caulfield12

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Aug 29, 2016 -> 03:19 PM) The 2nd part of your bolded comment is comically inaccurate. Yeah, I guess we should celebrate Mylan and the $600 Epipen not being the sponsors. Although, if the amount they ponied up was double what Guaranteed Rate was forking out, I'm sure we would be attempting to rationalize that as well... Plus, there's a general rule from sports that anyone with a III after their name grew up around a country club, lol. Finally, there's another rule that anytime you say someone SEEMS like a good guy, the story invariably has a way of turning out like Tiger Woods or Anthony Weiner.

You can't force someone in corporate America to be likeable or more palatable. It feels like spin in an election year. Maybe I've been watching too much Mr. Robot this year, but it takes a lot of convincing that someone cares about anything but profitability and isn't just paying lip service when terms like corporate social responsibility and enlightened self-interest come into play. You can look at it like he's doing this great thing for the White Sox, if you so choose, but you can also see that he took advantage of the lowest possible rate he could get for naming rights when all of the media attention and sponsorship dollars were flowing to the other side of town. Eventually, that almost has to shift to his favor when you take advantage of a "buy low" opportunity. After all, that's how the rich get richer. Taking advantage of market conditions to extract the highest possible value out of a deal. It's the American way, after all. And, whenever he trots out there to throw out a ceremonial first pitch, I hope he at least gets it halfway to the plate.

http://www.southsidesox.com/2016/8/27/1267...atcher-decision

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 03:57 PM) Sure - the 2 best relief pitches in baseball brought that return. People seem to think that's what Burdi will be. Highly unlikely. Draft someone and he develops into one of the top starters or hitters in baseball and he will bring 3 x the return those 2 did. What will Robertson bring? What did Addison Reed net out? Those are more realistic and probable goals for Burdi. And in the end, a player drafted where Burdi was drafted should be a top 100 prospect in short order...which is basically what the return on Reed was. Don't forget Santos. In hindsight, the price for Giles to the Astros was nutty, but you had a playoff team with lots of minor league talent and a weakness on the big league roster. Kimbrel to the Red Sox, a lot of that had to do with DD's aggressiveness/farm system depth and a glaring need again. To say you can consistently count on that happening, not so sure that there won't be another course correction with more focus on drafting advanced collegiate relievers in rounds 2-5. The Oakland A's were the ones who started the idea of selling high on closers in years 2-4 of their six years before everyone else caught on and started copying them. Now teams are simply copying teams like KC or the Twins in the 2000's because it turned out to be a unique winning formula for constructing a team more cost effectively without overpaying for free agent starting pitching (or building around defense). Of course, that has now driven up the salaries for those 7th and 8th inning set up guys.

Don't forget DJ LeMahieu as well...with Bryant, Rizzo and Russell, that's four Top 40 guys in terms of WAR.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 01:19 PM) Blown saves and save percentage for a set up guy is probably the most ridiculous stat to ever look at and come to a conclusion. The fact is Jones does not get lit up a lot like you claimed. He apparently is pretty deceptive since major league hitters strike out a lot vs. his offerings, and they don't square much up. Wrong again Caulfield. Try another sport. You don't understand anything about this one. I'll make sure to save this because Nate Jones won't last one full season as a closer with the White Sox. It really doesn't make sense to have three closers (in your idea) in Robertson, Jones and Burdi on a sub .500 team and not trade at least one of them for a position player or payroll relief or both.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 10:17 AM) 10 k/9 innings 0.94 WHIP, 42 hits allowed in 58 2/3 innings. Yeah, Nate Jones gets lit up a lot, and it is all due to that hitch in his motion, he just isn't deceptive enough. .197/.251/.319 splits against Nate Jones. Yes a .570 OPS. One pitcher in the AL has face as many hitters as Jones and has a lower BAA. One. He sucks. LOL To save time, I will post Caulfields response OK, fine. Make him the closer. He will probably go 60 for 60 in save opportunities because he is so great. Robin Ventura, Gordon Beckham, Ubaldo Jimenez... Statistically, Jones Burdi and Jennings are the three best relievers (assuming Robertson's gone). I'm sure SoxTalkers are champing at the bit for Nate Jones to be made closer. How many blown saves does he have? You seem to have left that somewhat important piece out. Well, it probably doesn't matter much because the White Sox have won almost all of his blown saves. Oops, that's Robertson. They've really been terrible in all the games Jones and Albers have blown. Might want to rethink that position. Next thing you'll be arguing that Jennings is the best left handed reliever in baseball despite all evidence to the contrary.

At this point, far better that they just shut up and get to work. Actions speak louder than words. Let Merkin or Boyer throw out the embarrassing quotes while KW is hanging out at the bar.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 09:46 AM) I am not so sure that a relief pitcher shouldn't be taken as a 1st round pick anymore, just because of what some GM's are giving up for them. It's insane what the elite relievers command in trade value. Trade a couple high end relievers like the Yanks did and wham you can rebuild your farm. All for guys who play maybe less than 5 % of the total innings played ? The Yankees are very smart for trading Chapman and Miller. Yes, because they still have Betances there. Bullpen depth is tricky. The Royals lost Davis, Hochevar and their entire pen seemed to cave in last month. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/pro...=matthew-strahm Then a 2012 21st round pick shows up out of nowhere and they go on a crazy consecutive innings scoreless run. It's all about scouting. Pretty crazy the Royals and Yankees could be just 2 and 2.5 GB in the WC race after today with both teams losing two of their four best relievers in the span of a month. And yet, as good as that reliever has been, KC has every intention of pushing Strahm into the starting rotation next year despite his success as a reliever in 2016. Conversely, every single reliever the White Sox have used to hold down that 7th inning RH relief role after Petricka, Putnam and Albers has blown up in their faces....

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 11:01 AM) Well now I am really confused because I trusted the WAR stats Chitown used but now looked it up myself and Fangraphs has Frazier at a 1.2 WAR and Baseball Ref has him at 2.2 WAR. 2015 Frazier 4.5, 2014 4.8, 2013 3.1, 2012 2.6 all per Fangraphs. Baseball Reference is more generous with WAR and just by a casual glance it appears to be wide differences in defensive WAR where Abreu is hurt very badly by the Fangraphs d WAR but not so much by the Baseball Ref. . I think I prefer Baseball Ref. just because defensive evaluations seem to matter way too much on Fangraphs. Of course they calculate WAR differently in other areas too so it's possible I am making a generalization about things I'm ignorant on. I don't think anyone here expected the worst WAR in Fraziers last 5 years. I often have pointed out how the Sox keep acquiring NL players whose stats drop once they get to the AL and I have said they need to start acquiring more AL players and have often been called out on it. But the facts speak for themselves at least for the Sox. And no one bring up Eaton because he didn't have a history of stats of the NL. Until there is some standardized way for calculate WAR I will remain skeptical of it's use. Otoh, the two best offensive seasons from players we've acquired via trade the last decade or so have come from former Az DBacks in Quentin and Eaton. So we should only acquire players from that team, and avoid former "Adams" from WSH. I think it's pretty safe to say that the majority of the board expected a less than stellar season from Frazier because of his second half, coming from NL, age, and the fact that every big move made in recent years has just not worked out as well as expected. Even the second best KW/Hahn move in Abreu...a trade of Jose might not be able to bring back Yasiel Puig. I'll go ahead and assume Friedman would do it today, but probably not a month ago.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 11:01 AM) Well now I am really confused because I trusted the WAR stats Chitown used but now looked it up myself and Fangraphs has Frazier at a 1.2 WAR and Baseball Ref has him at 2.2 WAR. 2015 Frazier 4.5, 2014 4.8, 2013 3.1, 2012 2.6 all per Fangraphs. Baseball Reference is more generous with WAR and just by a casual glance it appears to be wide differences in defensive WAR where Abreu is hurt very badly by the Fangraphs d WAR but not so much by the Baseball Ref. . I think I prefer Baseball Ref. just because defensive evaluations seem to matter way too much on Fangraphs. Of course they calculate WAR differently in other areas too so it's possible I am making a generalization about things I'm ignorant on. I don't think anyone here expected the worst WAR in Fraziers last 5 years. I often have pointed out how the Sox keep acquiring NL players whose stats drop once they get to the AL and I have said they need to start acquiring more AL players and have often been called out on it. But the facts speak for themselves at least for the Sox. And no one bring up Eaton because he didn't have a history of stats of the NL. Until there is some standardized way for calculate WAR I will remain skeptical of it's use. Otoh, the two best offensive seasons from players we've acquired via trade the last decade or so have come from former Az DBacks in Quentin and Eaton. So we should only acquire players from that team, and avoid former "Adams" from WSH. I think it's pretty safe to say that the majority of the board expected a less than stellar season from Frazier because of his second half, coming from NL, age, and the fact that every big move made in recent years has just not worked out as well as expected. Even the second best KW/Hahn move in Abreu...a trade of Jose might not be able to bring back Yasiel Puig. I'll go ahead and assume Friedman would do it today, but probably not a month ago.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 06:39 AM) You can throw 93-95 while being bad too? Either way, he's having great success this year whether he throws 86-89 or 93-95. Hahn at least got a guy with minor upside for the worst player in baseball. With how many pitchers are throwing 95+ right now, 92-94 is almost more dangerous than in the upper 80's used to be because there are so many good arms now... As far as that velocity goes, just depends on movement and location. Matt Thornton fell from 96-98 into the mid to low 90s and that was the death of him. Well, that and the bomb Thome hit off him second half 2010...along with the All-Star game that year. We've all seen Nate Jones get lit up a lot in that same 96-98 range...due to that hitch in his motion and how he makes it easier to identify pitch type than others who are much more deceptive.

If you had to choose between Coats, Avi, Colby Rasmus and Puig, most rational fans would know that Puig can certainly bust but has a lot of potential upside left, too.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 12:45 AM) Jesus what a thread. It would be nice to win and be relevant just to avoid threads like this. But yea margulas is basically ss2k15 born 15 years later imo. He can critique but mostly it's just pro org bulletin points and the comments section, led by pnoles, is mostly an echo chamber. At least here there is less groupthink. He's actually been pretty critical and sarcastic this year...he's definitely not Davey Crockett or Sam Bowie.

The Blue Jays are going to give up someone who has been crazy good for Navarro? Call me skeptical. I'm sure we could unearth equally glowing Nestor Molina, Zach Stewart and Chris Marquez praise.

As long as he doesn't have a knife. I could actually see him going around the ballpark and turning the guaranteed rate arrows in the up direction if he were to give up 8-9 runs in 2+ innings sometime next April.

Seattle, Houston, KC and the Yankees miraculously all in it... And Baltimore without Tillman now. Seems it will come down to that usual 88-89 win total. For KC and Houston, that would mean 21/22 and 13/12 loss finishes. The only teams that would have better final stretches would be the 2013 LAD and 2015 Blue Jays. 7-19 in July followed by 18-6 so far in August.

We'll first be forced to watch Nate Jones struggle at closer for a couple of months after Robertson is traded in the offseason...then Burdi will get the job when there is less pressure.

Well, think we now have a pretty good idea why the Red Sox weren't willing to trade Mookie Betts... At any rate, this game was pretty much must-win with Seattle struggling to hold so many leads the past week.

The next Wunsch/Wasserman/Bradford type. I think Takatsu at his age might still be more effective.

Shouldn't it be mierda?

They should sign Beltran (the 9th inning field charger) to a contract...at least he has good baserunning instincts.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 11:51 AM) The rnc abandoned dole in 96 to focus on congressional races, but that was because everyone knew it was a quixotic campaign and not because dole was a horrible person they couldn't be tied to. They still supported and endorsed him, it was more of a funding shift. I think you need to go back to goldwater to find a similar example of am anti establishment fringe wing winning the nomination and getting rejected by at least some of the party leadership openly in the general election. The parties had more ideological overlap/mixing at the time, though, so I don't know if it was as stark and jarring. The Democrats had gone through the dixiecrat stuff a little before that for example. Re: religion the reason that there are so many regional protestant denominations in America is historically due to ideological splits over slavery. McGovern for the Dems as well in 1972....that and the 1964 election really stand out.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 04:44 PM) It's just weird to me seeing Saladino higher than Abreu. What does that even mean ? Abreu couldn't possibly be costing the Sox more with his glove than he contributes with his bat. Even Coats in his very limited playing time gets a .2 > I know 1st base isn't a position that can generate a lot of defensive WAR but even in a down hitting year which is improving rapidly Abreu still generates more run production than Eaton though he may not be more valuable to the team. I think b/f WAR overvalues walks and defense I am a huge believer that the Sox need more OBP guys and was a huge proponent of getting better defensive players but when Avila gets a .7 and Abreu just a .4 something is amiss somewhere. A guy like Heyward gets a huge contract and one bad offensive year makes it look like a joke he ever got that kind of contract. Heyward hasn't even had a really good season from a power-hitting perspective since the beginning of his Braves' career. Before all those advanced stats became popular, wonder what kind of FA deal he would have received....let's sat 20 year ago? About 50% less? Age was the main factor benefitting him, and the defensive metrics. This type of chart almost makes trading Eaton at peak value and blowing everything up seem even more logical. Eaton, Sale and Q are never going to be worth more.

What possible indicator do we have...objectively...that Hahn/Williams would be able to make this team a contender with another $25 million per season to spend? It seems logical enough, but there's not much evidence to support it. The best White Sox team in the last 15 years ago had one of, if not the smallest payrolls of any of those teams. If White Sox fans were Cubs-like sheeple attending games oblivious to the dismal results, there would be even less likelihood of changes being made. Look what that pressure did this year in April and early May. Forced Danks off the roster, Rollins out and Anderson up, Latos...of course, it resulted in one of the worst moves of the season in the James Shields acquisition. None of that would have happened had the Sox started their more typical in recent years 10-23 than the opposite. And even if we had extra money this past offseason, it would have ended up in the pockets of Alex Gordon and not Cespedes or Upton, so we wouldn't be any better off...the situation would objectively be worse because Hahn and KW would keep losing even bigger money bets. The attendance actually lowers their ability to make dumb decisions. And they've shown little sign of wanting to invest more than they are allocated to international free agents under 21...Cuban, Korean, Japanese players, minor league instruction and development, scouting, etc. those are the best ways to improve the final product on the field, not just changing a couple of faces in Paddy and Hostetler.