolutely asinine that the people who STILL defend Ozzie can't see how OBVIOUSLY clueless the guy is at managing a ballclub and somehow think the players are the ONLY ones who are at fault for anything... EVER. Quite frankly if you think this way and take this position then you DESERVE to be insulted. Wow, nice!

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Sep 2, 2011 -> 04:23 PM) Kind of the same with you. If I don't agree with your thoughts, I'm wrong or have no common sense. I think I'd rather argue with a brick wall, at least I wouldn't have to listen to insults and bullcrap if I have a differing opinion. No, I very rarely insult people unless they are complete buffoons. And I have civil arguments and debates with posters all the time, and will admit when I've been proven wrong or when a valid point is made.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 2, 2011 -> 10:16 PM) Honestly, it is better than talking about whether we should fire or double fire Ozzie again. It is a source of info of what is going on in baseball, and it puts a lot of good info in front of people. ^This.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 2, 2011 -> 12:45 PM) But you have to admit too, Soxtalk is the last place anything involving Cowley could be judged fairly. I got texts from an assortment of my friends saying the same thing, and none of them post here.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Sep 2, 2011 -> 12:01 PM) Wait, can somone give me a run down on the story? Are you guys actually siding with Cowley or Spiegel? Oney just tweeted: Oney Guillen Wow just hear that matt spiegel got owned by jow cowley. What new. Skip doesnt need a mouthpiece he doesnt run from questions LOL Only a Guillen would take the exact opposite from the situation. Everyone seems to think Cowley got butt raped, to put it lightly.

QUOTE (MurcieOne @ Sep 2, 2011 -> 11:24 AM) This argument has been brewing all week. Props to Speigel for having the cojones to stand up to this douche. It's seems so blatantly obvious that Cowley has whored himself out to Ozzie and his family. The man has no objectivity left and shouldn't cover the team. He's an embarrassment to the suntimes and reporting as a whole. Seriously, I never listen to sports radio and I mentioned recently that I'd never heard of Speigel, but I love this guy now.

QUOTE (MattZakrowski @ Sep 2, 2011 -> 12:12 AM) I listen to his podcast religiously, and only borderline Cy Young contenders are aces to him. Not that much of a slight, really. I agree. There's a difference between a #1 starter and an ace.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 11:45 PM) Christ man, you really are delusional. This will be my last response. KW isn't the manager, Ozzie is. Ozzie makes the lineup. Ozzie has had a fully capable replacement for Rios in De Aza since 7/27, yet Rios has played in 27 games since then. Unacceptable, plain and simple. Rios should have been the 5th OF as of 7/27. That is totally and completely on Ozzie and NOBODY else. As for Dunn, he also has had a perfectly capable replacement sitting on the bench in Lilibridge. 8/1 should have been the last Dunn ever saw the field. But good ol' Ozzie kept him in there, seemingly to spite KW. In his final stroke of genius, ol' spark-plug Ozzie used Vicedo as some sort of 4th grade girl way of getting back at KW. KW knew Ozzie wouldn't play him, so he remained in AAA while Dunn and Rios lined the boxscores with K's and weak grounders to SS. By defending him, you're agreeing that it's more important for our manager to have a cat fight with our GM than to put the best team on the field. I know you won't understand that, but that's what you're doing. I'm loving this new Jenksy

QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Sep 2, 2011 -> 01:34 AM) Same, I'm ready for the Ozzie era to end, but this is a non-issue to me, people making a big deal about nothing. Whether you want him gone or prefer he stay it's getting annoying everyone makes such big issues over every litthle thing he does that don't matter. A bunch of small things add up to a big thing. Add those to the many other big things he's done, and it's just another reason to fire him.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 2, 2011 -> 01:09 AM) Greg's act is annoying, but not worth getting upset about. And I know it's an act because no sensible person could actually believe what he says. Not even worth paying attention to him. I've been saying this for years. He's basically a troll and people just need to ignore him. I've had him on ignore for a long time, but I'm still inundated with his insane bulls*** because people are constantly responding to him. Go argue with a brick wall and see if you can tell the difference. You won't.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 08:45 PM) Lillibridge is a fringe player at best. You're down 3 in the bottom of the 9th, it's desperation time. I have no problem sending up a left handed hitting HR threat, even if it's Dunn who has sucked all year. Why not take a chance with a guy who has averaged about 40 HR/year. There's 99% chance you're losing that game anyway. Everyone acts like the Sox win if Lillibrdge bats. It was a desperate act in desperate situation. It is really very insignificant who batted in that situation, the Sox were likely going to lose. Haha, I guess there's no arguing with you. Logic doesn't do it, so there's no point.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 08:06 PM) Why would you PH for Lillibridge in the first place? He leads the entire team in HRs in August and rarely plays. Plus, he homered off of Nathan last time he faced him. And to top it off, he hit a HR earlier in the game. The fact that you don't get any of that and are still looking for a reason to PH for him makes it easier to understand why you back up Ozzie so often. He and Greg are the same person. If the posting style doesn't prove it, their views on Ozzie do.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 09:39 PM) 163(total games +1)-75(Tiger wins)-66(Sox losses)=22 Sox number to win the division is 33. Thank you, sir. That 22 doesn't sound so bad, but somehow the 33 seems nearly impossible.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 04:40 PM) Remember when certain members of the media would say that "one person doesn't make that big of a difference in a lineup". Well, I went back and looked at the 31 games this season we've lost by one or two runs, and I calculated the stats for Rios and Dunn. Rios is 25 for 123 in those games (.204 bavg) with one HR and 4 RBI in those games Dunn is 12 for 94 in thos games (.128 bavg) with 3 HR and 8 RBI in those games You're looking at a team that is on par with the Tigers, if not at the head of the class, if those two could have given us a lot more production in close games. So, you're telling us that Dunn has actually been even less important than he's seemed?

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 02:32 PM) Earl Weaver, considered by many one of the best mangers of all time, relied on ptching, defense, and sat back and waited for the 3 run homer. I don't agree with everything OG does but many people (not saying you) seem to think, no matter what Ozzie does is wrong. If he would have let Lillibridge bat and strike out, I'm sure some would have been saying Dunn should have been up there. I guess what I'm saying is most people just assume the best is going to happen if a situation was handled the way they think it should. If Dunn would have cracked a 3 run HR there, would people be giving Ozzie credit for a great move? I doubt it. The one thing OG has done pretty consistently is put a wining team out there. They may not win enough all the time, but he's not a guy like Eric Wedge who wins manager of the year one year and is fired within 2-3 years afterwards. In my mind, the 3 most consistent managers in the AL have been Scioscia, Gardenhire and Ozzie. Their teams, for the most part, are always in it. I don't count Francona and Girardi because, with that payroll, all they have to do is not mess things up. I love people who can't come up with a real argument, so they make up completely untrue statements.

QUOTE (bozzie @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 01:51 PM) He berated Kenny Williams into dumping a Hall of Famer who averaged .270, 37 home runs and 98 RBI in three years with the White Sox. And thus did Jim Thome move on. His preferred replacement was instrumental to Ozzie's mandate that the White Sox add speed to a lineup that Guillen claimed was held back by the logjam at the middle of the order caused by Paul Konerko and Thome. Handed to him on a silver platter by Williams despite his incomprehension, in 2010, White Sox Designated Hitter Mark Kotsay hit .239, with 8 home runs and 31 RBI. Kotsay stole 1 base while with the Sox. Ozzie's complete embarrassment, and Kenny's facilitation of it, did not sit well with mercurial one. In fact, Ozzie, always insecure and deservedly so after a middling Major League career and more bluster than success as a manager, was totally humiliated by the Kotsay mishap. Which of course was Williams' plan all along. For 2011, Kenny brought in what he thought was a real power hitter, Adam "Big Donkey" Dung. Dung's success and utter lack of it have been chronicled here and elsewhere throughout Chicago ad nauseum, which is usually what Dung ends up producing in White Sox fans as he waddles toward the batter's box. Rather than manage, Ozzie chose to trot Dung out, day after day, often in the most important spot in the batting order, until he could be sure Kenny's embarrassment over Dung was as acute as his over Kotsay. And there went another White Sox season. Until yesterday. That's when Dung, finally relegated to the bench where he belongs, was brought into a game situation in the ninth inning by Ozzie as a pinch hitter. The fact that Dung looks like he's shaking off 6 months worth of rust during at bats in which he has been playing everyday didn't deter Ozzie from putting him in the unenviable position of pinch hitting with the game on the line. Of course, Dung struck out. What else can he do? He was followed a couple batters later by Kenny's other big whiff of recent, Alex Rios. Rios struck out looking, which is more than what he does half the time when fly balls carry out his way. And the game was started - and ended quickly - by complete Williams bust Jake Peavy, who despite his bluster and lectures to his Sox teammates to get tougher has been more fragile than cheap china from China in the midst of putting up Cy Dung caliber numbers such as a 4.90-something ERA while struggling to stay over .500. What yesterday made clear is that Ozzie Guillen, who probably already realizes he is on the way out, will stay true to his stubborn ways and continue to try to find ways to embarrass Kenny Williams through his poor personnel decisions. What's also clear is that Ozzie Guillen is guilty of forfeiting games this season by continuing to do so. And for that, even Oney oughta run him out of town . . . Oh my God. I know I'm a dark cloud on this site, but at least I'm terse. You're like a f***ing monsoon of negativity.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 12:21 PM) Where does Peavy get off talking about how he just wants to get to the off season so he can return to normal? What a f***ing asshole. I've been a defender of this guy up to today but no more, not after those remarks he made. Narcissistic jag. The Tigers magic # is what, 24? And this guy is talking like it's over. I believe it's less than 24.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 09:17 AM) But you don't....you seem to think it's just a matter of trading Dunn and Rios to free up money. Blocking him is the best thing, believe me.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 09:02 AM) Post game interview quotes. That's just terrible.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 08:38 AM) CSNChi_Beatnik Brett Ballantini Ozzie on the goal in Detroit: "Don't get swept." CSNChi_Beatnik Brett Ballantini Ozzie on Rios' outburst in 6th: "His swing was better in dugout--was connecting very hard...If that was ball it would have been on Dan Ryan" Wait, is that serious?