Texsox

There are limits with this type of forum. We all make assumptions about each other that may be spot on, but often times are way off.

Lets back away from this.

Best post in this entire thread. Hell, I think he could attract more than black kids.

Instead of an office, use a retail business. Everywhere employees are within ear and eye shot of the paying customers there are standards. How you dress, how you look, covering tattoos, cutting your hair, your language.

j/k Let's start cracka ?

Yes it is. Which is why to avoid the slope you have to have objective, not subjective, criteria. Imagine if an umpire gets the race of a player wrong and either ejects him from a game or doesn't.

I agree 100% if MLB stops here. I'm hoping they toss and suspend players whose use would be considered racially insulting for four or five days.

Sorry, but it seems like I'm the only one taking a position against Tim using the word in this situation. Again, sorry for assuming you meant me. ✌️

I think you are missing the point. Tell me where you disagree I do not believe that Tim deserved a suspension. I do not believe Tim was using the word in a racially insulting way. I believe that there is no place for the n***er word anywhere. I believe that the n***a word is perfectly fine when spoken by certain groups. It is fine in the clubhouse. It is fine in the dugout, it is fine in clubs. I believe those same groups who use the term are rightfully insulted when other groups use the word. I believe that baseball, to avoid insulting portions of their fan base and society at large, should punish any player who uses the er version and any player whose use of the n***a word would be interpreted as offensive on the field. (note this leaves out Tim) I believe that setting up a situation that umpires would be tasked with making certain they heard an er or an a, identifying the race of the player involved, deciding if that person should be allowed to use the term, and then making the call is not going to work. Therefor to have a policy that punishes racist players for using the n***a or n***er word there must be zero tolerance. What a PR nightmare if an umpire fails to correctly identify the race of a player. I'm trying to understand why you think I am threatened by not being able to dictate what is being said. Unless you believe that everyone should be able to use any version of the word. Actually I am trying to stop white people from using the word.

I hope the decision was he needed an off day so get it over with and don't wait until it would be really inconvenient. I really wish he appealed. Suspension, even one game, doesn't find the situation.

Actually Schwarber should have been suspended and Anderson should have been ejected.

I get there is a difference. I also get that it is 100% acceptable in regular conversation for some people to use the n***a word and pretty much no one can use the er version. I also understand the root of the usage and taking a once painful word and subtly changing the spelling and pronunciation. I actually love the irony of it. That's why I easily differentiate between a greeting among players and friends which no action is necessary and something yelled in an argument. Not everyone wants to make that distinction. Now do you think umpires should be in charge of deciding the race of a player and if it is acceptable for that player's race to use the word?

Don't understand the meaning of the word? OK, I'll bite. What is the meaning of the word? Give me a synonym that makes sense in "you're a weak ass ___" that isn't used as an insult? I fully understand how it is used in songs, among friends, etc. And I don't have a problem with that. He used it in anger while insulting the guy. That moves the meaning closer to 1969 than 2019.

He's being defended because based on the reports he used a racial slur than in everyday conversation he would be allowed to use. Which leads to MLB being attacked as being insensitive to the cultural norms in the black and Latino communities. MLB is being defended because umpires would have to first identify the race of the player, understand if social norms allow him to use that word, then make a decision.

What I was directly responding to was the statement that you can't suspend someone for language (words). He didn't specifically say Tim and my response was not specific to Tim's situation. Which once again I will say Tim should not have been suspended. You can and should suspend some people for language. Until we are able to definitely conclude someone's thoughts and intents all we can only respond to the words they are using. Objective not subjective is the clearest standard.

I can't imagine what it must be like for the driver of the car.

Another great example. Could you imagine the batting cage at practice looking like the range at a PGA event? Players all lined up with their personal coaches (that they pay for).

Weak ass (buddy, pal, friend etc)? Who adds that to an insult in an argument? But perhaps TA wanted him to know that despite his deeply held belief that he was "weak ass" they were still friends. I'm also trying to think of a greeting that can't be reciprocated. But it really doesn't matter. They were in an argument on the field and Tim insulted the umpire. That gets you tossed from the game. As insults go, I think this rose to the level to get tossed. If he had stopped at weak ass, or said that was a weak ass call, I'd argue he should not have been tossed. I'll bow out. But to summarize . . . I believe he should not have been suspended. Insulting an umpire rarely gets a suspension and I do not believe this rose to the level that warranted it. I'm factoring in he's a black man shouting it at a weak ass white guy. He should have been tossed from the game. End of story. If you want to stop the groups that we all know should not use that word in any form you have two choices. Deny everyone's use of the word or ask umpires to use their judgement to determine what the race of the person using the word is and how they are using it. This becomes unenforceable. I don't want umpires guessing at the race of the person. I don't want them looking at the back of jerseys for names before making a ruling. So toss everyone out and use suspensions as the leveling. The John Rockers of the world sit out a few games, the TAs of the world are back in the lineup the next day. Maybe eventually the word in all of it's connotations stops becoming an insult used to hurt people. And of course if players are using the word in the modern usage as a friendly greeting among friends do nothing. Only if it's used the way it was used in the past as an angry, ugly, insult.

What don't I get? I pass along what my high school students in San Antonio have told me over the past five years. You tell me it isn't true. OK. Those kids are wrong.

And I'm saying kids tell that when kids are just hanging around singing to the music, (you know not famous professional singers doing their own songs), just kids hanging around, not everyone should use the same energy. ? If it ain't cool in a regular conversation, it ain't cool belting it out in a song.

As you know famous people always get passes. But if I see them, I'll pass it along. I'll also tell my black students that SoxAce thinks they are wrong. I'm sure it will change their minds.

All of those are from before he was born. But I would hate to see history repeat itself. I guess I should have mentioned Ozzie and praising Castro.

In this case I believe he is correct. But you can. and should, suspend someone for words. Marge Schott, Al Campanis, John Rocker are all great examples from Baseball of suspending someone for words.

That may be a Chicago thing, but in San Antonio, you better be real buds or it will be perceived as insulting. At least with high school kids. The tricky part is negotiating song lyrics. As one of my students once told me, don't sing that word with too much energy unless you are black. I don't believe if TA used it to say hello to a friend there would have been an issue. He used it to insult and demean someone in an argument. I don't think it is splitting hairs to see a difference. But again as soon as we rely on umps to make judgement calls, things get really messy.

But it's common sense among umpires who can, and who cannot, use the word.