Texsox

don't go there

Thank you Steff. In summary, I think the Israelis and Palestinians have been dealt a very unfair hand to play. Both sides have been wronged by the other. Violence does not stop violence Humans are basically capable of great good and great evil, sometimes at the same time. Some people are too dug in to compromise, and they are the negotiators. There are people involved on both sides that want the killing to continue if it means they may get 100% of whatever they are after Sending bombs and missles into neighborhoods is wrong. Killing anybody is wrong, in war, killing the enemy is justified, killing civilians is never justified Assassinations are wrong, especially if you have to kill others at the same time. You cannot sink the to the other side's depth of depravity and remain pure You cannot use one act of violence as justification for another and not be an aggressor at least once Sometimes killing someone just maks you feel better Sometimes watching your enemies mourn the loss of their people makes you feel better Some people are blindly loyal You can't wake someone who is pretending to be asleep What goes around comes around, be prepared The average Israeli and the average Palestinan have no control over this Terrorists do not follow orders or have honor, they are criminals. They do not have any code of ethics Soldiers have codes of ethics and honor. If the soldiers stoop to terrorist ethics and methods, they become terrorists. A uniform doesn't make the difference, behavior does.

Is Israel trying to be the moral equivements of the Palestinians? Is that how they judge their behavior, by those of the Palestinians? Doesn't that make them no better than the Palestinians? Is it intentional if you send a missle that is accurate to within 50 yards, into a neighborhood and it hits an innocents home instead of the person targeted? Is it intentional if you assassinate an innocent because he looked like a guilty person, or are these mistakes that Israel is allowed to make and still remain perfect? If a Hamas leader is sitting in a car with an unidentified person, is it ok to kill them both? I'm not saying these things have happened, just wondering how you define intentional? As I recall the US military speaks of unavoided damage, that not all weapons are perfect.

And the hit squad was treated differently, since they were Israeli, and received sentences from 2 to 5 years for the murders they served less than 24 months. If I follow I4E's logic this is ok because; There are no innocent Palistinians Since this was in revenge for the 1972 Olympics, any method is justified. How accurate is this account? Linky

And take Wirtz with you I guess SS2K4 doesn't understand the sentiment

Who says government work doesn't pay

Notice that OZ is already thinking about the moping Frank, the brooding, moody, Frank. I'm hoping Oz can keep Frank pumped.

That is redundant. That is redundant. That is redundant. That is redundant.

Is there anything that Israel cannot do to defend itself? Or is any tactic OK? Since innocent Israeli children have been killed, can Israel target innocent Palestinian children? Is it ok for either side to target specific leaders for assassination? Is it ok for either side to send missles into neighborhoods? If one home on the block has military personnel or terrorists, is it ok for either side to send a missle in, knowing innocent people may be killed? It seems to me that APU will defend almost any Palestinian action and I4E will defend any Israeli action. And they both use the exact same arguments. He did it first. His crimes are worse. Once again, it is so nice to hear that Israel has bever made a mistake. Their bombs and missles never strayed, never hit innocents. They have never once acted out of revenge. Never once lacked restraint in acting. Never once used violence against them as justification for violence towards the Palestinians. Always followed INternational Law. Oops, they just violated International Law, except I4E doesn't seem to think International Law aplies to Israel, only if Israel needs to be defended. If you believe revenge is ok, then you have to agree that Palistinian acts of revenge on the recent assassination is all fair game. As long as both sides think they are justified in killing, killing will continue. And I think some people will be glad. Better death than to compromise.

Break Dancing?

Me too. What also makes this tricky is the "innocent until proven guilty" assumption of our legal system. To balance the victim's rights, we have to assume some guilt on the part of the accused. This is one area where is seems all or nothing.

I do not think anyone was all that upset, except the Palestinians. From a distance, it just seems all so futile.

And how often do you think that occures vs. actual sexual assaults?

If it was an affair, the accused will be able to prove consentual very quickly and the accuser would be in jail. I thought of that, and if a young girl's parents caught her. Any others? I think the cases of false accusations are small compared to unreported crimes.

I am cooly balancing attitude vs. talent. I think we lost some talent, but the attitude seems so much better. When Frank comes out and says he'll bat 4th, if that makes the team better, you know there has been a seismic shift in the club house. I think the atitude will make up for the talent loss. Add some guys getting better, Crede, Lee, Olivo. Some guys hanging on as they get older, Frank, Valentin. Some guys getting back on track, Kong, Koch. Mags having another All-Star season, and we may have some post season fun. Even without postseason fun, I think the team will be much more fun to watch. I may even buy the season long cable package.

I agree 100%. Don't forget Crede, Lee, and Olivo getting one year better. But if you factor in the same scenario across the board with Minny and KC, they would still be ahead. Especially with the experience angle. I do not see it as a slight in the least to have us pegged for 3rd. 4th I cannot believe unless we have some major blowout of talent at the All Star break. I see us in the race all season. Any of the 3 could win it this year. I think KC may be a bigger threat than Minny. But either are beatable.

I cannot think of too many besides blackmail. But to actually report it as a crime, I can only think of one or two. This is a difficult area. The old question for debate was "can a prostitute be raped at work?" I've heard some claim no, that it would be theft of services, but not rape. Others claim that yes, a prostitute can be raped. The other point is argument, which seems to be the case here, since it seems she engaged in some foreplay. At wat point can a woman say no and have it be rape? Before penetration? During penetration (imagine proving this one)?

Rugby Players! I am shocked! Of all the athletes I've ever met, rugby players are the wildest. Do they elephant walk there?

I agree in principle with everything you have said. My thought, although not complete, is this; since the US and other countries have kept Israel viable for all these years with military and economic support, shouldn't Israel be concerned about taking action that is against their biggest benefactors wishes? The world is forced to simultainously defend and criticize Israel, which is embarrasing. "You know assassinations are wrong, here's $100,00,000 to get you through the month." Would it be fair of those countries supporting Isarel to say " we support any and all measures to peacefully work towards a resolution. If you follow our lead, we will continue to send money. If you decide on an all out war, you are on your own."? Every President since Carter has pcitures of smiling Palestinians and Israeli negotiators. And every President has watched this go down the tubes. I do not think the US could finance an Israeli all out war against its Arab neighbors. And Israel would not be successful without US Aid. Bottom line, do y'all think it is in Israel's best interest to go against their biggest benevactors wishes and should the US continue to finance action that we condemn?

Nuke, After you get done fixing the world, from street gangs to terrorist operations, are there any buildings standing? How long until people who have no homes begin to riot? The only solution you see seems to be at the end of a tank or missle. Do you really believe its time to destroy civil law and resort to military operations everywhere?

Do they get extra credit in Science Class?

Are some people forgetting that death is not a problem for these people? They use suicide bombers. You can keep killing them, but it isn't going to make a difference. Three more will take their place. When you are fighting for something you believe that strongly about, you do not fear death. This reminds me of the bomb them back to the stone ages mentality in Viet Nam. They were there already, so it made no difference.

Yes it is. The things we do for the world and get zero credit for. :headshake

Anyone else like mustard on french fries?