caulfield12

Let's be honest. The real problem is that we've been so conditioned to reading packages ever since July where 4-7 players come back for Sale that there's the psychological reflex to think we're getting the short end of the bargain. Especially those examples from the Red Sox, Dodgers and Astros. So if we're "only" getting three players and the 3rd isn't one that everyone had their hearts set on (another "untouchable" as the 3rd piece), then a lot of people will get very upset because many were expecting Moncada or Benintendi/Devers/Kopech or Groome or Bellinger/Alvarez/Verdugo/Calhoun+ (Puig), etc. You can have a huge number of players acquired, like White Flag, and only Foulke and Howry had much of an impact after Caruso's initially fairly promising rookie year. You can be the typical Cubs' fan and think that including 5-7 prospects rated 8-24 in your system is someone magically a formula to acquire nearly any player on the planet.

Let's equate Robles to Sammy Sosa, and Giolito to Wilson Alvarez, just for argument's sake. How much more is Sale worth now than Harold Baines (a DH) was back in the late 1980's? In the end, the only thing that matters is that both players make it and are All-Star contributors or just below. Both would really have to make it, if the 3rd/4th pieces aren't significant or high risk/bust rate types. And you'd have to be 100% confident Giolito's TJS will hold up with his mechanics/delivery (calling PTAC analysis) going forward. You can make an argument that Giolito could put up a higher WAR in 6-7 years than Sale in 3, but that's not going to be worth very much in terms of improving the future of the White Sox franchise if Robles is a bust or ends up more like Buxton (so far) or Cameron Maybin (2-3 WAR) than, let's say, Adam Eaton. That said, the potential of a game-changing outfield talent with 4+ tools is extremely exciting (granted, you can argue Eaton's close already)...but the bust rate on those guys is particularly high, if you were to go through the last 20-30 of BA Top 100's and look at all the "five tool" players (especially outfielders) and assess how many of them actually put it all together as players and realized their immense potential.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 10:54 PM) Every year I'm shocked at fans pretending they know the value of a player more than the people that actually male a living doing it. For a trade like this, if you're not getting a Turner, you'd hope to be getting three guys who can really make an impact...for example, Colon for Cliff Lee, Sizemore and Brandon Phillips. Obviously, Sizemore's career was cut short by injuries and Phillips only really succeeded after leaving the Indians, but that's what we need. At this point, Escobar and Cain for Greinke feels more like the return (partially because of the risk/uncertainty associated with TJS). In the end, it was a net positive, but you have to get at least TWO contributors at 3-4 WAR and above for it to really make sense for the Sox. And Greinke was MUCH closer to free agency/more expensive in terms of his contract at that point.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 10:49 PM) Stop bringing up the Sox's history with developing position players if you're not going to acknowledge the fact that they have a new Scouting Director and an almost entirely new player development department. Other than Chris Getz, what has changed...other than recycling coaches to different positions within the organizational hierarchy? Based on his lack of experience compared to others in similar positions, it's hard to feel extremely confident...unless it's based on, well, it can't be any WORSE than it has been the last decade, right? Or can it? How much say, if any, does Hostetler have on that side of things? We really just don't know enough...so, in that case, it's hard not to feel past/recent history isn't at least one legitimate concern based on track record or lack thereof (in the case of Getz).

Lopez and Glover are off the table, supposedly. Fedde? Would we really take two TJS guys...Hahn is Mr. Risk-Averse, typically. Severino? Michael Taylor? All things considered, there's a lot of risk associated with both Robles and Giolito (not to mention the White Sox not developing Latin American players internally since Carlos Lee and Ordonez almost two decades ago)...it feels like a 75% chance they regret it, of course, nobody has a crystal ball to predict the future.

Who are the lower level piece/s or possibilities again? ESPN's reporting two of them are supposedly not involved (along with Turner, obviously).

Where's the KW book on how he was behind the Eaton, Tim Anderson and Abreu moves?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:59 AM) For his next trick, Trump will be selecting Tea Leoni as SoS because she is in a show called Madam Secretary. Love putting Carson into a position where he himself says he isnt ready for. wheeeeeeeeeeeee lets go this is fun He won't even admit whether he stayed in Section 8/public housing or not. Should be one of the more entertaining confirmation hearings...especially if we get into aliens, grain storage, the pyramids and his 1% buddy through whom a lot of the family money is invested (mostly real estate) being shielded from Federal health care fraud proceedings. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-adviso...-112250866.html Trump advisors aim to privatize oil/natural gas rich Native American reservations. Why do I see the next Michael Moore doc coming out of this?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 08:23 AM) Trump’s Taiwan phone call was long planned, say people who were involved Apparently, the Heritage Foundation was heavily allowed, along with one of Dick Cheney's former national security advisors in Stephen Yates (currently vying for administration position.)

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 4, 2016 -> 09:29 PM) That seems to be the size of it. They keep their jobs with mediocre seasons, why threaten them with a risky rebuild unless it involves "sure things". Aggravating considering Hahn and co are a lot better at evaluating minor league talent than major league talent. Based on Tim Anderson and Adam Eaton and this year's draft class?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 4, 2016 -> 11:13 PM) Lot of talk about Puig. Why do we want to trade Abreu so bad and deal FOR Puig? I thought we only wanted minor league prospects in rebuilding. Puig is 25 and a big leaguer. Abreu is only 29. Why not keep them both? Selling tickets. Potential rebound to be flipped for younger assets at the deadline or offseason next year.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/beijing-faces-de...-050920301.html Trump wants what exactly? War? Trade war? This is just idiotic. The Chinese government is spending billions of RMB to keep the currency from devaluing further. Who wins when the money flees the country for higher rates of return in NYC, LA, SF and Vancouver? Real estate developers in prime markets. When you impose tariffs, your consumers lose with higher prices. If we do the same to China, American consumers will pay 30-50% more for every product they buy, starting with their beloved Apple products. Are we going to intervene to save every US job? That will not only raise costs to consumers over time, it will also lead to less tax revenues for the government or lower school district budgets due to TIF. That's the opposite of GOP free trade policies, as noted for preeminent economist and scholar Sarah Palin. We can complain about dumping steel, coal, cement, rare earths materials on the rest of the world...but the US government never subsidized those inefficient industries, causing jobs to flee to Asia the last thirty years. Another legit concern is copyright law...best to go after companies like Alibaba directly (especially when listed on American stock exchanges), since they represent the Chinese government by proxy anyway. WTO complaints will take too long to be resolved. But adjudicating past grievances in present day is going to be counterproductive. In China, policies benefit the government first. That's why they have $3+ trillion in capital reserves. The US could follow the same "anti-American" policies, and that would lower the Federal budget as well as trade deficits, but it will hurt consumers by making nearly everything they pay increasingly expensive. The government can take those profits and pay off the debt or spend on a wall or the military. Who's in favor? All say, aye! http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/04/donald-trum...&yptr=yahoo More Trump ties and hats to be manufactured abroad? Guess Trump's not such a great negotiator after all if he's provoking a war before even coming close to Inauguration Day. https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-taps-forme...-111946945.html Consider swamp drained...Carson for HUD Secretary.

What are the odds that Sale lowers his value (pitching in an impossible situation where wins and losses don't matter) or, even worse, gets injured? How can we calculate the cost to have guys like Eaton and Sale knowing they have no chance at a playoff spot...and how that will affect other players (mood/attitude/chemistry/clubhouse environment) we might be bringing in? Not to mention Renteria wanting to put his own imprint on the young players from the very beginning. Hard to calculate, but that's a real thing as well.

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/why-alec-baldwin-t...-204007831.html Trump exhibits many of the classic indicating signs of dictators like Mussolini and Berlusconi from the more modern media age

Why would the White Sox want back Gio Gonzalez?

Not Carpe Diem. But which twitter source has been the most reliable/consistent so far since the end of the season?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/theres-invis...-194615738.html Invisible majority of Americans being left out by fintech/financial innovation. Surely, many of those 60% of Americans who have experienced a decrease in disposable income dating back to 2000.

Morgan was surprisingly better than I expected. Not to the level of Ex Machina, but a mostly worthwhile effort. Also had some elements of Hanna with Saorise Ronan and Eric Bana.

Has anyone been consistently right on their predictions this off-season?

Good luck next season if they don't trade Sale while essentially sitting out the entire offseason. They won't be able to give away tickets to watch Garcia get another 600 at-bats at DH.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/2016-...nt_27560464.htm China taking the high road and pinning most of the blame on Taiwan rather than confronting Trump directly...although there are some not so subtle smackdowns mixed in. The threat of selling US bonds is hollow...it would not have the desired effect on the Chinese RMB and they know that. http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/02/politics/don...iwan/index.html China has officially lodged a complaint, though...

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/201...hoo&ref=yfp Republicans haven't thought through consequences of repealing ObamaCare but not replacing it until 3-4 years down the road.

The White Sox sending out the press release about Lawrie and Garcia returning is garnering lots of guffaws and sarcastic remarks from fans. Winning.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politic...799234/?ref=yfp Going to be a long four years...Bernie Sanders, Breitbart, climate change deniers. Maybe they should all live in Beijing for one year, especially summer and winter.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 08:00 PM) I agree with you completely. He most likely will amount to nothing. But I have a sliver of hope for him. And don't hate bringing a guy like him back for 3 million for all the reasons I've mentioned throughout this thread. I've just been arguing in Avi's favor because it was getting so much hate when the news broke, when in reality, it's not as horrid as many posters have made it out to be. So what is horrid? A DH who can't put up a 700 ops is useful how exactly? Maybe if we start comparing him to Thames, Joyce and Viciedo.