beautox

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 08:13 PM) I'm going to burn up my iPad switching between Soxtalk, Twitter, and MLB top prospects sites. in the same boat

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 07:42 PM) Bruce Levine‏ @MLBBruceLevine 42s42 seconds ago More The Yankees are the team closest to getting a deal done with Chicago Wh Sox Robertson-Frazier and Kahnle going if deal completed sooo Frazier, Robertson & Kahnle for Florial, Sheffield, Mateo, Andujar and Abreu?

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 06:48 PM) hahn >>>>> avila yeah tigers got fleeced

Calling it, Groome + Ockimey & Mata

My prediction, Kahnle goes to Tampa Bay for OF/1B Jake Bauers and OF Jesus Sanchez. Tampa is in the thick of things, 1B/DH is at a recent all time low in terms of WAR per $ and they can re-sign LoMo in the offseason. By trading for Kahnle they get an ace in their bullpen and if they fall out of it next year he can be moved for a similar if not better package. Hahn gets to mitigate his risk with Kahnle while still walking away with two more top 100 players, one that will be ready mid '18 and a future outfield of Jimenez/Robert/Sanchez to sell fans to dream on.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 08:36 AM) It is interesting how many people think picking up Panda's contract is a good thing. A. Boston is flush with cash and not over the luxury tax. If these prospects are a bargain for $50 million, why would they be in the business of selling them? And B. JR just spent $50 million on a prospect. He certainly isn't going to spend $50 million on another, and neither would anyone here if they actually owned the team. from a number of places I've seen most have Boston under the luxury tax by 10M. They're going to want to add this deadline and this offseason; Hosmer? and anything after that 10M is going to get taxed at 40% of the AAV it makes plenty of sense to take back panda at 18-35M+ to get a prospect(s) like Groome or Chavis in addition to what Frazier should bring by himself. Sox payroll this year is dead money might as well pay whatever on Robertson, Frazier and Melky to return the best return and going into '18 if you take out Robertson's contract they're adjusted payroll is 12M, that doesn't include arbitration for Abreu, Avi, Kahnle etc, but still its massive gap from their current adjusted payroll of 106.8M. No one is saying they're a "bargain" just that the value of Groome and Chavis are roughly 18-19M each and that in taking on Sandoval's dead money Boston gets to continue to add to their team this deadline and offseason with out paying a 40% premium on additions. Groome is likely going to be a level a year pitcher and Chavis is behind their top prospect at 3B and just got to AA himself, take all that into account with the pending free agent class of next year; Hosmer and then the next Donaldson and Machado

I felt the Sale deal was one piece light and would've preferred a higher prospect instead of depth in Basabe and Diaz, there is still plenty of time for both of them to turn around their poor showing this year. The Eaton deal I was over the moon with and still am; I was pleasantly surprised when Hahn decided to sell high and I hope that trend continues with Avisail. The Q trade was fair, I was expecting it to be a 3 piece deal and the third piece having some more weight like Jose Albertos, Adbert Alzolay or Aramis Ademan.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 04:17 PM) The bolded is the rub. You're not making him Andrew Miller from 2016-2017, but you're making him an elite pitcher and saying he will stay there. Some guys who will probably put up that number for the full season include ~Wade Davis, Brad Hand, Ryan Madson. 1.5 WAR each year means he's a top 30 reliever in baseball each of the next 3 years, and it only takes a small step for him to be top 10. The big question we all are struggling with in trying to determine his trade value is whether or not that is true. If you think he's a 1.5 WAR+ reliever each of the next 3 years, then I think the people who are saying we should hold him are probably right - I have serious doubts about whether we'll get that quality of return for him and wait until 2018 to move him once he's established that this is really who he is. I agree that comes down to if you buy into his peripherals and his age. Miller was 29 when he broke out and became elite, Tommy is 27. 4.5WAR over three years is a mid point he could be more or he could flame out and continue to be a guy organizations bank on breaking out. If the sox sell him this deadline and the return was Chavis and Groome I wouldn't be mad by any stretch as Hahn might choose to be risk adverse with him, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Hahn hold onto him and try and extract an even larger return in the offseason or the next deadline.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 01:27 PM) Regarding the speculated trades of Groome and Chavis for Frazier and Kahnle, plus Andujar from N.Y., for Robertson: I don't know if someone has mentioned that, in addition to the overly optimistic nature of this return, it seems unlikely that our Sox would be seeking both Chavis and Andujar in these trades. That would add 2 more third basemen to our number one pick in last years draft. You could even add Matt Rose to the list, as he is considered a plus defender, at 3RD, with a power bat. Isn't that a little "overkill" at the hot corner? Kahnle's return isn't optimistic at all if anything its slightly below what the market has previously dictated for relievers of his caliber; Groome had a lat issue earlier this season in addition to make up concerns and is currently ranked at 87th and Chavis is experiencing a break out of his own and ranked 96th. As it stands right now it just depends if Hahn wants to roll the dice again with a reliever, he has seen similar situations play out before with Crain and Jones but if he does I expect next deadline provided Kahnle produces to bring back two prospects in the 60-100 range and a lotto ticket. Frazier himself should bring back Ockimey & Mata as it stands so that return for both is light. If Robertson is moved to the Yankees I doubt they go after Andujar or that the yankees move him; Mateo makes too much sense for a number of reasons for both clubs; he is behind their top prospects at every position, and even further down the line if he his moved to the OF, currently taking up space on the 40 man and that is going to be a crunch going forward and he is experiencing a resurgence in AA so it makes sense to sell high after his mediocre stint at A+ this year. For the sox he gives them an interesting option if in the next 2 years Anderson can't get it together at the major league level. Abreu as the second piece makes sense as well because of his distance to the show and he is going to eat up another 40 man spot this offseason. for the rest of the season the projection systems are expecting Frazier to produce another .9-1.2WAR and if you go by fangraphs values for prospect ratings he should be worth a 45FV hitter or 45-50FV pitcher. Kahnle is currently 27 is projected between .3-.5WAR for the rest of the season, if you project him to produce 4.5WAR(1.5 per) over his next three years before he is a FA his value not including his salary is roughly 44.6M including the remainder of this year and it doesn't factor in a potential comp pick as the next cba isn't till '21. Take all that into account and I feel some on this board are severely underrating his value.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 08:00 PM) I mentioned Solak before even during Quintana rumors. A personal favorite prospect of mine. Yeah Solak fits this organization's recent strategy like a glove and I like what he brings to the table. I find myself preferring Andujar or Mateo over Florial because they're closer to the show and don't have the pronounced strike out problem. Sheffield to me is a interesting arm and fits the sweet spot of another very interesting lefty that is close as well. I like Mateo because if he needs to be moved off SS he still profiles so well at 2B/CF and maybe the yankee brass doesn't appreciate his attitude and wants to "sell high" on his recent promotion. It would be another opportunity to just reaffirm that development isn't linear and doesn't always make sense, well below average at A+ goes to AA lights the world on fire etc.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 07:53 PM) Yankees with interest in bringing D Rob back...Wonder what kind of return we'd be looking at? Something like Mateo or Andujuar + a pitching prospect like Abreu or Tate. Or is that not enough? I just can't see us getting Torres/Frazier/Rutherford for Robinson. But maybe an outside shot at Rutherford. Something like Mateo, Abreu, + another prospect in their 20-30 range would be more than enough for me. I think if Robertson goes to the yankees we're looking at a return like this Sheffield/Florial/Mateo/Andujuar + Nick Solak. I wouldn't be against buying into Mateo's resurgence at AA and Hostetler and company love Louisville and the type of player Solak. With the opening Mendick's promotion has created Solak makes a ton of sense.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 12:36 PM) Would prefer to trade Robertson to someone else, not really enamoured with Boston's system after their top couple of prospects If Hahn is bringing Groome or Chavis back thats similar to bringing Soto back from the Nats, Fowler(pre injury) from the Yankees or McMahon back from the Rox. Groome, Ockimey & Mata and I'm feeling like the Adam Eaton trade all over again.

QUOTE (Sockin @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 12:29 PM) If we're adding Robertson we better be getting Groome or Travis back. I agree

The thing about all of this to me is that even if it is Ockimey and Mata coming back they'd both slot in the 22-25 range for the farm as it stands now including the '17 class

Since medicals on boston's side seem to be the hang up i wonder if Hahn can nix the third player and go straight for Ockimey and Mata

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 11:25 PM) Twitter says Ockimey, Hernandez,and Lozada If true thats a solid return for todd, originally i had him being moved for Swihart + Bell, but seeing the direction the sox have been heading i felt Ockimey & Beeks made a lot of sense Hernandez fits a similar spot to Beeks. Jalen has gotten some helium recently and he is major league ready depth and left handed so i can understand boston's reluctance to trading him. Chavis is finally putting it all together and was ranked #96 by BA in their mid season. Only way I could see him and Groome coming back is if Boston wanted financial assistance by Hahn taking on half of Sandoval's deal. Ockimey's profile Hernandez's profile Lozada's profile

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 05:00 PM) And for whom would Boston need to clear that salary room so as not to hit the Tax? Re Sandoval, just DFA him upon acquisition, please. Future acquisitions, like Hosmer next year and extensions (bogaerts, betts, JBJ to start) and if we got Sandoval it would do no harm to invest time with him at 3B/1B/DH and see if they can get him right and ship him off at the deadline next year for a prospect or two, worst case as actual prospects come up DFA him again.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 04:08 PM) Ugh... loses nearly 2 years of development. that sucks, would've likely made the jump to the bigs last year if we contended. I wish him a fast recovery and here is hoping that he is the mid season shut down closer of the '19 dark horse white sox.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 12:24 PM) Why should the White Sox pick up any of Sandoval's money? That's Boston's problem. No one is going to help them out there. I'm all for eating Frazier's remaining money(6M) while eating 1/2 of Sandoval's remaining contract; roughly 50M including the buy out. To get a package like Groome + Chavis + Okimey & Beeks. Essentially paying 25m for Groome and Chavis, Sox would be giving them roughly an additional 20M of breathing room since they wouldn't be getting hit with a 40% overage, so in essence nearly clearing them from the tax burden of the contract and give them more flexibility in free agency and acquisitions in the future. It would be very forward thinking by Hahn and similar to the dodgers Alex Wood, Jose Peraza 3-team, 13-player deal. Boiling it down, if sox eat 25M of Sandovals contract and if need be send 6M over with Frazier it will help the red sox save roughly 45M+ in future obligations and get them under the tax threshold. In doing so Chicago gets 2 top 100 prospects Groome @ 87 & Chavis @ 96 while getting market value for Frazier in Ockimey & Beeks. If you go by the point of Pittsburgh study and viva el birdo's recent study in terms of rank Groome & Chavis are worth between $36.2 - $37.1M The white sox have $102,951,212 in total adjusted salary this year after taking out Q's contract, next year its $28,950,000 if you include Robertson's contract or just $15,950,000 if you take out Robertson's contract and that doesn't include arbitration for Abreu and Avi, If the sox can use their financial muscle to get two top 100 prospects I hope they do so, they've shown a willingness in signing Robert lets keep it going. edit - spelling and missing link

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 11:47 AM) Rizzo is not an idiot, so to me this is screaming that they just don't have budget. This could be an attempt of saying "look seriously we have no options, we need to take on at least another 10 mill." I agree he just appears stuck between a rock and a hard place, he wants to keep his blue chip in Robles but ownership has made it so he can't even afford to take on a reasonable contract (Robertson) let alone one a bad contract to protect whats left of their farm. Its compounded by the fact they need minimum two possibly three relievers. If they don't fix their bullpen it'll be another early exit for their organization when the post season starts.

Here is what I would like to see Robertson to the Nationals for OF Juan Soto(A) & LHP Jesus Luzardo® - They need help even if their going to audition Feede & Romero in the BP. Frazier + $ to the Red Sox for 1B Josh Ockimey(A+) & LHP Jalen Beeks(AAA) - Red Sox just DFA'd Peralta and need help at 3B/1B this is such an obvious fit Swarzak to the Rockies for SS Garrett Hampson(A+) & 1B Brian Mundell(AA) - Everyone pushing for the post season could use a set up man thats having a career year and is only making 250k, these are two very nice depth pieces for a strong farm with out shooting for the moon like McMahon. Cabrera + $ to the Royals for SS Nicky Lopez(AA) - Royals need help in LF and DH and there is familiarity here, Melky if his remaining 7.5 is paid off should net you a solid prospect like Lopez, he fits what the FO is trying to do position player wise.

No one should be off limits during this rebuild but he should be able to lead the rotation in '19, when the sox push for .500 and a chance to be a dark horse like the brewers this year or the Astros/Cubs of two years ago as well as 20 & 21 when the sox should be completely rebuilt. Between the '18 FA class, the first two waves of talent hitting the sox and a top 3 pick(Brady Singer..maybe), they should have an elite staff. Giolito Rodon* Kopech Guerrero* Lopez

Yurchak has my attention now the real question is where does play at A?? just rotate Burger, Sheets and Him between DH/1B/3B?

QUOTE (ChiSox1917 @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 08:23 PM) Could Avi net back Kelly in a trade to the Cards? I think if you think Avi is a 3.5-4+ win player going forward then yes. I think Avi could bring back Kelly and a live arm. If Avi starts the second half on fire and the cards get back into it I could see that trade taking place, Yadi is under contract for 2 more years and Kelly is just waiting at AAA. St. Louis in my eyes is going to run it up to the deadline as their last 10 games break down this way. 3 with the cubs, 3 with the rockies and 4 with the d-backs.