Harry Chappas

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 12:05 PM) We're definitely on the same page on this one. I'm not going to rehash some of the things that my perception has led me to regarding your posts. This sums up your thoughts pretty well. As an organization, I think the Sox have done pretty well - you never see me throwing out the blanket statements - JR and his group has been the best ownership group Chicago has seen, bar none, over its sports history. Have they made mistakes? Yep. Is the MB issue a "mistake"? Only time will tell. No matter what, I hope MB will be in a Sox uniform for years to come. I just don't think it is going to happen, and I think BOTH sides are playing the media like a fiddle. The truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle, and I also think that there's a lot more to this story then what's been leaked by both sides. Haven't both sides agreed that it comes down to a complete NTC. Is either side denying these reports?

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 11:09 AM) His no trade clause is in fact in effect for this season, which is why the squad asked him if he would waive it. Tihs would be very interesting because I think Contreras to the Mets makes the most sense considering how much Minaya appears to be interested in him. I'm personally surprised they would be so willing to go out and acquire another aging starter signed for another few years (especially as they are watching Pedro continue to break down). Still if you could get any one top prospect in a package for Contreras you do it. Whether thats Pelfrey, Gomez, Milledge, etc. If the Mets eat the contract, the Sox get nothing in return, a pure salary dump. For $5M a year KW could probably get a prospect that can produce. Thing is, he won't pay the contract and therefore would be very lucky to get anyone to take Contreras. Is he a FA after next season ala Garland? Does he have one or two years left on his deal......

QUOTE(Al Lopez @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 06:50 PM) One thing that could lessen Buehrle's trade value is named Roy Oswalt. If Houston decides to reload, and there was speculation on ESPN this morning that they might, Oswalt would be a more sought after pitcher, I would think. So if you want to maximize the return, don't diddle around. If Oswalt is dealt I bet it is to Atlanta. How about the Sox get in and try and get Oswalt in a three way deal including Buerhle......

This games looks to have as much offense as a good college softball game. 1-0 somebody and it will still be light out when it is over.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 09:55 AM) Not true, he was offering the same as Contreras, where next season he would have a NTC, but would transfer into a limited NTC beyond that. This deal would prevent KW from shipping him out next year. I agree with KW, this is a fair deal, and I don't want a precedant set where the Sox hands are tied. Wonder if MB is the one who wants to be traded in the future??? Then the Sox have to trade him to the team he wants for a s***ty deal. I'm not on board to position the team this way, regardless of the pitcher. Sign him with the offer on the table or move him. Thank you for posting this. KW can not sign and trade for the 900th time. Buerhle gets the same no trade clause as anyone else on this team. Look at the Contreras situation right now. What if he were pitching lights out and sould garner a great prospect or two right now and said he wouldn't waive it. Please read and comprehend the article before discussing the no trade clause argument. The deal sounds like a fair deal for all parties on the surface.

I think the deal presented is pretty fair and at he end of the day one Buerhle should accept. The Sox gave Contrearas the NTC in the renegotiated deal after the Yanks deal expired.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 29, 2007 -> 03:38 PM) Why were they holding the runner on? The Brewers looked a-lot like the White Sox today. Completely shut down after scoring early. There were a couple of managerial moves that were odd.

Cory Hart is doing his best Scott Podesednik impersenation of hte four outs the Brewers have made he has accounted for two by striking out. I thought the Sox were killing Hill early Saturday and the Brewers are today. Through 1.1 inning he has thrown 63 pitches.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 29, 2007 -> 01:20 PM) Or you REALLY don't want 30% of your payroll tied up in 2 players over the next 3 years, one of whom is a huge risk to be injured/ineffective some time over the life of the deal and leave you eating $14M+ for a few years. There's a pretty big downside to giving Mark 4+ years and ~$60M guaranteed. If Konerko, Buehrle and Garland are all still with the Sox in 2009, somewhere around $40M of probably an $85-$95M payroll will locked up in 3 players. How much of this year's salary is allocatted to the threeand four highest paid players?

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 29, 2007 -> 01:45 PM) Thread Hijack Brewers are pwning the Cubs 5-0 before the Cubs even bat Gallardo backed it up with a 7 pitch inning that included a strike out. Santo blames the off day. As a side note to why I follow this is I work up north and have to end my work around before the end of the cub game especially today with Taste.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 29, 2007 -> 11:04 AM) The ARod deal violated the MINIMUM...? Not even close. It's really moot to continue to discuss the union end. Obviously they are snooping around. If they didn't have an interest, they wouldn't be. If they do anything remains to be seen, but to say they can't do anything is ridiculous. They can do whatever they want - in terms of reviewing and holding things up, and they will if they choose to. I think they will ask questions and snoop really hard and they should but if they hold anything up and something happens to the deal, could they not be held liable? They can not prove what he is going to get in the open market. Buerhle needs to stay healthy and pitch well to get a huge deal. There is a huge risk should they cause the deal to fall through and something happens that precludes Buerhle from getting $56M guaranteed down the road.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 29, 2007 -> 10:18 AM) Ding ding ding!!! I was thinking more of Lance Johnson.

There is no way the union would block this deal. Are they on the hook for the contract should he blow his arm out Monday? They may be angry but they will not block the deal. A-Rod was giving money back (see about page 30 of this thread) If there are two deals on the table they can step in if one is for $200M and the other $30M. There is no guarantee that Buerhle gets more than $56M in the offseason, he very well may but the market is a funny thing. Remember when Kevin Brown and Mike Hampton got over $100M each. How come nobody got those type of deals again for years? They are bad deals and not guaranteed to be given annually.

Here is why I think this gets done. 1) There appears to be a better return on Contrearas than Buerhle. I think most teams feel Buerhle will resign in Chicago or St. Louis and therefore are leary about giving up good prospects. Buerhle is a solid pitcher but Contreras may have more upside as far as carrying a team ala 2005 (I don't see this but maybe). 2) Now KW sees if he needs to rebuild and can get more for Jose than Mark, he needs to try and resign Mark to kept a good rotation in tack and then move Jose ASAP but signing Buerhle needs to be in place before Contrearas can be moved. Therefore the rush to see what Buerhle will sign for. The Sox blowing really helped this and may in the long run be the best thing that happened to this organization rather than finishing 6 games back. 3)The White Sox fans understand pieces need to be moved and Mark fits the PR better than Jose therefore it is a win/win for the fans. Maybe not KW as he may not want to allocate that kind of money to Buerhle. 4) Dye can not be traded while on the DL and although it hampers the Sox at this time, he can be moved and DL'd by another team retroactively and heal there. I assume the receiveing team would be fully cognizant of the ails of Dye. This is why a package of Dye & Contrearas plus a good ML arm could net something pretty decent from a SD/LA at this time. 5) Hahn is going back to Chicago to finalize something. If a deal was not completed wouldn't he want to try and work through it....unless they are far apart and there is no chance for a signing. Also to answer a question I have been asking for three days.....Buerhle's agent lives in Tampa therefore he being there has nothing to do with a contract negotiation and hence his stating that he has nothing new. We find out later that the talks may have started with Hahn and the Buerhle family. Buerhle was on the Sox pregame yesterday and it sounded like there may be something to his wife wanting to stay and get a deal done. PURE SPECULATION from me but I would not be surprised if this was all completed between Hahn and family members and the last couple of days were all the offical stuff. KW does not deal with this stuff. IMHOFWIW

Sox lefties 0-9 with 3 K's

Kazmir at 100 pitches through 5. That is one of the benefits of striking out.

Anyone find it odd that it appears that Ozzie Guillen and Mark's family (dad/wife?) are trying to iron out this deal? So much for Guillen being on the hot seat by the way he seems to be confronting KW head on with this. Let me throw this conspiracy theory out there, do you think this is Guillen and Reinsdorf trumping KW or nudging him toward signing Buerhle? Could Vazquez be the KW guy that Guillen has tired of who now will be moved to rebuild? Hey, I like soap operas. I gotta tell ya I like that Gonzalez kid at least today I do. How bad of an infielder is he that Cintron and Uribe are getting at-bats. Juan Uribe should be arrested not for shooting flares at the Italian Navy but for armed robbery of the White Sox, Mackowiak and Cintron could be as well. Those 8th inning at-bats by Uribe and Mackowiak made my eyes hurt. Don Baylor is 58 today.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 02:48 PM) There probably isn't too much a difference to Buerhle if he makes $50 million or $100 million, but he would hate 20,30, 40, 50 years from now to find out there was. There's more than a couple of players who were apparently set for life, finding out otherwise. Also the union would be concerned about the effect it would have on similar pitcher's contract offers. It conceivable could lower the "market rate." You can be pissed off at the union all you want, but its probably been as successful as any in history. If he's considering signing this reported contract, you can be assured he's being pressured not to. There is no guarantee that there is a $100M contract out there for him. What is his value if he has a 5+ ERA the rest of the year. Also I go back to trying to pick where you want to play. I do not have the luxury of deciding to forego a ton of money to live whereeverI want so I can not speak of this personally but could he maybe only want to play four more years and raise a family and kick back and play with his kids? $50M goes a long way when your lifestyle is hunting and playing with dogs as oppossed to opening recording studios and building atrocious houses. If Buerhle plays in Chicago his wife is a few hour drive away from home as oppossed to palying on the coast where air travel is involved. Kind of sounds worth the $5 to $10M he could be giving up if you ask me but I am sentimental at heart and hate change.

Jason Hirsch looking like a nice pick-up. Rocks about to get swept. Zambrano's ERA falling like a rock.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 02:29 PM) But it would prove that he likes it here... waa, waa, waa, bla, bla, bla, yadda, yadda, yadda... Good grief. I like it at my job too but I aint working for less than my decided value. Lifestyle v. money What % of your family lifestyle would you be willing to give up for the money you will recieve in giving up that lifestyle? There is a gamble involved in turning down the money at hand and going blind into the offseason. The MLBPA gets involved if he turns down 7/$140M from Boston to take 5/$60 from St. Louis. I do not know Mark Buerhle nor do I know what he is thinking but is it possible he wants to stay close enough to home that it is worth a few million dollars. At 32 he could probably get a another nice deal if he so desired as oppossed to what he could get at 34.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 01:59 PM) I didn't post the comparison, so you can go debate that with the person that did. They will step in here because a player of Mark's ability should (and will) get more than $12M a year, and they will not allow the Sox to set the market that low to protect Mark as well as others. Bruce is going to lie on Mark's agent...? Are you serious? Oswalt signed a contract that could be described as below market value last year and he is a better pitcher then Buerhle. Buerhle is 2 and a half months off of a terrible season. Market value is a relative term. The union will not aid Buerhle should he play the season out and injure himself. As for Levine I personally can not stand the man. He seems to be the type of guy that would report something to make himself look good. The day Garcia was traded he was stating that the Sox would not be one of the teams in the running. Why would Buerhle's agent discuss anything with Levine? The agent really has nothing to gain by discussing this at length. What if the 4/$50M was the Spring Training deal and one the Buerhle camp is looking to take or work off of.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 01:45 PM) You bet your ass they would. If they get involved in this and Buerhle blows his elbow out next week who gives him the $50M he turned down? The Boston deal was A-Rod forfeiting money was it not? Buerhle is not giving anything away here.

Is Buerhle's agent in Tampa as reported? If so, did Bruce ask him why he is there and thus explain why this rumor should not be going on? I think Levine comes off as an egomaniac. He is also very biased toward the cub and would like nothing more than to keep the press away the Sox and focused on the cub.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 09:47 AM) Yes...yes...yes. I hope they can get someone to come into Tuscon's park and than I can start seeing the Sox play in the Phoenix area and never have to make that drive to Tuscon again. I thought the Indians had agreed to take ove the Tucson agreement.

I posted this is in a thread last week. Here is 4 yr $50M (actually $49M) scenario I laid out. Didn't Contreras and Garland sign the same deals? Did Jose get 4 years? He signed after 2005, was this for 2006-2008? Was his an extension for 2007-2009? Was Garland's a pure three years for 2006-2008 becasue he was arbitration eligible? With Buerhle you have to remember that Konerko and Thome will be coming off the books or valued at a lower price after year three. This is where Rick Hahn is invloved something like this 2008 - $12M 2009 - $12M 2010 - $15M So far 3 yr $39M with other starters on the books also player can opt out of deal 2011 - $20M guaranteed if 500 innings reached in first three years - Team buy out $10M if 500 not reached - player opt out as well Guaranteed 4 yr $49M - Potentially $59M if healthy or Mark can walk 2012 - $20M guaranteed if 700 innings reached through four years - Team buy $10M is 700 not reached - player can opt out as well This deal guarantees Buerhle 4 yr $49M but allows him to leave or renegotiate after year three and lets the Sox out of the deal for $10M if he is done prior to the start of year 4.