Dick Allen

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 10:19 AM) I still can't believe this argument being made by the players and some on here. Do people really think if Theo had to tell Arrieta something that Arrieta would flat out blow off his request? If it was breaking a previous agreement, yes. Besides, it doesn't appear KW has much respect from the clubhouse. Telander may be on to something. But the battles against KW didn't just begin. He appears he is turning into a Jerry Crumbs Krause type. The Bulls players and coaches hated Crumbs.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 10:03 AM) There are plenty of issues with almost any drill that this wouldn't have been questioned by anyone, and LaRoche would have looked like a jerk if he truly did ignore it, and then even more so had he opposed it. Whatever. Too late now. What a f***ing mess. And Eaton and Sale won't just shut. the. f***. up. I agree they could have used safety as an excuse. But that wouldn't fly with "dialing it back" unless it was dialing it back to zero. That is why I think the story KW supposedly used, now story number 5 is total BS as well. Story to the press, here all the time just asked him to dial it back a little bit Story to the players, coaches complained about him being here too much Story to the coaches players complained New story actually ownership thought it was too much Bucket story, KW concerned about safety LARoche couldn't care less

QUOTE (LDF @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 10:01 AM) but does that justify sale and eaton doing their thing ???? i am done with this main point of the debate, unless there is something else outside this excuse. It is 'merica. People, for the most part, are free to say what they chose.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 09:45 AM) If they really are concerned about the kid, they need to stop dragging him into this. What a joke. Secondly, as to bucket's post about safety, agreed that this should have been mentioned earlier. The safety issue, particularly in light of the issues which have occurred around the game in the last several years, would have been a very clean way to handle this mess. Many people would have likely sniffed through it, but it wouldn't have been able to have been challenged like it has. There are clear safety and liability issues created with a 14 year old being on the field during drills. It depends on the drill. They made it seem like he was on the mound and balls were flying all around him, but maybe it was a base running drill and just seeing him pissed KW off. It is obvious that safety and liability weren't the issue or they would have pulled him off the field totally, not just asked that he "dial it back" because even doing that, the issue remains.

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 09:49 AM) If he didn't get approval to be on after yesterday, he should be suspended for saying this. I think the Union would have quite a case. I don't think JR has the power to shut his players up.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 09:35 AM) And then they changed their mind. Which is their right No it's not to most. Again read what chairman Reinsdorf had to say when he called a press conference after Horace Grant verbally agreed to a contract extension, but realized things change, and backed out. Weren't most people critical of DeAndre Jordan last summer? I would love to see if things change was mentioned in that thread.

QUOTE (whtsoxfan @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 09:32 AM) This is not just about LaRoche http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/white-s...iams-runs-deep/ It seems KW has packed on some lbs. he needs a manzier.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 09:29 AM) "We lost a leader in Drake LaRoche " -Adam Eaton on the Score What a joke. I don't even want to root for these guys anymore. Drake is at home with his Dad. Eaton makes it sound like he died from cancer He is probably saying that for the kids benefit. There is a lot of crap flying but I think people are realizing a 14 year old kid is unfairly in the middle of this, and is in a can't win situation. He knows at least someone is bothered by him with the White Sox. He knows his dad quit his job, something he loved because of it. Take these little things that Eaton and Sale are throwing out there for what they are. Something the kid will eventually see and appreciate.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 09:22 AM) This last sentence (the "joking/wink-wink") is exactly why Ozzie was so shocked at all the backlash for his comments. Because every team makes those same "maricon" jokes and laughs about it. That term is thrown around as an insult at every ballpark, at least it used to be. We might have thought it was funny to joke about in high school, but that was in the 1980's and early 90's, when everyone was scared to death about HIV/AIDS and the Magic Johnson story was shocking news. The Beckham comments are about as easy to track as Adam Eaton's twitter comments that have conveniently disappeared. You are attributing what Beckhams wife says to him. That isn't fair.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 09:17 AM) Nope, I'm the one who brought it up...because it's too obvious. (And I say this from two seasons of working around a minor league baseball team every single day for 140+ games...there's always that clubhouse split between white players, Hispanic players and a few African-American players, especially the Hispanic players staying to themselves, with rare exceptions guys like Juan Uribe or Sandy Alomar that were the bridges between the two groups). We have a profile, as someone said. White, Christian (born again, most often), anti-gay (for the most part), like to go hunting and fishing, listen to country music, heck, it's the profile of NASCAR too, haha. That's LaRoche, Eaton, Sale, Beckham, Shark, Lawrie, Duke, Blaine Boyer, Bryce Harper...etc. And they've aligned with Ventura and Hahn. Most, but not all of them, grew up with a certain amount of privilege or special treatment from their teenage years onward. Then you have basically everyone else who's not 100% comfortable in that group, especially the Hispanic players. Frazier spoke up on behalf of LaRoche. I don't know how many country music concerts he attends or how often he goes hunting or goes to see Joel Osteen. Bryce Harper is white. But the other things don't seem to apply to him either. There aren't many black players in the major leagues, and the Latin guys seem to hang with Latin guys whether a Bible is in your luggage or not.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 09:11 AM) You forgot country music (the LaRoches are friends with Jason Aldean, whoever that is) and trapping. Similar to the Peavy/Crede/Buehrle days. It really is striking. Beckham was the one involved with writing the "anti-gay" stuff joking around with Chris Getz...and yet he is the one often making controversial statements (along with his wife) about President Obama and then you mix in the Robertsons/Duck Dynasty. Link to one Beckhamn controversial comment about Obama please. His wife doesn't count as him. And his anti Gay thing to Getz was something 95% or more of Soxtalk members have done at some point in their lives.

QUOTE (flavum @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 09:05 AM) I'd be lying if I said it hasn't crossed my mind that everyone loves LaRoche - especially if you're white, Christian, and like to kill stuff. Mark Buehrle likes to kill stuff. So does Jim Thome. So does Bo Jackson.so did Walter Payton.

QUOTE (LDF @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 09:02 AM) i never said anything racial on any of my post .... eaton can do his job as rep, but why the tweets??? ref the cuban and latino faction.... they are prob thinking these americans are crazy.... No I was referring to earlier in the thread it was asked why it seemed the LaRoche supporters appeared to be only white. I just think that is circumstance .

QUOTE (LDF @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 08:58 AM) it doesn't matter, this is a direct directive from the boss. any other reaction from an employee is called insubordination. anyway when did the employee dictate to the bosses. I understand respecting authority, but there are times you must step up for yourself and maybe your co workers. You have to have enough self respect not to let someone walk all over you.

QUOTE (JoshPR @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 08:54 AM) I think thats why Sale is pissed. Cause it came from Kenny. Sale considers Kenny Steped over Ventura and Hahn. Maybe if it was a coach sale wouldnt have been so pissed cause that coach has a clubhouse pressence. That and the fact that it seems Sale doesnt really like Kenny toi much made him explode. Like someone said, Sale was in ambush mode waiting for something to lash out at Kenny. And that kenny pointed fingers at everyone to justify his actions They asked Shark about it, and while he tried to stay out of it, just said that was White Sox business, but said the kid was a great kid, like a mini clubbie who didn't get paid, always working, cleaning spikes, picking up around the clubhouse, he agreed with you and thought the problem was because it wasn't handled by the players. Maddon said on the Cubs, this type of thing would be a players issue he wants no part of. And the quotes by Sale on day 1 line up with this as he didn't think it was KW's call because he wasn't in the clubhouse enough to determine clubhouse issues.

QUOTE (LDF @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 08:47 AM) so anything that sale says is always the truth.... ummm but this does not explain what the total reaction on sale and eaton's reaction. what is this, sale is the "he is lying police" now is wants to have that person punished. come on. I don't think Sale has any reason to lie, and as was noted earlier, while the individual tweets made him look like he had lost his mind, the transcript and video of his comments were far more sane. Also with Eaton, keep in mind he is the player rep, and has to be out in front in these situations, especially if there is a grievance potentially being filed. I don't agree with the racial stuff. I just think the Sox black guys are really new to the team, and many of their Latin players are either really new to the team or don't speak English well enough to where they want their quotes all over the media. These new guys had known this dynamic for only a couple of weeks.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 08:39 AM) Speaking of a deal being a deal. Isn't in the realm of possibility KW didn't mention a player or manager or coach was made uncomfortable? KW never mentioned he told him someone was uncomfortable except maybe himself, and he isn't on the list LaRoche mentioned.

QUOTE (LDF @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 08:34 AM) you are talking about language of the agreement. that is for AL battle to fight. sale and eaton involvement is what is in debate. i got it, what really happen was AL son was using kw personal toilet in his office and when kw came in, AL son did not flush after his morning constitutional and there was no toilet paper. that is the real reason on why kw is angry. Could be. It seems it would not take much to get KW to erupt. That might get a lot of people. But if KW wasn't BSing and saying this had to be done now because it is about the next guy who wants all access, how does he explain the locker and uniform? Shouldn't that have been the first to go? Sale said KW couldn't keep his story straight, that he had 3 versions, and KW gave even another to the press, which totally omitted telling LaRoche the kid would have zero access. It is pretty apparent KW wasn't being straight. It might not be the "bald" face lies as Sale referred, but they were statements that KW tried to make himself look like he handled this better than he did.

QUOTE (Saufley @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 08:16 AM) Just asking but, was the deal for the kid to be around 100% of the time or was KW right in asking him to dial it back? kW can ask but if Adam says no, then there is an agreement in place. You can ask John Danks to take a pay cut, but if he says no, you don't give him a pay cut. Whether or not this agreement is in writing, there seems to be enough sources, even a pro KW source confirming the White Sox agreed to this. The locker, the uniform, more proof Drake was granted more access. If KW or a coach thinks it's a bad deal, and didn't want the kid around, another thing the could have done is just released LaRoche, but then they would have had to pay.

QUOTE (LDF @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 08:09 AM) ok i will play, then the agreement has been followed by the sox, but the question comes into mind, now much access was that agreement was agreed to. I just don't understand why a team would give a kid a locker and a uniform if they didn't expect him to be around more than most kids and be on the field,.

QUOTE (LDF @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 07:54 AM) the sox has ..... i will counter you example by this, so by your statement, AL son has an agreement to have access to the sox faculty, that included the managers office, filing cabinets, phones, and even the higher offices ..... is this a problem??? A deal is a deal. There are things in all of our lives where we were beneficiaries of great deals, and some where all of us have been on the short end. That's life, the White Sox wanted Adam LaRoche on their team. In order to get him to agree to sign, they had to agree to grant his son access. The White Sox checked into it. He had the same arraignment in Washimgton, and Rizzo didn't lose his mind. They agreed to allow him the access so LaRoche signed with the Sox. Now LaRoche didn't play well so apparently to some, agreements made and word given, are then eligible to be broken. I disagree. They were 2 weeks away from being done with spring training, and he supposedly was at 120 games last year so 40 about KW's new magic number. You deal with it, and then change the rule.

Say ultimately it comes out that a player or players complained. Would it be better for the team to have them admit it to the guys who are upset about this or remain anonymous?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 07:17 AM) Why isn't there a single non-white player or coach on the side of LaRoche, inside or outside the White Sox organization? That's very telling. Hahn/Ventura/Sale/Eaton/Shark/Duke/Lawrie/Harper/Boyer=good KW/Rollins/Avila=evil Obviously it's not that simple, but imagine KW was to be fired. What free agent would want to sign with the White Sox, knowing that Sale and Eaton were basically running the club and dictating policy? If someone like Rodon, Abreu, Jackson or Navarro said that KW was completely wrong...then I might start to think pitchforks are in order, but everything must be much more complicated than it appears in terms of the real/true opinions of the majority of the rest of the team, especially players added this past offseason. The only thing I have seen with Avila is he being a passenger in a golf cart with Drake driving and Avila's arm around him. What did he do?

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 07:00 AM) Why spill all the beans to the media when the Sox already won? They unloaded AL and regained his $13 mil. I agree this was handled pretty badly through a PR standpoint but you've even said it yourself, in a week almost no one will be talking about this. Especially if this team starts winning, this is going to be a footnote in the 2016 season if the Sox contend. Why bury a player and keep a war of words going through the media? Kenny has no problem looking like a villain, he knows he already won, even if things look bleak with the "clubhouse issues" now, they are saying they are as united as ever, and if they aren't, then they aren't mentally tough to grind out a season anyway. Just because the kid had a locker in the clubhouse doesn't mean he should be taking normal drills and BP like he's an actual player, no other player/team does this as much as LaRoche/White Sox did. I just don't want to read how much of an ass LaRoche is for expecting the White Sox to live up to their end of an agreement. And then coming up with stories like safety issue, which could be a legit issue, but make no sense considering the White Sox never addressed the issue, KW apparently never mentioned safety to the players. Sale never mentioned KW said safety, he just said players complained, then changed it to coaches complained, then changed it to ownership complained. If you had a plumbing issue and needed a plumber, called around and got prices, and the job turned out exactly as you described, which I think this situation is as Drake was around in Washington and the Sox vetted it out, and you hired the guy who quoted the cheapest price, but when he gave you the invoice it became the most expensive, would you be understanding because "things change"?

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 10:31 PM) KW asked Adam several times to keep Drake off the field during drills as the org would be liable for any injury that occurred to his boy. Adam flat out refused time and again to a belligerent degree. That is what set off Kenny and he wasn't the only one that was concerned. Ironically Kenny was more concerned about Drake's safety than Mr. #FamilyFirst. That's what some need to know about LaRoche's behavior. How come Kenny never mentioned safety to the press? How come this wasn't addressed last season? How come they gave the kid a locker and uniform during spring training this season? How come this wasn't address for a couple weeks this spring? How come it was still OK to do it, just not as much? I think the answer is because it is BS. As to his being on the mound during a drill, does anyone know exactly what kind of drill they were running? What kind of drill would compromise his safety being on the mound? There aren't many.