Dick Allen

QUOTE (Brian @ Nov 22, 2015 -> 06:58 AM) Did they get rid of the under 4 minute TV break? I was watching as Illinois was up. Play dead at 3:58 left so I took dog out, came back in and they were down 3 with like 1:30 left. I rewound it and saw they didn't do the usual 4 minutes left commercial. No, but if a team took a TO within 30 seconds of the under 4 Media TO, that becomes a media TO now. It gors for all media TOs.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 22, 2015 -> 06:29 AM) here is a question i am still asking..... at what point is the difference of the term "blow up and retool"??? so the statement of blowing up when the sox got rid of 3 or 4 players is a blowing up or retooling??? I think when you have 1 position player left from 3 seasons ago, it is a rebuild. I don't think the semantics matter much, the fact is, except for pitchers, which almost universally the opinion is the White Sox do a decent job of developing, there is one player left since Hahn became the GM. I don't think they will stop trying to win now. It would be nice if a guy they developed actually was able to hit and field. Maybe it will happen. Maybe LaRoche is what they thought they signed in 2016. They will need some things to go right, but I don't see how they are any farther away than they were last year.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Nov 21, 2015 -> 09:42 PM) The Sox did blow it up. In 2013/2014 when they got rid of Rios, Santiago, Reed, Peavy, De Aza, Beckham, Dunn and let go AJ, Konerko, Viciedo. The only position player left from the 2012 team is Tyler Flowers. Exactly. Avi Garcia is the second longest tenured position player on the team.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 01:51 PM) Sure KW reported to JR when he had Ricks job, but now has to deal with KW and JR. Its not that Hahn can do no wrong, it would just be nice to see what he could do without be saddled with KW and his ego. KW had his run, his legacy is a line of wildly inconsistent rosters, robbing tomorrow to pay for today. When Hahn took over the moves he orchestrated were aimed at building consistency within the organization, but then we saw a flutter of moves that contradicted that strategy so that question becomes is someone else pulling the strings or is Hahn too undisciplined to stick with his own plan? There is no way to know on the outside, but when you see some of the trademarks of KW's administration rearing their head its a natural assumption that KW is still pulling the strings that stand in the way of Hahn's plan. And when you are mixed between two plans, there is no real path to success, the team ends up in purgatory, not good enough to make the playoffs and not bad enough to add franchising altering talent in the draft and Intl FA. And the robbing tomorrow to pay for today is tired as well. Yeah he traded a lot of prospects. The vast majority of which sucked. I wouldn't mind if KW hit the road, but to think he is saddling Hahn, or another site I read said his quotes were "throwing him under a bus" are just made up based on nothing observations. Whether people want to admit it or not, JR is a pretty smart guy, and he has better access to KW/RH than any of us here. If he thought KW was the problem many here like to think he is, he would be gone in a minute. Hahn isn't a puppet. I don't believe KW when he said he has never overruled Hahn, I have a good source that says he has at least once, but sometimes a differing opinion and discussion is positive in the decision making process.

I wonder why that strategy hasn't worked the last 20 or 30 years. Players follow the money.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 09:34 AM) This isn't saying anything about Illinois relative to Miami, but you really underestimate how bad the B1G west is. Terrible, still 3 top 25 teams

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 06:45 PM) It's basically saying he can be though. He doesn't look anything near that now. Obviously he isn't if he hasn't done it. Posters mention players ceilings all the time. That is best case scenario. The problem IMO with Avi and a lot of White Sox players recently, is they are not high baseball IQ guys, and that hurts you in so many ways. You make bad decisions on the bases, in the field, and at the plate. It takes those guys longer to adjust back after pitchers and defenses have adjusted to them. While high ceilings are great, and you need to have these guys in your organization , relying on that being reached or coming close is fools gold.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 06:28 PM) Garcia’s biggest fan seems to be Executive Vice President Ken Williams, who made a comment to reporters prior to Thursday’s game about the young outfielder sporting a 30/30 ceiling. That is 30 home runs and 30 stolen bases in a single season. Williams made a similar comment regarding Garcia’s speed in February as reported by MLB.com’s Scott Merkin: Saying he has a 30/30 ceiling isn't saying he is a 30/30 guy. And if he could swing at pitches he could hit, he might reach that ceiling. Where they were way off was defensively. They thought he was a CF.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 06:03 PM) Same Sox management who said he was a 30/30 guy are the same wanting to trade him. Sox are lacking badly in talent evaluation. Do you have a link where someone in Sox management said he was a 30/30 guy?

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 12:45 PM) For those wondering if Walker can play 3B, he last played 3B in MLB in 2010. With the shortage of 3B, he could probably make himself some cash money if he figured out how to be decent there.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 12:12 PM) It wasn't just Baez, he would have been the centerpiece of a package. The Cubs still love Baez. There are some in their organization who think he would be a better SS than Russell.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 11:31 AM) I wonder if the Cubs would trade Baez for Avi and Danish/Beck/etc? Maybe if Hahn threw in Davidson.

If you can use him as a kicker for something you really like, you trade him, but if he has an option left, you don't give him away for junk. He does have talent. If he doesn't show up hitting this spring, and isn't changed by a trip to Charlotte, so what.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 11:15 AM) Does trayce signal youth movement or d movement? I think the latter. Swapping out Avi for Trayce adds 3 months to the White Sox age.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 11:04 AM) ok now i see the point. he was stating for having a bad start and then started about having confidence in the FO. ok. Kris Bryant's July makes me really question Theo.

QUOTE (bruni @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 10:35 AM) Eaton - poor 2 month+ start (along with several others) helped doom this team in 2015. Abreu - they won a bidding war on a guy who looks more and more like Trumbo since 2nd half 2014 than any player that can carry a team to the WS going forward. Furthermore he looks increasingly fragile and is better served as our DH vs 1B. Rodon and Fullmer - you and I could pick top rated undergrad pitching prospects - - this is not evidence of superior or even above average talent evaluation, but merely the byproduct at being a really bad team several years in a row. Montas - potential yes, but let's not make this out as a huge win at this time - - look at his ERA from his cup of coffee in the bigs last season. Power pitching without control does little good. Anderson - we don't know what he can do at the MLB level (and likely wont until late 16 or 2017) but so many are drinking the kool aid here. How many wins is he going to earn this team in 2016? In the meantime our current brain trust (in the middle of their "3-year plan", remember) put bottom 5 production at C, 2B, SS, 3B and RF and bottom 10 production at DH and LF. How do players like Anderson and Fullmer even make an impact in this '3 year' window? How you can point this as proof of a front office we should have confidence in is beyond me. Other than identifying Q as a lottery ticket to target, I fail to see much that gives me confidence in the current and stale 'brain-trust'. Yeah Abreu looks like Trumbo. GMAB.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 10:32 AM) Right because the Sox have never made a good trade or picked up guys undervalued by other clubs that turned out well for them. The Sox have done a very poor job of developing position players, but they've done OK in trades and international signings, this narrative that they're 100% incompetent when it comes to identifying talent is so lazy and tired. It really is. If someone really feels that way, they won't be happy with whatever hitter the White Sox acquire, and will be in rip mode when the deal is made. These guys do have a World Championship ring. They haven't developed hitters for a while but have recognized good ones through the years.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 05:57 PM) Prospects are currency. I understand that you disagree...you only want to look retrospectively. There is an opportunity cost as well. He overpaid for Garcia (yes it worked out; top 10 prospect in baseball and a starting catcher can fetch more than a mid rotation starter), Vasquez, Ritchie, Swisher (and then turned around and gave him away for non-prospects), Jackson, et al. I do 't disagree. KW got a lot of value for s***ty prospects. No he didn't overpay for Garcia. It helped him win a title. You could have watched Jeremy Reed fail with the White Sox or watch Freddy Garcia win the clinching WS game. Guys like Phil Rogers rank guys on BA and a lot of it based on BS they get from Minor league guys. You love the former, I choose the later. And Reed was never a top 10 prospect in baseball. I guess I am more interesting in how the player actually performs, not by what they are ranked before they play a major league game.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 03:25 PM) The Dbacks still make the most sense to me if theyre making a hard push for pitching. David Peralta, Jake Lamb, and Peter O'Brien would be a nice main package (maybe a B level SP prospect as well) for us in my opinion and wouldn't really dent their talent with Tomas and Drury ready to step in and start in RF and 3B. If the White Sox are trading Sale or Q and not denting a team's talent really badly, they didn't make a good trade.

I think the Cubs hype wins Arrieta the award. I also think being teammates hurts the other 2. Greinke was beyond awesome, but Arrieta finished the season crazy.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 02:34 PM) Yes, and then having daily conversations about it instead of letting Rick do the things he needs to do. This situation is unprecedented for a White Sox GM, and similar situations have led to resignations from some other high profile GM's. He is asking for Ricks plan and then discussing it daily, which would mean that he has a lot of feedback to the way that Rick wants to operate. Do you think JR asked KW what his plan was? KW is Hahn's boss. I don't find it unusual they talk about what is going on. KW was Hahn's boss when he got the job. Go back to the articles announcing the new arrangement. Hahn knew exactly what he was getting into. Exactly. I just don't understand the KW is dumb, Rick Hahn can do no wrong slant so many take. What is this based on besides nothing? Hahn was trained by JR and KW, the very two people some of Hahn's biggest fans think are total baseball morons. Hahn has been part of the White Sox decision process for years, has had numerous opportunities to jump ship, but didn't. There isn't a GM in baseball that hasn't been overruled a few times by a higher up. That's life. And you probably wouldn't have a problem with Hahn going on some radio show discussing what he has been discussing with other teams. But discuss that with his boss? Oh the humanity. In fact, I'd take it one further, I would bet when KW was the GM, he discussed his conversations with other teams with Rick Hahn, his underling.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 02:02 PM) I honestly don't think selling off and blowing it up would bring back as much young talent as people are hoping for. And young "talent" has a way of disappointing. It wasn't long ago many were concerned about the date Matt Davidson had to wait so he wouldn't be a super 2. If they traded Q, Sale, Abreu, and Robertson for prospects, they would IMO no doubt be considered a top 5 farm system in baseball. If you look at the supposed top farm systems in baseball 4 or 5 years ago, and look at their top 10 prospects, there aren't very many of them making much of a contribution these days.

The guy doing the MLBTR chat yesterdays said take what you would think is fair for Sale and double it. That is what he would cost. If they are going to rebuild, they can have one of the top ranked farm systems in a matter of minutes. The problem is, it's very rare prospects alone get you into contention quickly.

And people were worried they had no plan.................

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 10:54 AM) This quote from KW says it all and I agree. “I’ve been there so I certainly understand,” Williams said. “A lot of things are in play right now. I know it can be confusing, but it’s completely understandable from my perspective that this is what you do before you decide on the definitive plan.” There are so many uncontrollable variables involved and that's what these meetings are for. The Sox can't sit here say they want to trade for player A if player A is not available so its Hahn's job to have discussions with other GM's to see who's available and what the Sox players they might be interested in. Another variable is where JR sets the payroll ceiling at. Relax Sox fans, its mid November, not mid February. Too many fans reading way too far into nothing at all. Right. If every team had their plan in place, there would be a whole lot more player movement by now. There is no November 18th trade or signing deadline.