Texsox

QUOTE (Gregory Pratt @ Aug 7, 2008 -> 11:46 AM) Whenever I have baseball Hall of Fame or history questions I take them to Baseball-Fever.com, and I recently took Harold there. It got merged into a different Harold Baines thread/poll, where the answer is overwhelmingly no. Take it for what it's worth, but most people don't think he was ever an elite player and the only reason we're having this discussion is that he platooned for a long time accumulating raw totals. Also that this is a Sox board. I suppose that Angels forums would have similar discussions in favor of someone like, say, Garrett Anderson. Every team has guys like this who aren't good enough for the Hall of Fame but are great franchise players. Most hits and RBIs of anyone not in HoF. All the players ahead of him on those lists are in, and many players behind him are in. And hits and RBIs are not obscure stats. So a Sox board is the only place fans could make that argument. He's a long shot, and if he had the same stats in 3 or 4 less years, he'd be a pretty solid pick.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 7, 2008 -> 11:45 AM) I agree but you still see the occasional poll on sports websites and hear talk radio discussion about the issue. Baseball writers will reagard him as the best pwer hitter "non juicer" in the 1990s. His lack of interviewing charisma and pouty nature not withstanding.

"So Barry, any other side effects from steroid withdrawl?"

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Aug 7, 2008 -> 12:36 PM) Then why can't Jim Rice get in? Compare his 162 game averages to those of Harold Baines. Both are close. And I respect your comment about accumulators. There has to be a balance. Having a couple great seasons should not be enough, and perhaps having 22 above average seasons is also not quite enough. But I respectfully disagree he has "no where near" HoF numbers. And if there was ever a player where I would want to consider factors like character and class, here it is. I think baseball should consider that when looking at some of these borderline players. Who has made baseball better by their role?

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Aug 7, 2008 -> 12:30 PM) Knight: Just a suggestion with the top Sox players. Maybe a sub-forum on the PaleHose main bored so that all of them are in one place and easier to see. Just a suggestion because it would be cool to see them all in one place rather than sporadically placed. He's planning on a consolidated list. But this keeps the comments together and in a more linear organization by player. And fwiw, it's favorite, not top. Two different lists. I'm thinking Frank may or may not win this one, but he clearly wins top player.

QUOTE (YASNY @ Aug 7, 2008 -> 12:26 PM) If he played for New York or Boston, he'd make it. See Billy Pierce vs. Whitey Ford. Winning championships is always a plus.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Aug 7, 2008 -> 12:12 PM) No especially when he played for 22 seasons. I don't hold accumulators in as high regard as some. Then never mention career numbers. His 162 game averages were .289/.356/.465, 22 HR, 93 RBI, 120 OPS+. and he rarely devaited from that. Shame his knees did not hold out, or we would have been talking first ballot or not.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Aug 7, 2008 -> 12:05 PM) Harold Baines doesn't have anywhere near hall of fame numbers. He has the most RBIs and hits of anyone not in the HoF. 40th All-Times in Hits 51st in Home Runs 27 in RBIs. If there are more than 40 or 50 guys in the HoF, I don't think it's accurate to say "Harold Baines doesn't have anywhere near hall of fame numbers". That makes him sound like Pods.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 7, 2008 -> 10:53 AM) I also saw Luzinski and Kittle hit roof shots. My god what blasts. And of course Dick Allen deep liners to cf. The Bull could hit the ball. I forgot about him. He was one of my favorites too. I wonder what he's doing now and how big he is. He was a likeable lug sort of like Kruk only more powerful. He owns a BBQ concession at Philly's stadium. Still a huge fan favorite in Philly.

I had forgotten about him until you asked me to write his bio. He was just before my time. I'm surprised he was higher then Luzinski.

I see too many of our posters were not around for the 1983 season. For the guys on this board, imagine your kids leaving off Dye or Konerko from their favorite Sox players. That's what I'm thinking as I see he's only on 4 lists.

^^^^^^ It seems the old fashioned cassette adapters actually worked better.

QUOTE (kapkomet @ Aug 5, 2008 -> 10:21 AM) Ahh yes, everything's a conspiracy. My take is why does it take 5+ years for crap like this to come out? If it happened, it would have been out well before now. Like who Deep Throat is/was? Some people are good at keeping secrets, which is why they are in the upper reaches of government and military. Not saying I agree with this, but the timing isn't something that concerns me.

QUOTE (YASNY @ Aug 6, 2008 -> 08:31 AM) Harold more than likely won't make the Hall. The 'Greatest White Sox' should be a HOF'er. In my opinion, Aparicio's not getting enough love. I think Frank needs to make the Hall as a DH, then the Veterans Committee, in the future will vote in Baines.

I heard Nolan Ryan say that no one will come close to his longevity for the exact opposite reason as you mention, kids do not throw enough. They never develop the arm for the long haul. We baby them too much. I had a coach who would not let us swim the day of games. Felt it tired out our arms and legs too much. We obeyed him too.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 6, 2008 -> 08:40 PM) I wore a Sox jersey to a department function out here once, a lady approached me and asked about it, turns out she was good friends with Kelley. Right around the time he had that brief stint with the dodgers. Closest thing I have to a real connection to anyone. QUOTE (TCQ @ Aug 7, 2008 -> 07:55 AM) Woah thats kinda depressing...Ill be your friend if you want Classic and POTM worthy

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 6, 2008 -> 08:40 PM) I wore a Sox jersey to a department function out here once, a lady approached me and asked about it, turns out she was good friends with Kelley. Right around the time he had that brief stint with the dodgers. Closest thing I have to a real connection to anyone. QUOTE (TCQ @ Aug 7, 2008 -> 07:55 AM) Woah thats kinda depressing...Ill be your friend if you want

When my son first started playing t-ball his coach played in an over 30 "real baseball" league. When I mentioned I was a catcher, he asked if I'd like to come practice with his team. They have drafts at the start of the seaosn, and I would not be able to play that season, but if I liked it, and was "half way decent" (this will come back), I would probably be drafted the following year. Catchers are in high demand and low supply. So I quickly agreed and made plans for their upcoming practice. As I was at the sporting goods store, buying a cup, I started getting nervous. Later, I added to Jim's Life Rules No male over the age of 30 should be involved in any activity that involves *themselves* wearing a cup. As I got behind the plate, it felt good. The ball was popping into my old glove (yes I saved it). Then the batter stepped up and the pitcher started adding some velocity. Ouch, Damn, s***, where did all the padding go?? s***, someone is going to get hurt and it will be me. Then he announced he was going to work on his curve. Now his curve?! Those were fast balls with 20" of movement??! At this point I'm stopping about one out of three. Then they want to see my arm to second. When in the last 15 years did they move second base to the outfield? Two hops and a roll and I got it there. Finally, a curve ball in the dirt had me shooting out to the side and blocking. As the ball bounced off my chest protector all the air in my body said f*** it! we're out of here. As I layed there struggling to breath it occured to me that 12" may be better. But they graciously agreed to let me hit. After connecting on a couple of weak line drives to first, the pitcher cranked it up to game speed. Holy s***! I was out of the box and thinking how happy I was that I didn't buy spikes as well. Turns out most of these guys played college and more than a couple were drafted and/or minor league experience. Waaaaay out of my league.

I'd tell him there was some A-1 in the bathroom, then lock him in until the police arrived.

Best of luck to him. Easily one of the best football players I've ever watched.

Good luck Freddy.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 6, 2008 -> 11:43 PM) Rudy wasn't a first rounder. So you would like AJ more if he was drafted lower? I never factored in draft position into whether I was a fan or not. I could not tell you draft position of anyone on my list except for Baines. I have a difficult time understanding how that works, "I really enjoy watching John Doe play, he's one of my favorites" "Did you know he was drafted in the 1st round?" "really!? he's washed up then, I take that back, I don't like watching him play!" BTW In my top five is a starting pitcher who lost 20 games one season.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 6, 2008 -> 11:25 PM) Well then you're f***ed in the Heads22. And I get the idea of the list... my favorite was AJ Pierzynski. He, however, has been a regular starter for years and a key member of the 05 Championship team, not a backup who never lived up to his hype. Might as well put Joe Borchard... I mean, he even compares him to Aaron Rowand, who had better be #1 on his list if emulating Rowand was worthy of #2 or else it's just stupid. EDIT: This does not mean I dislike Alex, he and I get along great, but BA #2 I had to call that out. Ever watch the movie Rudy? Anyone else on that team have a movie made about them? f***ed in the head? To use playing ability as a critieria and rank AJ above Fisk is hilarious. You know, the guy in the HoF, lifesize statue at US Cellular, Retired White Sox number??

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Aug 6, 2008 -> 10:58 PM) BA is a good 4th oufielder with the Sox who could be an above average starting CF on another team, that's about it. Back in the early 90's, Bulls fans would begin chanting Granville - Granville near the end of home wins. Much like a Red Auerbach cigar, it signaled a Bulls victory. Granville Waiters was a Bull fan favorite, and he was one of the worst players in the NBA. http://www.granvillewaiters.com/ So I do not believe playing ability and fan favorite is synonymous. And a 4th outfielder is almost tailor made for fan favorite. The little guy who could. Against the odds. The underdog.

Texan - 'nuff said