Texsox

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Apr 18, 2007 -> 09:28 AM) Nobody is more misinformed about guns than the media. They actually said something along the lines of "He used a .22, that's a very powerful gun." They also harp "semi-auto" over and over again. What handgun ISN'T semi-auto? Revolvers would not be considered semi-automatic. QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Apr 18, 2007 -> 10:55 AM) I remember this from my ballistics class. The instructor put 2 guns side by side. One was this pussy looking .22, and the other was a Glock 9mm. He then asked which one will you rather not get shot with. Everyone looked and said, the 9mm. More power. The instructor said he would rather get a round from a 9mm. Its a high velocity round, and a lot of times runs right through you. While the .22 is a soft round, and has a tendency to ricochet through the body creating a lot of secondary damage. This is the round where you see someone get shot in shoulder, and the bullet winds up in the liver. People think its a glorified BB gun, when it can and will kill you. An FBI agent once shared with me that he, and many of his colleagues, are more nervous from a .22 than a large handgun for another reason. The guy pulling the trigger is usually more intimidated by the 9mm and would flinch, start to recoil, etc. and many times drop the weapon after the first shot. The same guy with a .22 would just keep blip blip blip and is much more likely to hit you. I don't know about y'all but I'm much more accurate with a .22 than something larger. I also learned last night that many ROTC units have quit shooting .22 after a tragedy at a range. They have switched to non lethal weapons. I've been meaning to google that.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Apr 18, 2007 -> 09:40 AM) I'd rather have less blood baths and sad hunters than a society of trigger happy criminals. Take up fishing. Whaaaat? How is fishing and hunting even closely related? It's a logical as saying stop playing baseball and start boxing. Just a minor note. Carry on.

QUOTE(Jimbo @ Apr 18, 2007 -> 10:28 AM) I used to throw eggs at phelps when i was a student in lawrence..he loves his little attention. I hope your aim was true . . .

One of my favorite volunteer activities is sitting on Eagle Boards of Review, the final step a young man takes in becoming an Eagle. The two young men I met tonight make me feel very secure in our future. I could go on and on about both of their character, their ability to articulate well thought out concept and abstract thoughts. One has been accepted and is on his way to either Stanford or MIT, the other is a H.S. Sophomore and looking towards Texas Tech. They are involved in a wide range of activities and the kind of kids that any parent would be proud to call their own.

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Apr 17, 2007 -> 06:48 PM) I think most of his congregation is his own family. And the interviews I've seen, they believe it as much as the old man.

One of my Scouting lists reported that one of the wounded was an Eagle Scout and applied emergency first aid to himself and probably saved his own life.

QUOTE(mr_genius @ Apr 17, 2007 -> 04:11 PM) So, do you think he should be allowed to bring a group of protestors to the funerals? lets say they decide to protest on public land near the cemetary or church were services are being held, yelling through bull horns about how the kids 'got what they deserved'. Remember, you support protestors at funerals of soldiers who died in Iraq. not trying to start a fight, just wonder if you think these are "different". I support the rights of this human garbage to legally protest within the confines of local laws. It proves how strong our system of self government is and how we value the rights of individuals no matter how despicable they may be. When these idiots have free speech rights, I know that others have not unjustly lost theirs.

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Apr 17, 2007 -> 05:52 PM) That is an impossible question to answer. We know that zero was too few. The positives far outweigh the negatives. No, we know that two was too many. That is an absolute fact. He doesn't have a gun those people are probably alive. We can debate whether a few more people also firing would have added to, or subtracted from, the total.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 17, 2007 -> 05:35 PM) A piece of data probably worth adding to this discussion...in 2005, according to the FBI, there were a total of 5 murders on college campuses nationwide. That seems low. Glad to hear it, with my son packing off to school in a few months.

QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Apr 17, 2007 -> 05:06 PM) Again, you assume that everyone in the class or school is packing heat. Even in the most gun crazy of states, that would not be true. While the gun laws vary from state to state, not everyone can get a gun, and not everyone who has a gun can get a concealed carry permit. So how many, would have been too many, in this instance?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 17, 2007 -> 02:25 PM) Let me put it this way...I think that emergency management involves a specific set of skills that not necessarily every good manager would have. You have to be able to coordinate sudden shifts in everything under you, have half of your people out of contact, not know which information you're receiving is credible, and still manage to follow your procedures. With experience, I think that a lot of good managers would become good at that job. But I wouldn't want to just give it to a good manager if that manager had no experience in dealing with exactly that sort of crisis situation, even if that good manager was the richest man in the world. Anywho, it's not like we even got good managers into those jobs, so dah well. All things I agree with. I was thinking more in generalities, for example, I could see the CIA Chief coming from outside the Agency.

This is getting no where, so one post and I will probably shut up unless someone has a question. The scenarios I see with more and more people carrying. Guy robs a C-store waving a gun around. he's not planning to shoot anyone, (stats show there are more armed robberies that shootings). Cashier hands him the cash and off he goes. With more guns, he waves the gun and some good Samaritan pulls out a weapon and shoots, maybe they hit him, maybe not. The robber also starts to shoot, maybe he hits someone, maybe he doesn't. You see someone stopping this guy at VT before he killed more, maybe their shot(s) hit the mark, maybe more bullets flying results in more people getting hit. I see good Samaritans shooting while diving for cover and from too long a range to be accurate. So I see the potential for more deaths and injuries as well as the potential for less. I see more road rage turning ugly, not less, with more guns in people's hands. I see more domestic violence with more guns, not less. I see parents showing their kids by example that we should be afraid of everybody and violence is the answer. Deer and doves should fear me, others should not. Paper and clay are endangered around me, people are not. I believe the framers of the Constitution were smart enough to know they could not envision the world in 200 years and put in the ability to make changes. They also wisely made it very difficult.

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Apr 17, 2007 -> 02:03 PM) That's life. If I'm not armed and its the gunman, I'm dead anyway with no hope of defending myself. So as soon as you pull your gun as a good Samaritan, anyone, even one other good Samaritan, could shoot you and thems the breaks. You may or not be dead. Not everyone in that building was killed or even shot. Do I like the scenario of someone seeing him pull his gun and immediately killing the gunman with only one loss of life? Of course. But I am very uneasy about six or seven people pulling weapons and starting to shoot. I know what training is involved in Texas' carry training and what police officers receive. I'll stand on the side of law enforcement on this one. But of course law enforcement may be the evil tyranny we need to fight.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 17, 2007 -> 01:56 PM) I think that the Clinton administration is actually a good example. When Clinton came into office, it was shortly after Bush 1 had been criticized for the Federal Government's poor response to Hurricane Andrew. So when Clinton came in, he brought with him someone who not only he could trust, but who had experience in disaster managment; the guy who held the emergency management position in Arkansas with him, James Lee Witt. I'm not saying they were good picks, just saying that industry experience alone doesn't make or break a candidate. I like William Gates, and think there were any number of agencies he could have run.

QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Apr 17, 2007 -> 01:47 PM) Quit going to such crazy extremes for situations you know never exist. It dilutes what little credible argument you have. Noone argued anywhere that everyoone should be able to carry a gun. You and Tex made those assumptions in your fear-based statements. Southside irish raised the best points so far, without resorting to gross exagerations. I mentioned a dozen carrying in that building. At what point would there have been too many guns in that building? BTW, have could you add some links to children who have died playing with guns they have found? People who have had their own guns taken and killed with them. Depressed people who have shot themselves. You have to take the good with the bad in stats. As I said, I don't see effective home security with a locked up gun that needs to be unlocked and loaded. Leaving a loaded, unlocked gun with one in the chamber around for that split second when you need to defend your family versus the chance that one of my kids might find it and use it had me deciding for me and my family, I'd be better off with a home security system. QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Apr 17, 2007 -> 10:33 AM) No, I sure as hell don't. And if he makes a move at me, I fire. I will protect my own life (and the lives of my family) at all costs and above all others. So you don't drop yours when he yells drop it. And if he is an good Samaritan thinking just like you, and shoots you first, will you later shake his hand and say, hell yes, exactly what I would have done? Or perhaps have your wife tell him that at your funeral.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 17, 2007 -> 01:48 PM) Bush's first FEMA director, Joe Allbaugh, hired Mr. Brown originally at FEMA after he was fired from his horse trading job. Mr. Allbaugh came into that role with a very strong emergency management background; his main job beforehand was as head of Mr. Bush's 2000 election campaign. The 2 of them together presided over the rapid decline of FEMA from a professional organization that was constructed during the Clinton years to the joke we saw trying to respond to Katrina. Allbaugh left in 2003 to make a personal fortune by starting a company dedicated to helping other companies make money by getting contracts in Iraq. To be fair, a good manager doesn't exactly need industry specific skills. I'll take Bill Gates running a horse farm over a lot of people with experience. But, these guys maight have been over their heads running agencies that large.

I think he is great for America. Very few people can unite Dems and Reps like he can. Who here doesn't think he's the lowest form of human garbage that hasn't committed a crime, yet?

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 17, 2007 -> 11:54 AM) I actually think that Bush's biggest responsibility for Katrina that he failed on was before it happened - nominating a political cronie with zero EM background to head up FEMA. Yeah, that one bit him in the ass. Do we know who below Bush championed that pick? I assume Bush didn't do all the research on this.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2007 -> 11:13 AM) So then change the constitution, not laws. I know the whole "the framers couldn't have imagined.." arguement gets made, but that works both ways. Do you think the framers ever invisioned the impact that things like computers and cellphones would have on society? Do you think the framers ever invisioned women and/or blacks as equals? Do you think they ever thought women would be wanting to kill fetuses? If there is a problem, the constitution needs to change. If people think they are safer without guns, then they need to start working on a new consitutional ammendment, just like they did when they figured out that discrimination was wrong, even when constitutionally protected. I think we are agreeing, you did see the y'all aren't taking my gun away statement? I think the framers of the constitution were brilliant. In all of history it is arguably the second best written document. (insert your Bible here for number one). I think they created a living document that has proven the test of time by being flexible. When they wrote the Constitution, I couldn't imagine how most lived without a gun. Feeding yourself would have been difficult on the frontier. Native Americans and buffalo may disagree but they tamed the west as much as the steel plow. Today, I'm not convinced the framers would have built in the same protections. They are not necessary for survival.

Ok, no booing, can we laugh our asses off when he swings and misses?

QUOTE(RME JICO @ Apr 17, 2007 -> 11:05 AM) I can't blame the Rangers fans. The trade looks worse and worse everyday (for them). They are use to that . . . ^--- Ranger fans

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Apr 17, 2007 -> 10:42 AM) That that was ED, lol. In the Phillipines, the street vendors sell Viagra and Cialis...I've heard that a few men in their 50's and 60's have actually had heart attacks due to the use of "street Viagra." Luckily, I'm 37 and haven't had to go that route. The fastest growing age bracket with Aids is over 60, they call it the Viagra effect. Seems the old guys are turning to hookers when the ladies their age can't keep up with them. B-Mac will be fine in a season or two.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2007 -> 10:51 AM) What is interesting about this debate is that our constitutional rights aren't always the path of least resistance for government entities. Look at the attempts to limit free speech in the name of saving us from terror for example. It would be much easier for law enforcement to fight crime and terror if they could read everyone's emails, and listen to everyone's phone calls without worry, but they can't. The freedom of speech is protected, dispite the burden is places on law enforcement. For me the right to bear arms isn't any different. It might create bad situations, but this is a constitutionally protected right. As was the right for white men, and only white men to vote. The framers also put in a mechanism for amending the constitution when it no longer meets our needs. It would be nice if they wrote in reasons for some of this stuff, like perhaps why there is a 2nd Amendment Just wondering, y'all that think more people carrying would cut down on crime, does it matter the nationality of the gun owner?

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2007 -> 10:15 AM) I'll be reading the Trib on the train ride home. It is strange that he would file the numbers off of a legally obtained gun Perhaps he thought at one point he would get away and didn't want the guns traced to him?