Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 04:04 PM) Yeah someone needs to proof read that. It's almost like Bruce Levine wrote it...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 03:59 PM) So why do the White Sox need a 1st year arb, 2.3 WAR center fielder in 2018? Isn't that 2.3 WAR basically going to waste if he does the same thing? I mean, I've kind of walked through this multiple times now, but the idea would be to buy low and take advantage of a desperate Red Sox front office. Most of the analytics community believes JBJ is the superior asset because he's younger, cheaper, under an additional year of control, and plays a premium position. I myself personally would probably avoid doing a 1 for 1 swap because I place significant value on what Abreu does off the field. Having said that, if the Red Sox gave me a secondary piece that was too good to pass up (Chavis being my example), I'd likely take such a deal and hope for JBJ's offensive game to rebound a little bit and look into trading at the deadline or next offseason. It's usually not too hard to find a taker for a talented, fairly young CF. Again, this all assumes my scouts believe that JBJ is likely to rebound and that I can get a nice secondary piece as part of the deal.

QUOTE (asindc @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 03:29 PM) Why should we be the team to take the risk on JBJ? What risk are you referring to? He was still like a 2.3 WAR player despite a down offensive year. If you guys think Abreu is the better or more valuable player that’s completely fine, but let’s not act like JBJ is some bum and don’t ignore the fact he’s younger, cheaper, & under control for an additional year.

QUOTE (Sockin @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 03:44 PM) https://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien/status/940333429912154114 @ChuckGarfien Hahn says there’s been a heightened level of trade talk since the meetings began. I really don’t think Carlos Sanchez will be on the White Sox 72 hours from now. A lot of teams are looking for 2B and Sanchez is probably one of the more attractive options.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 02:15 PM) Kyle Glaser‏Verified account @KyleAGlaser Following Following @KyleAGlaser More Cashman mentions Sale deal last year, that Severino, Sanchez, Bird were among names White Sox floated as the price. 1:47 PM - 11 Dec 2017 Wow, haha. Big ask. I believe I through out a Severino/Judge/Mateo hypothetical and the general consensus was it was too light. If only we knew what those first two players would develop into just a year later.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 12:58 PM) I doubt we could get JBJ + anything of significance. We could always hold JBJ and flip later, sure...but his clock will be ticking. Unless he has a huge year, the best time to trade him for max value would be now. QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 01:00 PM) You really want a "buy-low type guy" to be the first piece in an Abreu deal? First off, let me say that I don't think the Red Sox would give up much beyond JBJ for Abreu. I'm just saying that if I'm the White Sox that's the type of return I'd need to give up someone as valuable to our organization as Jose. Having said that, it's real easy to make an argument that JBJ is the more valuable asset. Even without improvement with the bat, he's got an extra year of team control and will be paid a helluva lot less than Jose. That doesn't even account for the fact that JBJ plays a premium position while 1B is loaded with options (albeit most of them lesser). I mean most of the analytics community thinks the Red Sox would be crazy to even do a 1 for 1 trade and that's with projection systems like Steamer predicting a partial bounce-back for JBJ. Despite all that, I'd still be hesitant to trade Abreu in a one for one deal. But give me that second piece like Chavis and suddenly I become more willing to disrupt my clubhouse and make a trade. Again, I don't see Boston doing this, although I've seen some Red Sox fans suggest they'd be ok with such a deal. Their window is quickly closing and a prospect like Chavis shouldn't stand in their way of making a significant upgrade to their lineup today. I guess we'll see how desperate DD is now that the Yankees have added Stanton and have more moves to come.

Why can't we take on JBJ and try to flip him later? If our scouts believe he's closer to the hitter he was in 2015/2016 (wRC+ of 120ish) than last year (wRC+ of 90), then he's seems like an incredible buy low type guy. I would most definitely need a secondary piece that offers some long-term potential like Chavis, but a deal like this could make a ton of sense for us. Again, got to trust your scounts on this one.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 12:35 PM) Let's be realistic here. Clint Frazier at his absolute ceiling is a guy you dump in about two seconds if you get Gio Stanton for basically nothing but his contract. It doesn't take the universe to figure that one out. That doesn't mean he has no value. That is an incredible overreaction to the reigning MVP and HR champ falling into your lap almost by accident. 100% agree. If you're the Yankees, you most definitely take Stanton for nothing and then use Frazier to get yourself a cost controlled starter. I think this has almost no reflection on what the Yankees' scouts think of Frazier and entirely about the Yankees adding a MVP caliber talent for nothing but money.

Nice write-up. Mind elaborating on what this line meant:

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 11:18 AM) When the new top 100 rankings come out sometime in January I fully expect Hansen to take a pretty significant leap. The stuff is there and the control is improving. Frazier is overrated, and unless he's a plus defensive center fielder I don't think the bat will stick at a corner. Power potential is great, but only if you make enough contact to use it. Fangraphs was really down on his 2017 performance, rating him below replacement level offsensively, and -5.8 defensively...which is cause for concern. Buyer beware. I think you're overreacting to Frazier's first taste of big league action. And while he no doubt has some swing & miss concerns, he never struck our at a ridiculous rate in the minors. I think you're sleeping on him quite a bit.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 09:32 AM) Fulmer beat SF, Det. And a Cleveland team that already clinched. The Sox bullpen pitched 4 hitless innimgs the game vs. Cleveland. Carson has some ability, but I think people taking his September starts as meaning much is crazy. Fulmer’s late year stint gives me some hope that Cooper can tap into Carson’s potential, but it doesn’t change his trade vlaue. And honestly, I still see him as a reliever and I think they’ll move him to that role permanently as soon as Rodon comes back & Kopech is called up.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 09:26 AM) This doesn't tell the story at all. He improved his walk rate a ridiculous amount as the season went on. He's still young as crap and the fact that he was able to make those improvements tells you what you need to know about him. This. Can’t evaluate prospects solely on their full season stats. In season trends are incredibly important and Kopech was spectacular down the stretch despite exceeding his career innings threshold. The kid is the real deal and perhaps the most piece of a quick rebuild.

QUOTE (GermanSock @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 06:58 AM) he could be Randy Johnson but there is also a significant reliever risk with him. now the good Thing is that that "risk" could still mean the next chapman/miller/kimbrel so this is not so bad but I could see why one would trade a top30 hitting prospect for him. but of course there are also good arguements for keeping him. but I think it is closer than People here think, frazier probably would be the 3rd to 4th best sox prospect right now. I get the risks, but how do you expect to develop a legit #1 starter without Kopech? Maybe Hansen can get there, but the key to building a quality pitching staff from top to bottom is having lots of talented arms throughout the system. I think people are starting to get carried away with this TINSTAAPP crap when they completely ignore roster contruction and are afraid to hold onto one of the best pitching prospects in the game. Unlike the Cubs, we can’t go out and sign a Jon Lester to anchor our rotation, which makes developing on our TOR starters even more critical.

QUOTE (GermanSock @ Dec 11, 2017 -> 03:50 AM) frazier has some contact issues but so does moncada and many other prospects. frazier still has a top30 prospect last year. I would not trade eloy or moncada for him of course but kopech and almost any other sox prospect I would probably do in a 1 for 1 trade since especially kopech and other pitchers are a really big risk too. using just ops to judge prospects also isn't a good way. Tyler White (astros dude) has produced a 900 OPS at every Level and he still rightfully never was a top100 prospect. results are important but top prospects have Tools and he has a lot of them and it isnt like he never hit at all. I agree with your general premise, but no way in hell would I trade Kopech for Frazier. Kopech is probably the best pitching prospect in baseball and our best chance at developing a cost-controlled ace. You deal him and the entire complexion of our future pitching staff changes (for the worse).

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 10, 2017 -> 03:15 PM) Cubs better hope that arm doesn't fall off after the Dodgers used and abused Morrow in the playoffs. Seriously, the Cubs are committing some big dollars to guys with serious health issues in the past. Cobb will probably be next to join the fray.

So which one is it?

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 10, 2017 -> 12:05 PM) Bradley is controlled for only 1 more year than Abreu. Red Sox have an alarming lack of power. It's a more a question of why the Whitesox would want to trade Abreu for Bradley. Probably because they think he’s a more valuable asset than Abreu. We know the Sox have been high on JBJ for years. If he were to rebound a bit offensively next year, you’re talking about a CF with a ton of trade value. I’m not big on the idea of moving Abreu and I certainly don’t like getting cute with trades this early into a rebuild, but if my scouts tell me they believe in JBJ and I can get a second piece that offers some long-term potential (like a Chavis) it would be awfully hard to say no. Still can’t see DD doing that big of a overpay, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

Reading through a Red Sox message board, I’m actually surprised at how many posters would deal JBJ for Abreu. They really think they have a two year window and many of them are committed to doing everything they can maximize that opportunity. Such a plan could include trading JBJ for Abreu, moving Benintendi to CF, and signing a replacement OF in free agency. DD is definitely going to do something drastic now that the Yankees added Stanton. Maybe there’s more of a match here then some of us think.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 10, 2017 -> 10:17 AM) Can't see the Red Sox dealing Benintendi. Oh definitely not, just thought it was a wild trade proposal with the Sox trading their three biggest trade chips in one fair swoop. God bless Phil Rogers, dude has been coming up with some of the dumbest trade ideas for a good 20 years now and continues to get paid to do so.

From a Phil Rogers Winter Meetings preview: https://amp.mlb.com/263178696-al-powers-pon...impression=true

Ok, who says no: Sox trade Carlos Rodon for Clint Frazier & Justus Sheffield

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 10, 2017 -> 08:18 AM) Aren't the Red Sox more desperate for a bat, such as Abreu's, now that their chief rival has acquired Stanton? Most definitely, but we don’t match up well with them IMO. Groome & Chavis are their top two prospects and I’m not a huge fan of either, at least not as the centerpieces of an Abreu trade. For me to move Abreu I need to be blown away and that means getting JBJ & Chavis. That would be an overpay for the Red Sox, but maybe they figure they can move Benintendi to CF and sign JD Martinez for a corner spot and come out ahead overall. Dombrowski will have to do something though, cause the Yankees have improved and still have the ammo to get even better.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 07:06 PM) Hateful/inciteful/provocative...how do you plan on objectively quantifying that as being worse? Worse than the anti-Muslim videos shared on twitter two weeks ago? Isn’t more to be expected from the President of the United States than a random yahoo message board poster? What do you want to be covered that isn’t being covered? Wouldn’t the news media simply be considered more divisive for doing so? Listen to C-Span someday. They take alternating calls from Democrats, Republicans and Independents on Washington Journal. A good number of the conservative callers are currently labeling c-span as fake news and arguing they’re only focused on bad news about the administration, and calling it fake news as well. So where does real news exist anymore? What in the hell...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 08:22 PM) I know, why on Earth would Jon Lester accept a deal from a team that had averaged 92.5 losses the previous 2 years. Because he had a pre-existing relationship with the front office and for some reason got caught up in the Cubs’ “magic” like numerous free agents in the past?

QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 10, 2017 -> 07:32 AM) Cordell played half a season at Colorado Springs. That will help his stats. I wish I knew what Sox have or don't have in Cordell. Can he play Center? If so, he has to be an upgrade over our guy Engel. Is he better than Leury? I sure don't know. I’m hoping one of two things happen with Cordell. The ideal outcome would be he shows he can play a decent CF where his bat plays up and turns him into a solid regular. The fallback scenario is he proves capable of playing all four corner positions and becomes a quality bench piece. Right now I think Luery deserves the CF job to start next season, but I’d have Cordell right behind him on the depth chart. I also think Cordell is a far more interesting prospect than Engel (or Tilson for that matter).