witesoxfan

Can we get him some diskarmor?

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 21, 2013 -> 10:41 AM) I'm have to think that was said with tongue firmly planted in cheek though you never know with Elrockin. That's why I said it. I appreciate the enthusiasm and optimism, but it's simply not going to happen. Knowing that it is technically mathematically possible, the Sox coming back and winning the division is not possible. If it was tongue in cheek, I got played like a fool

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 21, 2013 -> 10:10 AM) I think we may be making a move on the Tigers. Sox playing good ball now and slowly cutting into Detroit's lead. Hang in there Sox fans! Stop. (for reference's sake, if the White Sox went 38-0, the Tigers would have to go 16-21 to eliminate the White Sox. If the White Sox lose 5 games, the Tigers have to go 11-26)

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 21, 2013 -> 10:04 AM) I figured he would be but part of my wondering was how many starts would he have to make once he's called up to not be listed as a prospect any more much like the AviGar situation. I believe they typically use 45 service days. Unofficially, there are only 41 service days left. He could be called up today and still retain rookie and prospect eligibility heading into next season.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 20, 2013 -> 06:43 PM) Astros have played too "well" for the Sox to catch them. It's game on vs the Marlins to see who gets the 2nd spot. It's definitely a weird feeling hoping the Cubs win. I really don't even worry at this point. You primarily want a top 5 pick. The #1 pick has historically been the best bet, but there's really not a lot of variation 2-5. What would be nice to avoid would be winning like 28 of 38 from here on out.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 21, 2013 -> 09:50 AM) He'll be in the 60-75 range, IMO Yep, I think that's about perfect. There will be one who doesn't list him and one who lists him in the top 50, and a few will freak out.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 21, 2013 -> 09:37 AM) I wonder if he makes some top 100 lists next year . He will make a lot of them Not that it matters, because one has much better stuff than the other, but it's fun to look anyways Jameson Taillon - 128.1 IP, 128 K, 46 BB, 9 HR, 1.35 WHIP, 3.79 ERA Erik Johnson - 130 IP, 118 K, 34 BB, 7 HR, 0.97 WHIP, 2.01 ERA That is 20 G (19 GS) at AA and 3 GS in AAA for Taillon and 14 GS at AA and 8 GS in AAA for Johnson.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Aug 20, 2013 -> 08:43 PM) ITT: Chase Headley never hit 31 HR with a 7.2 WAR, or even ever had a 4.4 WAR season, and he is only worth Scott Snodgress. He's also had a seasons with 1.4 WAR, 2.3 WAR, and this year he is at 2.5 WAR. There is precedent for him being a relative underachieiver and being a mediocre player. Beyond that, he's a free agent after next season and could command anywhere between $8 and $12 million annually, potentially signing a 4 year deal for $48 million deal heading into his age 30 season. That legitimately could be as poor as a Teahen or Dunn type deal.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 20, 2013 -> 09:00 PM) Any reason to get excited about A. Lopez? Looks like they have him on the Nate Jones path as of now. 90 K's in 59 innings in relief. Mid 90s 4 seam with a slider, change, and developing 2-seam/sinker. http://baseballdraftreport.com/2012/09/06/...b-draft-review/ http://network.yardbarker.com/all_sports/a...erview/13594766

QUOTE (TheBigHurtIsBack @ Aug 20, 2013 -> 11:48 PM) Amen. Does anyone really give a f*** about what he did? Did he cheat at the game? Did he take PEDs? Unless something he did unfairly impacted what he did as a player, it shouldn't matter. Period. Pete Rose should be in the HoF, no question. As far as greg goes, why does anyone even bother trying to reason with him anymore? Lost cause if there ever was one. You can't bet on games you are involved in. That's been the #1 golden rule in baseball since its inception. Pete Rose broke that in a big way. He knew exactly what the f*** he was doing.

Regarding bWAR and fWAR for hitters, it appears the biggest differences are defensively. Both use wRAA (and wOBA to calculate that) to calculate the batting value. http://www.fangraphs.com/library/misc/war/ http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/wa...ined_wraa.shtml fWAR uses UZR to determine defensive value, bWAR uses DRS for players after 2003 and TZR for players before 2003. Also, the positional adjustments are slightly different as well. Here's fWAR Catcher: +12.5 runs (all are per 162 defensive games) First Base: -12.5 runs Second Base: +2.5 runs Third Base: +2.5 runs Shortstop: +7.5 runs Left Field: -7.5 runs Center Field: +2.5 runs Right Field: -7.5 runs Designated Hitter: -17.5 runs and here's bWAR 1.C: +10 runs 2.SS: +7.5 runs 3.2B: +3 runs 4.CF: +2.5 runs 5.3b: +2 runs 6.RF: -7.5 runs 7.LF: -7.5 runs 8.1B: -10 runs 9.DH: -15 runs 10.P: see Pitcher Positional Adjustment

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 20, 2013 -> 04:16 PM) Frankly, I'm just sick of losing and being one of the worst teams in baseball and IMO Lexi's errors have contributed to that greatly. He's not the only guy obviously whose weaknesses have turned the Sox into a joke of a team, though. Hope he excels next season. I 100% believe your opinion is dead wrong and that Konerko and Keppinger have been the biggest reasons, if you want to single out individual players. I am going to prove you wrong too (because those are 20 isolated plays, odds are incredibly small that more than one directly affected the outcome of the game, but it's certainly possible) I got about halfway through all his errors and found about 3 games where his error "contributed greatly," but this is not including plays where he gets to balls that normally would have been runs. This is also not including other players who have made errors, and is also not including other guys failing in spots where they should succeed. I'd be unfairly isolating the 20 very poor plays Alexei Ramirez has made this season. No, they have not been good for the Sox, but nobody is perfect. The overall numbers say otherwise and suggest that he's been one of the most valuable players on the team.

I didn't realize he was already 29. Still, he seems to be a pretty good defensive 3B while generally showing an above average bat. He might not be the 145 wRC+ guy he showed last year, but I don't think he's the 99 wRC+ he has shown this year either. I think he'd prove to be an above average bat with good defense and mediocre to poor base running. The question remains how long he can do that. Even if you trade for him, how long can you realistically expect him to stay healthy and productive? That's where I toe the line. They can have Rienzo and Mitchell then. There's just no legitimate way I can deal them one of the stud lefties

If the Padres aren't going to resign Headley, and they need pitching that badly, why couldn't you just deal them Rienzo and Snodgress for Headley? Personally, I have no problem with that deal.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 20, 2013 -> 03:40 PM) I have no problem keeping him. I like him on the team. But he's got to cut the errors. He's really been just fine defensively. He's probably going to set a career high, but not by much. Beyond that, errors are not the worst things in the world. I'm also guessing that, if we had this stuff in the 50s and 60s, and we were both alive, you'd be b****ing about Aparicio too.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 20, 2013 -> 02:56 PM) I was just responding to el Rockin's line "fans can be so unforgiving." I think they are very forgiving re. the Sox. I didn't start a thread or anything calling for the booing of all the Sox. Nobody on here has buried Lexi despite all the key errors. Alexei has a 2.5 fWAR and a 2.4 bWAR. Both are tops on the team amongst offensive players. You can list all of the "key errors" that you'd like, but Ramirez has more than made up for it doing everything else and has done more than anyone could ask of him to help this team win games. Konerko, Keppinger, and Viciedo are the biggest culprits this year by far. Together, they've managed to combine for -3.2 fWAR. An average 3B, 1B, and LF - meaning 2 WAR each - and the Sox go from 49-74 to 58-65.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 20, 2013 -> 02:20 PM) Our fans have been very forgiving. Have you looked at the Sox record? These guys are sleepwalking through a miserable season. There's not been a lot of booing at the Cell. Comments on here have given so many players the benefit of the doubt. OK, point them out. If you are going to say that people are essentially giving players a free pass and are not just blatantly calling out players they have biases against, then point them out to me. Do the research, copy the posts, and show us. Show us where people say "it's OK that Paul Konerko has had a terrible year, he's old" or "it's OK that Jeff Keppinger has been one of the worst players in the majors, he's just a bench player" or "Viciedo will get better because he's still young." Nobody is HAPPY that the team has been terrible, but at this point, there's no coming back, so all we can do as fans is accept that the team is bad, look at the bright side, and move on. If you sit there and you pick and stress about how bad this team is in an already lost season, you're going to die young.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 20, 2013 -> 01:08 PM) The highest pitcher total for WAR is 7.0 to Clayton Kershaw. So that stat is telling me that Kershaw should have 7 wins and no pitcher should have more than that at the around the 25 games started mark? The best pitcher in baseball should have won about 1 in 3.5 of his starts this year? Not quite. The Dodgers are 72-52. Theoretically speaking, if you replaced Kershaw with a replacement level player, they'd be 65-59, which is obviously an incredible disparity. I think you're looking for an equivalent to W-L record. About all you can figure is that, if you assume a guy to win half and lose half (because we're dealing with a hypothetical league of replacement level players) with 5 ND's through 25 starts, every pitcher is 10-10. In this instance, Kershaw would be - again theoretically - 17-3. If you want to consider it in that context, that's about the best comparison that can be made.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 20, 2013 -> 12:00 PM) This seems to be consensus around here, and I'd like to see it happen. If I had my choice, I'd move Santiago and try to extend Quintana. I am frankly comfortable with either moving forward, so I would look to move the one who gets me the best return.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 20, 2013 -> 10:56 AM) It would be interesting to see if someone could come up with a way to isolate factors such as defense and run support while factoring in their own ERA and other pitcher numbers, to get some sort of an expected win total to see which pitchers "out-perform" their expected win totals. FIP, xFIP, fWAR

QUOTE (farmteam @ Aug 20, 2013 -> 10:19 AM) I think there is some value to wins, but much less than other metrics. Also better when measured over a long period of time, not just a single season. There's something to be said for a guy who does enough to keep his team in games enough to win them, even when his other stats aren't that good. Is there a specific way to quantify that? Maybe not. But if over the course of a few years a guy routinely has more wins than his other metrics say he should, then I'm going to give him some credit for that. It's going to tell me that he was on a team with a good offense.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Aug 19, 2013 -> 04:47 PM) Eh, for a whopping 6 episodes in a single season. After that they just wrote her out of the show completely. This is true, but that's because the new one sucked. Writing her out was a good thing

These are essentially the foundational arguments that have led to the evolution of baseball. The entire goal of baseball is to win, and anyone disputing that is wrong. But how do you win? Well, you score runs and prevent the other team from scoring runs. But then how do you do that? Defense, pitching, and hitting. This goes on for 100 or so years and, we come up with logical reasons and solutions, and we get to the point we're at now. Really, OPS is obsolete anymore among saberheads (though when used in context, it is still a decent barometer of offensive effectiveness). 10 years ago, it was rather cutting edge. Times change and they do so quickly.

You know, if Konerko had just not sucked in 2003, the Sox might have won the division that year and they certainly would have won the World Series too. Better yet, Jerry Manuel would be hailed as the greatest White Sox manager of all time and he'd be going on his 15th year of service with the team. Damn that Paul Konerko, YOU RUINED JERRY'S LIFE!

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Aug 19, 2013 -> 11:40 PM) Interesting point: The FO asked Dunn to change his approach going into this year despite his "productive" 2012. Even in his comeback year management insisted he change his approach. So many of you cling to his 41 HR 100 RBI as production, like he wasn't a problem last year. Management disagrees with you...why is that? I think I know. 110 hits. That's right. 110 hits all year out of the 3-hole. That's a minimum of 52 games without a hit. Lucky for everybody I did the math. He actually went hitless in 69 games last year. 69 if I added right. He started 145 games in the #3 spot and got a hit in barely half of them. Phantom production at its finest IMO. Sure you can't discount the 41 HRs just like you can't discount the 430 PA that ended in s***. So you would rather Dunn have hit 20 extra singles last year while sacrificing 10 homers, correct? That's the argument you're making. If so, why not just sacrifice all those homers and get 60 extra hits? I mean, really, honestly, I think Alexei Ramirez would make a great DH. Calling it phantom production is a crock of s***. Production, no matter how you come up with it, is PRODUCTION. Dunn is a flawed player, but to suggest he was "bad" last year is like saying Jake Peavy was "bad" last year.