Dick Allen

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) Okay, replace the 5 with a 6 and address the post. They are 8 months apart in age. Apparently Heyward's tools took a huge hit and now that he is almost 28, using your criteria, there really isn't any hope these tools develop. I actually think Eaton is improving, and think he will hit with more power. I also though Heyward would hit with more power when he became a Cub, but he is messed up, and hasn't hit for much power in several years.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:33 PM) Let's go over this again... "Heyward was signed as a 25 year old." "Eaton will be traded as a 28 year old." Established 25 year olds with plus tools have more value than established 28 year olds with limited tools. Poll 30 MLB GM's and ask them which player has more potential. I think you're going to get a pretty clear cut idea. Actually he wasn't signed as a 25 year old. Do you really think they would think the same today? Also, of the 30, is there 1 that would trade Adam Eaton straight up for Jason Heyward?

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:31 PM) And the Cubs added Gleybar Torres to their Yankees deal because interviews told them that Chapman was a boy scout not because they wanted to win the World Series at all costs. I have no idea what that has to do wih it, but OK. Chris Sale is the biggest asshole in baseball. Now you can be happy.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:18 PM) Compared to Jason Heyward? Is this even up for debate? Heyward signed as a 25 year old with good established offensive production and the plus tools to project increased production. He wasn't signed because of his defensively inflated WAR. Eaton will be traded as an established 28 year old without near the upside to project. He's a hell of a player, but his some of his numbers are smoke and mirrors. GM's aren't dumb. Eaton is 8 months older than Heyward. You must really love Heywards raw power, I'll take results. Eaton has hit more homers than him each of the last 2 seasons. And if Eaton's WAR is all from defense, how do you conclude Heyward's is not? Look at their offensive numbers.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:05 PM) And Heyward is notably better in the clubhouse based on the stuff he did in the World Series. Since we don't have clubhouse access, to say someone is notably better is ludicrous.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 01:54 PM) Ouch. Shots fired. But well deserved. There are no shots fired. He's just praising their organization. If anyone thinks he is taking shots at the White Sox, you might want to actually read the article http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/for-chr...is-bittersweet/

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 01:27 PM) What did Ken Williams do that made him an asshole? He was responding to a complaint from in the locker room. And if you cut up an entire wardrobe of jerseys before a game because you don't like the color, you're a jerk. He has done a lot to make himself an asshole. He got into a verbal war with maybe the greatest player in franchise history saying the "man is an idiot". He went and signed a washed up Jeff Nelson in 2006 for the sole purpose of making Frank Thomas look bad because Frank had a bad history against him. It didn't work. Frank lit him up and Nelson was quickly released. He got into a public spat with his old manager. He has stepped on his current GMs toes several times. He has sparred verbally with fans at Soxfest who have every questioned his ways. Not to mention when Ron Schueler resigned as GM, he recommended Danny Evans to JR because he thought KW's personality would rub other teams the wrong way and would lead to problems. As for cutting up jerseys, I've stated there is no defense. When I first heard it I laughed it off. It couldn't possibly be true, but it was. But I think he honestly thought it would hurt his performance. It's silly, he's probably not the brightest guy, but it really doesn't make him a jerk.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 01:21 PM) The White Sox are pretty much in the same position as the Twins. It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with the ballpark. Holland is better suited to pitch and be successful in a place like Minnesota or KC.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 01:03 PM) This. He can't handle being told something he doesn't want to hear. I think we all have issues with this.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 01:18 PM) I think they have the prospects, we just liked the package for Sale more then the package they offered. In Cutch's case, I think it is more that the two teams can't agree on what the right price is, not that the nats don't have the talent to get it done. They most definitely have the horses to do it, will they want to pay the price, that is another question. I was a little surprised to hear that for most of the baseball industry, package the White Sox received was considered head and shoulders above Giolito/Robles/ Lopez which supposedly was their offer for Sale. Q/Eaton are so much surplus, Turner has to be part of it, or I don't see how it makes sense for the White Sox. I think trading your 2 most valuable assets to the same team probably isn't the best way to maximize value in a return.

If they didn't have the prospects for Sale/Cutch, I don't see how they have the prospects for this. Q is probably worth a little less than Sale, but Eaton should be valued a bit higher than Cutch. Maybe this is Rizzo try to waste RH/KW's time after they used him to perfection yesterday. The only thing I can think of is maybe it could depend on what the Yankees were going to give up for Gio. That could have added to their inventory. But I can't see how you give up both of these guys and not get Turner as part of the package. Even if they gave you their top 10, it isn't worth it IMO.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 01:01 PM) Is Chris Sale a a hard head? Does he stand by what he believes in? Is he a rebel? I think yes, he rebels against management for what he believes in, but I don't think that makes him an asshole. Did he punch a teammate in the face? Did he beat his wife or sleep with another teammate's? Did he get away with murder charges like other pro athletes have? Or does he have the facial expression of one Conor Gillaspie... I didn't think so. Unless people have more specific evidence or know him personally I think it's silly to declare Sale an asshole now that he's with another org. By all accounts I think he's a pretty cool dude based on how he interacted with the fans (some on this forum had first hand experience), the way he stuck his neck out for a kid, and his post game interviews. It's just White Sox fan mentality. They have to find something wrong with their nice things. Sale is pretty flawless on the field, so when he calls that asshole KW an asshole, the guy is a total douchebag. The same thing happens with Eaton. There was some anonymous comment when he was traded here how it was addition by subtraction for AZ because he was cocky. Eaton addressed it right away, said he was surprised anyone felt like that, apologized if he offended anyone. Thought he got along with everyone OK, said he had to play with a chip on his shoulder and a cocky attitude to be successful. He is successful, and even though he has been here 3 years, no one plays harder, he now has attitude issues, you know from that report in AZ. He's a clubhouse cancer, no one can stand him even though they made him the player rep, and he's pretty certain to have a public meltdown if the Sox trade away most of their core but keep him. It's some of the goofiest stuff I have ever read. And I've read most of Caulfield's posts.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 12:57 PM) If there were negative responses, do really think the Red Sox would have reported it? "The consensus on this guy in the clubhouse was 50-50, but f*** it, we want to win." If only front offices were that honest. They added Yoan Moncada to their offer. I think that's a pretty good sign the response wasn't he's a clubhouse cancer.

Abreu and Moncada actually were teammates for a little while in Cuba.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 12:27 PM) Which ex-teammates and what did they say? Sources? What were the Red Sox standards when they vetted him thoroughly? He's a top 5 pitcher in all of baseball, they aren't gonna demand him to a be a quiet little boy scout. Just because they traded for him, doesn't mean he had no skeletons in the closet from the Cell, they just weren't enough to not take a risk to win the World Series. The article I read said they questioned many ex teammates about him, and the response was all positive.

Supposedly the Red Sox vetted Sale pretty thoroughly. Much to the apparent dismay of many here, his ex-teammates don't consider him a monster. Merkin was defending him on Twitter from someone who said Sale was an idiot. Besides if Sale is so awful due for a meltdown, what is Kopech?

Maybe things will go nuts this afternoon and evening, but for an event that was hyped up as going to be crazy, there hasn't been many trades. Without the Sale trade, this Winter Meetings has been a snooze fest.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:47 AM) Fister on a one year, $5 million deal is zero risk to the White Sox really He pitched 180 innings and we are going to need those to be eaten somehow Let our young players develop in the minors and absolutely tank at the mlb level to land a top draft pick With the right deconstruction we can land a top 5 pick the next two seasons in a row and be improved dramatically by 2019 / 2020 There seems to be more and more teams either tanking or seriously considering it, not just in baseball, but football and basketball as well. While it may be wise, it is going to take it's toll IMO on the leagues. A lot of uninteresting games.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:40 AM) Aren't you the one who is fond of saying that it isn't your money? Yes, but the point is, it is just pissing it away. If they want to piss it away, it's their money. But the only good coming from the White Sox signing Derek Holland would be from Mr. Holland's bank account. He wouldn't be successful, and wouldn't be able to eat innings. If it were the Twins or Royals, they should be all over this guy. Not the White Sox. Look for a better fit.

QUOTE (Soxnfins @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:24 AM) I don't see how a 1 year, $3m (Latos-esque) contract can hurt us. This pretty much implies that Quintana is close to being dealt. No, but the reality is it's just pissing it away. Again, I don't have a list of guys, but there should be others who maybe strike people out or throw groundballs when everything is right. Those are the types to take chances on. Not some guy whose style doesn't fit the ballpark when he is 100%, which he probably will not be or Texas doesn't let him go.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:13 AM) None of this even matters to a rebuilding team with one and possibly two holes open in the rotation. Holland serves as a filler until a younger pitcher is ready or, the off chance Holland pitches well enough to be traded. Worst case scenario is he s***s the bed and the Sox release him. No harm no foul. I understand that. I am not against signing these types of projects. But, there has to be some way you can hope for success. Derek Holland, when healthy, isn't the kind of guy who profiles very well at the Rate. I would rather the Sox spend resources on guys, who if everything goes right keep the ball in the park, throw groundballs, strike people out...Those are guys other teams may give up prospects to acquire.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 10:59 AM) Interesting, still weird not to mention Q though? Not as weird as if he mentioned him and traded him 10 minutes later.

I get signing rehab projects and hoping to get something, but this is a guy who first of all is always hurt. OK, you get fortunate and he's healthy. Secondly, gives up a lot of home runs. Not good where the Sox play. Third, throws very few groundballs. Again, not good on the southside of Chicago. He's the kind of guy who is behind the eight ball if things go his way. There has to be someone out there to if it all goes right, has a decent chance of success. Holland just needs too many miracles to get something of value for him.

If you are acquiring prospects, I see no less riskier acquisition than the one ranked #1 in the league.

QUOTE (SoxFanForever @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 10:30 AM) $70 million for Desmond? Rockies are on something good. Not only that, they surrender pick #11. The White Sox move up. Yes.