witesoxfan

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 11:32 PM) regardless of everyones opinion on him here, it takes one helluva player to reach 600 so , also Sosa always seemed to love the rivalry with the whitesox and had fun with the fans too, he was one of the few players that actually cared about the crosstown rivalry. I agree; in today's game, who cheated and who didn't? Can anyone prove whether Carlos Beltran or Frank Thomas were completely clean throughout the course of their careers? Mo Vaughn? Vlad Guerrero? It's a hell of an achievement, regardless of roids or not. Every player is tainted in my mind, so I'll congratulate the best of the tainted.

QUOTE(Shadows @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 01:17 AM) Im pretty sure I made it clear my feelings, you're post was pointless.. And you should be kidding me when the person who started this has Egbert listed as a person who could come in and pitch if Buehrle was dealt.. so yeah, rethink it K, pointless or not, you saying that Egbert sucks because you think so is pretty pointless too. The guy has pretty solid peripherals and just flat out does not give up homers. Based on numbers, stuff, and comparable pitchers, it's pretty likely he'll be in the majors and that he'll be a solid pitcher. He'll never be a world beater, but he'll be solid. And why not? I wouldn't guarantee anything, but I would figure that if Egbert came up now, he'd put up an ERA in the 5.00-5.50 range. The problem with bringing him up now is that the Sox may be able to get better production from a guy like Gavin Floyd whose ceiling is also higher; Egbert's ceiling is really not that high. I don't think the White Sox are particularly high on either Haeger or Phillips, Vladimir Nunez is a filler, and Broadway has been working on a 2-seamer all year. I imagine that if Floyd were to get hurt, someone like Egbert could very easily come up rather than any of the other 4.

QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 11:58 PM) I started off a game of bowling today with 5 straight strikes what'd you end up with? I was going to say 5 is easy, but that would be mean.

QUOTE(whitesox61382 @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 08:18 PM) I can understand Minaya(and others) reluctance to trade top prospects for rental players because 4-5 years ago I held a similar opinion. However, with time I came to realize a few things that made me reconsider my standpoint on this issue. 1) Track record of prospects traded at the trade deadline - Every year ESPN puts an article on their website around the trade deadline reviewing previous deadline deals involving mostly rental players for prospects, and the conclusion is that that majority of the prospects never develop into solid everyday major leaguers. Prospects are simple unproven potential. They can put up big numbers in the minors or have all the tools in the world, but at the end of the day all that matters is major league production which is no guarantee. Everyone is so afraid of giving up the next superstar that they ignore the fact that the overwhelming majority of prospects never develop into solid major leaguers or live up to their potential. 2) Winning it all is all that matters in the end - Everyone becomes so worried about the future and potentially mortgaging the future by trading away top prospects that they forget about the present. In the end, all that matters is who is hoisting that trophy at the end of the year. That’s all the majority of fans care about. If adding a difference maker at the deadline is the missing piece to a championship run, than it is certainly worth giving up 2-3 players whose futures are uncertain at best. Trust me, winning that championship in 2005 was worth every prospect ever traded away the previous decade. Even if it means living with a mediocre team right now. 3) Get future return from the rental player - Not only do you get that players production for the stretch run/playoffs, but you get the right to negotiate with them before they become a FA. If the Mets had intentions of keeping Buehrle after this season, than they get the upper hand by being able to negotiate with him first. The Sox used this to their advantage with Garcia after they traded for him. Worst case scenario is that the Mets would offer him arbitration and get two compensative picks from the team that does end up signing him. Two top 50 picks certainly softens the blow of trading a couple of top prospects. In the end, teams almost always get more than just a rental player for three months. These 3 concepts have changed my opinion of trading top prospects for rental players, and I am sure that there are a handful of GMs who hold similar opinions and will be more than willing to deal a couple of top prospects for a difference maker like Buehrle. well done sir. In fact, I can tie in a White Sox reference - in fact, the same White Sox reference - to every one of your scenarios. 1. Freddy Garcia for Miguel Olivo, Jeremy Reed, and Mike Morse. Olivo was out of Seattle within a year, Morse tore up the majors his first go around, but has since been busted for roids for the 2nd time, and Jeremy Reed has been pitiful with the bat. 2. 2005, duh, you mentioned it yourself. 3. The Sox not only kept Garcia, but then got Gio - who is a very talented prospect - along with a former top 5 pick in the draft. They have turned 3 mediocre players into 2 potential starting pitchers in the future.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 12:12 AM) The only way I wouldn't pick him up, is if Kenny has in fact written the team off and is going to deal off the vets (in which case I wouldn't want Bradley around the younger players, considering he'd walk at the end of the year anyway). I pick him up anyways; trade the C type prospect for him, hope and pray he can do something within the next month and stay healthy, and then try and deal him off for a B prospect at the end of the month.

QUOTE(Shadows @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 10:44 PM) I have my doubts about Gio as well.. Until any of these guys come to the major league level and produce I am not going to annoint them our future 2-3-4 starters.. I just don't agree at all with people already saying Egbert is in contention to come in if Buehrle is traded and be a solid end of the rotation starter, are you kidding me? You can easily say that about any given minor league player in the history of time. The fact of the matter is through scouting and numbers, you can reasonably determine what a pitcher will likely do upon reaching the majors. That doesn't mean they will; there are busts all the time. And you can agree or disagree as to whether Egbert will be in contention, but it's likely he'll either be up or be traded within the next year and a half and be given a shot at starting for the White Sox. Whether he produces or not is a completely different story, but he'll be given a shot. And no, we are not kidding you. You don't have to get excited; a pitcher that is projected to be a back end of the rotation starter is really not much to get excited about.

QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 01:22 PM) The only way the Sox can turn it around is if they trade for Jack Parkman. His little schimmy makes the women here in Cleveland crazy. (he's still a dick)

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 01:00 PM) Wrong. Every country, especially the US, had players sissy out and worry about injuries and not play. It was a bad idea and it was not good for baseball. And that was before America got their s*** handed to them. A game that is supposedly America's past time, and here we are losing in the first round. What's that say about us? I imagine there will be a much better turn out next time around.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2007 @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 01:51 AM) Wite, please spare me sabermetrics and all that garbage. Juan is f***in' lazy. This goes all the way back to last year. There's no way around that fact. He doesn't even use his body when he throws. What happened yesterday was pathetic, and he should be benched for the next week. And since when does taking strike 3 mean you're not trying? He would be trying if he swung and missed? Jim Thome takes a lot of strike 3 calls. Is he not trying? When a player takes a strike 3 he's obviously either not seeing the ball or he's getting fooled. And I could care less about which position is harder. That wasn't the point. I'll call out ANYBODY that I feel is giving a half-assed effort. And that's what Juan has been doing since last year. I didn't give you sabermetrics; I'm not sure they technically exist in fielding. Before Crede went down, he and Uribe had some of the best range in the hole of any combo in the majors. Perhaps he may be a bit weaker going up the middle, but he's overall a good defensive shortstop. He's not Ozzie Smith, but he's not a turd. All I was suggesting by saying "metrics" was that you can look at any type of fielding measurement other than fielding percentage and errors and determine that Juan Uribe is a pretty damn good defensive shortstop. Jim Thome strikes out a ton; he doesn't strike out looking nearly as often as Podsednik did, and their jobs are entirely different. Pods job is to score runs, Jim's is to drive in runs. If Jim ledoff, I guarantee he would shorten his swing a ton and would try and just put bat on ball; because that's not his job, he tries to kill the ball every time he swings the bat, and thus misses a lot. He also has the outstanding ability to draw a walk too, partly because of his power. And yes, swinging and missing strike 3 is trying, because atleast there's a chance in hell that you can continue your AB. If the ball is right down the middle, and you don't swing, what chance do you have of seeing another pitch? And if a player is getting fooled that often, blame is placed squarely upon the player, the coaches, and the front office; the front office for allowing such a s***ty player to be anywhere near the roster, the coaches for having such a s***ty player leading off, and the player for not being prepared for what the pitcher is going to be coming at him with. That was Pods quite a bit last year, and those are the 3 groups that deserve entire blame in the situation. Finally, you can call out any player you please; all I was saying was that the reason Juan receives your so-called "free pass" is because the 2nd best shortstop in the White Sox organization is that of little range, no arm, no bat Alex Cintron. Would you rather have Cintron play SS?

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2007 @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 01:11 AM) I actually think Uribe gets a free pass around here. "Atleast Juan gives you defense." Juan hasn't been a good defensive player for about a year now. He's lackadasical (I think I spelled that wrong) and lazy as hell. Soxtalk loves to bash Podsednik, but atleast he always gives his all when he's playing. Can't say the same for Uribe. I'm sure most metrics will still show that he is one of the better defensive shortstops in the AL. That means nothing when he's hitting .200. Beyond that, saying that Podsednik gave his all when he was playing is flat out lying. The guy took more strike 3 calls than like anyone in the history of the world and didn't bust ass down the line as a leadoff hitter. And, unlike with Uribe, there are replacements within the organization and around baseball that can be acquired rather cheaply for left field. I'd just as soon call up the Mets and see if we could acquire Fernando Tatis and stick him in LF. For shortstop, it's a bit harder. Add to it that shortstop is probably the most important position defensively, and you have your reason as to why Uribe gets a "free pass" as you call it. From everything I've ever seen from this board, however, Uribe does not get that free pass because he is simply good defensively, but it has much more to do with the replacement situation.

Wily Mo definitely doesn't have a good natural eye, but his ceiling is incredibly high. If he can turn into a .310/.3whatever/.550 type player, teams are going to have to pitch around him. At that point, it's a matter of learning to become a more patient hitter or failing and sucking miserably.

QUOTE(JackTalkThai @ Jun 20, 2007 -> 10:06 AM) The Tigers are straight up mashing the ball this month. A few stats for illustrative purposes... Magglio is hitting .483 in June. The Tigers have SEVEN players hitting over .330 in June. The Tigers AS A TEAM is hitting .333 in June. Wow. I hate you I hate you I hate you I hate you and I hate because I envy.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 03:33 PM) Signability is an issue with all draft picks but you can gamble more with the picks as well as pick up a pick in the next draft if a guy does not sign. How'd Jon Adkins work out as well as the Jon Berry? Would the Mets give up Wright for Buerhle, probably not but that is where KW should start. Prospects can fizzle out. Proven starters are worth a-lot more especially one's that are signed for five years and are 28 years old. The abiltiy to sign Buerhle increases his value greatly. How did Hanley Ramirez and Dontrelle Willis work out for Florida? Or Travis Hafner, Grady Sizemore, and Cliff Lee work out for Cleveland? You're not going to get a superstar 3Bman for a starting pitcher whose contract is about to run out, and that is the end of any of that type of discussion. Add to it that draft picks are almost always atleast 3 years away from making it to the majors, and sometimes 5 years. Prospects acquired via trade are almost always less then a year away from making an impact, though sometimes are around 2 or perhaps even 3 years away from making the big league team. You take draft picks only as a last resort, and you take the best package you can get from the teams bidding for him; that package will not include David Wright, and it would be ridiculous to even "start" a conversation with a player locked up until 2012 (and perhaps 2013 if his option is picked up) with one who does not have any type of contract beyond this season.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 20, 2007 -> 12:36 AM) Uggla's line against lefties coming into today: .283/.352/.583/.935 Cabrera's line against lefties coming into today: .411/.492/.911/1.403 I guess Matt's just lucky that Miggy didn't put one on the Fundamentals deck on the first pitch he saw. I was close to calling it a Barry Bonds line. I'm glad I caught myself. Bonds against RHP in 2004 put up a 1.609 OPS. That's like 2 #3 hitters put together.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 11:33 PM) Can anyone guess who this is? Don't cheat.. Just hope that a high draft pick can rediscover his talent, even if it means going all the way back to A ball. lolz, I once brought up this comparison and was completely mocked. Not sure why, seeing as how they feature similar builds, stuff, and progressions. Maybe it's because everyone thought I was presenting him out to be the next Halladay, which is a bold statement to be sure. The key to either of them has been getting groundballs; once Halladay got his GO/AO from 1.30 to 2+, he turned into an ace. Floyd's has been around or just under 1 during his career in the majors, and it seems he becomes dominant when he is getting groundballs at a good rate. It could, quite honestly, very easily happen. whoring myself

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 02:45 PM) Remember when the Sox signed Erstad and you brought up Pena's name in the "Erstad Signs" thread as a possible backup 1B for the Sox? You're like some sort of baseball genius. I do; and then the Sox could have used him in LF and 1B when Thome goes down, even as disasterous as that would have been, it would have been so worth it.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 06:19 PM) Was it you that told me when I was talking doomsday awhile back about our offense being bad and Konerko, especially -- someone said to me, "He won't [have another year like 2003]" and I said, "He's having it and there's precedent" and I think it was you that said Konerko wouldn't have such a bad year. Was it? I don't think Buehrle will have a bad year this year. ahh, but let's be fair to Paulie. In the first half in the past 3 odd years... 2003 - .197/.267/.300/.568 2005 - .249/.349/.479/.828 2007 - .238/.333/.416/.749 It's slowly and steadily improving. I think Paulie will still end up around .280/.360/.540/.900, but what he does in the second half won't change where the Sox are in the first half.

so like, holy s***, Ozzie

QUOTE(spiderman @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 10:35 PM) The guy who they need to move is Contreras. He's done, but maybe there's a team like the Mets desperate enough for starting pitching to make a move. If he wants it, it could happen. Every and any potential scenario where Contreras is traded depends upon his approval, due to his NTC.

I'd give Mark the Frank treatment and cheer for him every game he pitched no matter what uniform he was wearing unless it was against the Sox. Mark is always going to be a favorite of mine. QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 07:42 PM) Garland should be offered an extension this off-season and this squad should be building the rotation around both him and Buehrle (plus I'd like to keep Vazquez, although I'd settle for the club picking up another veteran pitcher with two youngsters part of the back end of the rotation). This would actually be my dream scenario, but when you consider that the rotation will be making almost half of the team's payroll - I figure around $40 mill of a $90 mill payroll - I'm not sure how entirely possible it is. If you could pull something like that off, and then be able to actually build an offense on cheap(er) FA pickups and within the system, it would be ideal and the Sox would actually be able to put out a team that could potentially compete for a division.

How is your all around game coming around? -stuff -control -stamina What is your mindset going into every start? If you could compare your all-around game to a pitcher in the majors right now - with no need to be modest - who would that be and why?

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 02:40 PM) Do you think the Cardinals would be willing to move Pujols in a deal for Buehrle if the Sox included a replacement for Albert in the deal like say Rogowski? replace Rogowski with Timo and you have a deal

A guy seemingly getting no attention at all this year is Carlos Pena. He's having an absolutely fantastic year, perhaps one that may turn him into one of the next great sluggers in the league. .314/.404/.669/1.073 with 16 homers and 29 XBHs. Kind of funny, because the last organization he was with - the Red Sox - were the ones to turn Papi into what he is today. I wonder if it's at all possible that they hold the secret to turning slow, powerful, left-handed bats into sluggers.

QUOTE(southsida86 @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 11:19 PM) The fact that he's going to be on our team for the next two years, with Jamie Moyer stuff, making over $10 million is what is bad. He'll be DFA before the end of next year. There's no way we'll find a taker for him unless he magically gets his fastball back to the 93-94 that you were talking about, and the rest of his stuff goes back to where it was last year too. KW did trade Garcia, and there is always a GM out there willing to take a chance. You are not going to be getting a top 5 or 10 prospect in return, but you'll get a decent enough return.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 08:33 PM) There's a reason the Phillies thought they'd completely ripped us off with the Garcia deal and it isn't because they thought Gio was a load of crap (although I'm not sure they exactly coveted him after his year). Organizations can sour on players quite quickly. Going into the 2006 season, Brian Anderson was all but guaranteed to be the CFer for the White Sox for the next 6 years. Halfway through 2007, he's probably played his final game in a White Sox uniform. 2 years of sucking will do that easily. No GM picked him up because no GM coveted him as highly as Kenny Williams did. Do you think GMs were offering World Series veteran starting pitchers for a top 5 prospect along with Gavin as a huge part of the deal? I really doubt that other GMs weren't talking to Gillick about Floyd, but they were more looking to give up players like Mike MacDougal and David Aardsma for him; you think he's going to take Freddy Garcia and give up Gio or is he going to take David Aardsma?