witesoxfan

If anything, I like Tebow and LeBron more now. Hoge is a total moron. I can't stand him and don't know how anybody can.

That is still a god awful strikeout rate.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 05:40 AM) Agreed. Get what you can for everyone in the pen not named Sale/Santos. To imagine anyone would claim Peavy/Rios/Dunn...no way. In fact, I'd say at this point we're better with Peavy for 2012 if we have any possibility of competing, because there's a 75% chance he can finally rebound and give us one very good complete season (and questions are starting to multiple about Humber's viability going forward). It all rests with Buehrle. If there's no way to bring him back, you almost have to start saying goodbye to AJ, Danks, Quentin and really restocking the entire organization If Buehrle wants to come back, then you have to scramble to keep Danks/Quentin for 2012....and cut salary to $110-115. Not easy at all. At this point, unless there's a clear managerial change, you'd have to imagine Buehrle would want to part ways with the Sox. I imagine the White Sox have lost far too much money and have seen far too disastrous of a season to commit anywhere near that amount to the payroll for next year. It'll be closer to $90-95 mill, and they'll still be losing money.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 2, 2011 -> 01:39 PM) It's KW's duty to fire Walker, not Ozzie. No, that is on Ozzie. Ozzie controls his own coaching staff. You think Williams was the one to throw a 10 year reunion for the back to back division winners of the 90s and then run with it for a few years?

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:15 PM) You picked the wrong organization. With Kenny as GM he's already got the system were a rebuild would take a loooooooooong time. I would just like to suggest that rebuilding can be done pretty quickly and relatively on the fly, if done properly. There is enough young or long-term cost controlled talent on the roster that trading a few key guys could result in a pretty quick turnaround. The main problem arises when a certain GM thinks his team is 1 piece away from being a big time contender, trades a ton for that 1 piece, and then turns around within 12 months and trades said piece for cents on the dollar. That's actually happened twice in the last 4 years with this organization, and I actually thought the return on Jackson was fair market value - good pitching prospect, kill salary, get back MLB help that will result in the same draft pick compensation. I understand that you cannot simply translate Gio Gonzalez and Dan Hudson's success to the White Sox exactly as they have done, but if Williams isn't quite so trigger happy and is patient, perhaps making smaller moves instead of swinging for the fences at all turns, they may have had the pieces to acquire Cabrera or had the rotation depth to not have to deal for Jake Peavy (and then the subsequent set of injuries) and then having the young talent within the system to allow you to trade a John Danks or Gavin Floyd to help restock the farm system. The first place the Sox can cut salary at this point is the bullpen, and they can still do that. I imagine Crain and Thornton will pass through waivers and you can probably get 1-2 decent to good prospects for both of them (the Rangers gave up Hunter, Davis, Wieland, and Erland for Uehara and Adams, which is a 25-30 homer corner infielder and 3 mid to back of the rotation types or potential relievers themselves). That may leave Ohman as a possibility to be traded as well, and I imagine they can get a decent prospect back for him too. Then they can try any assortment of lefties from the minors while getting extended looks at Reed, Infante, Nunez, Carter, or whoever else they like. The bullpen is an especially important area, but because of the volatility of relievers, they can be built, torn down, and rebuilt within a year's time and still be relatively effective so long as the manager manages it properly and the team can find the arms to do so. Beyond any of that, the one area that the White Sox have generally excelled beyond the average and perhaps among the best in the majors is with regards to finding and developing bullpen arms into excellent pitchers. It would make sense at this point, then, not to keep those expensive arms but to trade them and begin to develop more arms. These won't happen this week. Probably won't happen at all to be perfectly frank. But, should they fall behind Minnesota, they should begin to make wholesale changes and start shedding some money. If someone claims any of Dunn, Rios, and Peavy, they absolutely need to let them go (they'll clear though). And if someone claims Danks, Quentin, or Floyd, try to work out a trade for some younger players. I believe that the only way Ozzie can save his job is to win this division, but he's too stubborn to make the necessary changes. Thus, I think the only way Williams can save his job (or save a position within the organization) is to cut as many losses as possible. And really, Williams isn't a bad guy to have in the organization. He just shouldn't be running the organization anymore.

QUOTE (Real @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 02:17 AM) When waste is in control, you'll have waste as a result Man. Was I wrong about having a chance at winning the division, the players for the most part look like they have packed it in They technically have a chance at winning the division, and I still think the White Sox can win the division. This team will not.

As a fan of the Chicago White Sox baseball club, I will be completely honest and say that I wasn't upset to see that Mark had been traded, but that was mostly from a financial point of view - he's owed quite a bit of money over the next season and a half. But from everything I have read about him through articles and of him through his Twitter, I am really a little melancholy about him being traded. I always loved Mark and wish that his time in Chicago could have been better and longer, and I do think that he will perform better in a different situation because he did go out and always do everything he could and did what was asked of him, and I imagine he's going to continue to do the same thing in Toronto and wherever his career takes him after that, and you will be there, by his side, to help him along the way the best that you can. The fact that Oney jumped to a conclusion about what he said isn't surprising at all. I don't think many people like Oney and, to try to avoid making any unnecessary insults, this episode apparently shows that he is hypocritical, even if it wasn't Mark's intentions at all. The fact that he airs out others' dirty laundry yet can't take a lick of criticism without throwing around insults like they were batting practice pitches seems to speak enough about his character that anything he says really shouldn't be viewed as anything more than meaningless drivel. You should be proud that you are married to such a genuine, caring individual. I'm sure you are. I wish you and Mark nothing but the best in Toronto. I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 2, 2011 -> 03:04 PM) DKnobler DKnobler by MDGonzales Purcey designated by Tigers. Bad day for struggling LH relievers. They traded their opening day 2B last year for him. That's not to say Scott Sizemore is necessarily a great player, but he's put up a .243/.333/.389/.722 with Oakland with the only real difference between his time in Detroit this year being that he's hit for a bit of power. He seems like an OK player at the very least and one that should be able to develop into a capable starter, especially given that he hit really well in the upper minors. See, Williams isn't the only one who trades solid, young position prospects for s***ty relievers!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 1, 2011 -> 02:57 PM) Adam Dunn? Guys have had bad seasons before. If Adam Dunn comes out (presumably with a new hitting coach and having worked a bit harder in the offseason) and does the same thing next year, then I'd pay attention. I don't think he's done yet. QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Aug 1, 2011 -> 10:49 PM) It amazes me how little people understand Randy Moss. Enlighten us.

It wasn't long ago that players dreaded playing for the White Sox because of clubhouse spies and that certain players really trashed the organization after they left, guys like Durham, Lofton, and Foulke, among others. Then Ozzie came in and players wanted to come here because it was fun. Seems like the cycle continues and players are really uncomfortable in this clubhouse. I sort of expect Ozzie to be fired this week. Maybe upper management will ask Ozzie to try and keep his kid under better control, but at some point, they're going to be forced to take issue with it. It really is bad for the company in general to not only have this man employed by the White Sox but to have him be such a focal point of the organization itself. It is, to some extent, Ozzie's fault that Oney acts this way, but it is not directly his fault. However, at the end of the day, you are judged not only by yourself but also by the company that you keep. This is a family matter, but Ozzie has needed to tell Oney to STFU a few times and has yet to do so and it has once again resulted in a black eye on the organization, even if he did not actually initiate the attacks this time; that's completely beside the point at this juncture.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 2, 2011 -> 01:15 AM) Once again, it proves we have a pennant winning pitching staff. How grown baseball men could sit back and make no additions/changes when two overpaid guys like Dunn and Rios have to play is beyond me. That's 2/9s of the lineup being an automatic out with 3B, 2B and SS also horrible this season. And they make no changes. Alexei has been fine - an average hitter overall and pretty damn good for a shortstop...there's no need to complain about him. Pierre has been a much, much worse hitter than Ramirez this year, and he is really the least of my concerns (simply because there's no way he can be brought back next year).

The last game the White Sox won where they allowed 5 or more runs was May 31st against Boston (a 10-7 victory...they were up 10-1 going into the bottom of the 8th). This team actually looks a lot like the 2005 team, but it's the exact opposite at the same time. The pitching has been phenomenal, the offense has been bad, and the defense has been good. But the team isn't getting the breaks they got that year (and have even gotten unlucky a few times), the payroll is way higher, the manager is acting like a jackass and people are fed up with it, yet no one really seems to care that much as attendance is middle of the pack (and will seemingly drop if they drop out of the race themselves), management hasn't really tried anything to shake the team up, and the players themselves really don't seem to care. For the first time since 2007, I really don't care what happens with the White Sox. Unlike 2007, this Sox team is technically still in the race. I still don't care. I hope they win, but at this point, I'm not going to be upset if they don't.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 1, 2011 -> 11:13 PM) Nice to see Lee hit two homers for Pitt tonight. Some teams actually try to add offense and aren't afraid at offending their current lousy hitter. Yeah, well, the Pirates didn't owe their 1B $36 million, nor their DH (because they don't have a DH) $56 million. They were able to simply let him go. Williams made room on the roster for Alejandro De Aza, who is capable of playing CF and has played well in the minors. He also made it pretty clear that he wanted De Aza playing quite a bit. Maybe Ozzie should get him in the lineup a little more often instead of going back to the same s***ty well in Rios.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Aug 1, 2011 -> 02:32 PM) Then why aren't the Orioles winning right now? This is a fun debate, even if a lot of it is rehashed. The Sox are very much in a stage of limbo right now, and the next 2 months are pretty much going to dictate the next 5 years of the organization. But, to this point, I truly believe that the Orioles are the one organization I can pretty much say without a doubt are worse at developing players than the Sox. Even Nick Markakis, who looked like a surefire star, if not superstar, has become a glorified singles hitter. How? Why? Some organization that knows how to get results out of players is going to pick him up and turn him back into a 25 homer threat, and Baltimore is going to be none the wiser because they are not going to have any idea why it happened. If Texas can find the money, they might be the perfect destination for him. To develop any sort of sustainable success in today's game, you do need to develop from within. That is true of most major sports today (with the NBA being the lone possible exception...even then, there has to be some sort of foundation before you can bring in the superstar talent). You simply cannot build a team through free agency and big time acquisitions - it has to be a slow and steady process, trying to get better and better each and every year in both developing the minor league system, the major league team, and finding a happy medium where the organization can still end in the black at the end of the year. And, along that same line of thought, there has to be enough talent that you can have replacements from within for the major league team but enough value in the minors that you can make a trade if need be.

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Aug 1, 2011 -> 10:59 PM) Rios is a 51 on the suck-o-meter. Out of 10. O/U on the number of HR's he hits the rest of the year: 0.5? Over. He'll run into one at some point. I think Rios is a huge POS, but what I think it really goes to show is that there are so many talented hitters on this team severely underachieving this year. At some point in time, this has less to do with work ethic and the players and some mythical "tip your hat" attitude and the depression of offensive statistics around the league and much more to do with the coaching and preparation of these hitters. I did feel that this was a good offensive club coming into the year, but there were some obvious question marks throughout the lineup. However, there simply should not be this many blackholes throughout the lineup. Ozzie's insistence on playing Rios and Dunn (and I still love Dunn and I still think he'll end up hitting around 120 homers with the Sox) and the refusal to make a coaching change (even if simply to make a change) really goes to show how inept this organization is right now. It's like their going straight towards a cliff, and rather than do something to try and turn it around or veer away from it, they're going straight ahead, down the cliff. I have no doubt they'll stagnate over the next month and a half, hover around .500 the entire time, and by the time they are essentially eliminated (though not mathematically), they'll start playing .700 ball over a 2-3 week period, finishing up with about 84 wins and 3 games out so it'll look close but in all actuality was never close to begin with.

TO simply got hurt. I imagine he's going to do everything in his power to make it back. He's still a productive player (though may not be after this injury). I don't think I've ever seen someone drop off as quickly as Moss did in any sport ever, and that includes baseball before and after steroids.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 1, 2011 -> 02:41 PM) What's up with the wave hate? Seriously, is fun so abhored by everyone? Do I participate? No. Does it offend me that kids get a kick out of it? Absolutely not. The game is not solely for stat nerds who need to see every 73 mph curveball thrown by Mark Buehrle. Kids are very important for the game, and the wave is a free activity that looks very cool to them. Any person here who says they didn't love the wave as a child is dead inside. Christ, the wave is 100x more entertaining than an Alex Rios at-bat. Smelling stinky armpits is more entertaining than watching an Alex Rios at-bat.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 1, 2011 -> 08:42 AM) Really dude, tell me more reasons why Tony Pena is good. I'm anxious to hear them. Neither one of them is very good.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 1, 2011 -> 01:15 AM) GO Pirates! Go Indians! Rooting for both those teams. Diamondbacks as well. They play the game the way it's supposed to be played. And I hope the Braves learn that you have to be willing to "think bigger" at the deadline than what they did. They're a mirror image of the Angels in terms of risk-aversion, especially after the TEX deal to the Rangers burned them. Why in the blue f*** would you cheer for the goddamn Indians?

I think the Pirates had one of the best trade deadlines in the league. They added two bats who can be very good hitters for them but have struggled a bit and didn't appear to really give up all that much to acquire them. I really hope either them or the Brewers win that division. It would be pretty incredible if the Pirates were able to make a deep postseason run.

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?s=...t&p=2324748

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 10:00 AM) I hate Mike Martz. Greg Olsen is a solid weapon, so why trade him? Everything Martz has done or brought to Chicago has failed majorly, so why trust him in not wanting Olsen? Martz has been in Chicago one season and Jay Cutler improved drastically in that one year under Martz. Olsen is going to be a free agent after this season, the Bears have capable backups, Martz's system doesn't incorporate the tight end all that much, and Olsen is good and young enough that a team who does use the tight end more often will be willing to give up something for him. It really makes a lot of sense to deal Olsen.

My initial reaction to the trade was that of relief. It would have been a net win for the Sox to get out of Teahen's contract by simply giving both he and Jackson away. The fact that they get the #4 prospect from Toronto, the owners of a fantastic minor league system, along with a good right handed reliever who will almost certainly qualify as a Type B free agent - the exact same thing as Jackson - and will serve a more distinct purpose in Chicago while allowing the Sox the option to keep him next year (I don't care either way, but with Infante and Reed on their way as well as both Santos and Crain under contract along with the possibility of finding a 3rd/4th right handed reliever for pretty much nothing while also considering payroll considerations going into next year...I hope that they don't pick it up but instead merely offer him arbitration and collect the compensatory pick). I would say that the Sox are putting a lot of stock into the health of the rotation, namely Peavy, but at the same time, Stewart can probably step in and make a few starts and there are a couple other options in AAA so long as it's a very temporary fix. I would also suggest that because the Sox have essentially gone with a 6 man bullpen all year - partly because of the 6 man rotation they used and partly because Santiago was so rarely used - that now is the time to simply DFA Bruney and call up Viciedo (whenever he gets healthy and gets a few games in him at AAA). You go with a bullpen of Santos, Sale, Crain, Thornton, Frasor, and Ohman which leaves you with depth on the bench and the ability to use Viciedo all over diamond (and by all over, I mean LF, RF, 1B, and DH - never, ever 3B). Lillibridge still seems too valuable to give up, even if Rios is relegated to the bench for the time being. Bottomline - it's really nice to see some sort of shakeup within the clubhouse. Get the ball moving and maybe they take off. Hopefully they do.

QUOTE (OilCan @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 09:36 PM) I wouldn't be surprised if Milledge was called up before Viciedo. Would not be surprised at all. I would. He has to clear waivers again if they want to send him down, so if they call him up, it's because they want him on the roster full time. I think they'll try and resign him and use him on the roster next year, but I don't think there is any room for him this year.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 06:27 PM) I'm callin' BS here. It's so "Anti-Kenny". Personally I hope he does...but it seems to me it's more of a threat of taking away your kids toys. There's no point in doing so this late in the season when the team is actually in the race. This would be worse than the White Flag because of all the money they committed to this roster. They may as well play it out.