Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Saufley @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 07:44 PM) Hmmm, Not sure I like hearing that. Clearly a leak from Cespedes' side, no reason to worry IMO.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 06:44 PM) Orioles waiting on Chris Davis. Nationals I think is more focusing on getting a CF. Cardinals best fit is the trade route, imo. Tigers are a scary team because YC has a past with them and the owner is willing to throw money all over the place. Ilitch hasn't shown a willingness to go above the luxury tax though. Can't rule them out, but I wouldn't them a serious threat at this point.

And how about Gary Sheffield, I'd say that was a successful transition.

I believe Jose Valentin played some OF towards the end of his career.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 8, 2016 -> 06:42 AM) I hope there is an announcement of Davis signing with the Orioles today. That would be about the best piece of news possible for the Sox. I do think the Span signing helps as well, as this is slowly becoming a game of musical chairs and these free agent OFs don't want to be the guy stuck without a team and be forced to take a pillow contract. I remain cautiously optimistic about the Sox's chances, but getting Baltimore out of the mix would increase my optimism significantly.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 09:11 PM) Cmon man this is pure toilet dick. It's an absolutely embarrassing post and confirms his need to be a Negative Nancy at all times.

I can accept losing out on Cespedes or Upton if it requires doing something dumb. But this not going over three years idea is beyond ridiculous. We have Chris Sale under control for four more seasons and our goal should be to maximize our ability to win during that window. The next two free agent classes are bad, so refusing to sign one of these guys will either hinder our chances to compete in the near future or cost us significant minor league talent. How is either option preferable to signing one of these guys to a 4 year deal? Honestly, I'm going to lose my s*** if we lose out on these guys because of this three year nonsense.

Not to be a dick, but I think The Dark Knight Rises is a bad Batman movie and easily the worst one in the new trilogy.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 06:35 AM) I'm certain you're raising this for argument's sake rather than believing his 2015 ISO stops any serious consideration of Markakis as Plan B (or C, D, or E). How about adding these to the brew: * Advanced professional hitter for nearly a decade * Continuing ability to be a left-handed stick * Regularly among OF leaders in OBP * Low-ish strikeouts, plus has a clue about situational hitting * Been a doubles-machine many years of his career * Last year's power numbers (first year in the NL) "MAY" be a total outlier * IS a RF * Passes the eye-test as a good defender (understand that the somewhat controversial advanced defensive metrics are mixed) * $11M AAV for the next 3 years is likely solid value for his likely WAR (likely to age fairly well given his body type) * Cool name Seriously, I can't believe I'm appearing to be an advocate for bringing in 2016 version Nick Markakis. There are all sorts of possible moves I hope we hit on before I go to Plan Whatever. That said, for some of the reasons set forth above and more, he is absolutely a solid incremental addition worth considering if we need to. It's about fit for a particular team. Brute thumping isn't the only gauge of any player, plus what tools can a possible acquisition bring to a team that a certain team might otherwise have in short supply? A football team in need of OL help doesn't forego a prospective lineman because he can't run a sub 5.0 40. IMO, this is very simple. He's averaged about 1.4 WAR over the past five years. Would he be an upgrade over Avi? Sure, as Avi was one of the worst players in baseball last year. However, the worst thing we can do right now is lock ourselves into a multi-year contract with someone who provides below average production. Even if we miss on Cespedes or Upton, with the glut of OF free agents available one of them is bound to take a pillow contract. Either commit to a significant upgrade or go short-term/cheap on a more questionable one. Markakis doesn't fall in either bucket and should be avoided at all costs.

Markakis hit 3 HRs in nearly 700 ABs. His ISO last year was .080. For perspective, Carlos Sanchez's ISO was .103. He may have a nice OBP, but no way in hell am I committing $11M/per for three years to a corner OF with those kind of power numbers.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 10:08 PM) This after show is the best thing ever. One of the greatest 30 minutes of television I have ever seen.

There is nothing good about Gordon going back to K.C. Reduces the supply of impact OFs, doesn't impact the demand for them (if you assume the Royals were all or nothing on Alex), & makes a key divisional competitor stronger. If Upton is a long-shot, then the Sox can't keep dicking around on Cespedes.

I'm sorry, but is this thread serious? Fowler has been a switch-hitter his entire career. What evidence is there to suggest he'd be better batting exclusively right-handed? Are you really using his splits against LHP to make that case? Of course he's better batting against LHP, the majority of right-handed batters are. And unlike a lot of switch hitters where the results are horrible from the weak side, he's actually been pretty solid (about a 100 wRC+), suggesting switch-hitting may be helping. Regardless, it's a huge risk to sign this guy (while giving up a pick) and have him change his entire batting approach, all in hopes of finding the perfect two hole hitter. Who cares if Gordon is left-handed and has to bat after Eaton? He'll face a ton of RHP and likely would be far more valuable in front of Abreu than Fowler would be facing RHP from the right side.

I think it's important to point there isn't one Latin American signing in that list. If I had to guess, I would have to think there are only a handful of other teams (if any) without one in their top 10. Outside of a few exceptions, we've pretty much have had to rely on the draft to build our minor league system. That's obviously changing and the good news is we'll finally see the fruits of our labor this year with the first wave of guys hitting full-season ball and a ton more interesting prospects in rookie leagues. Even if that top 10 list is a bit underwhelming, there is plenty of reasons to be optimistic about the system.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 11:39 AM) Ilitch is old and the Tigers are built to win now. Their farm system is f***ed anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them try to get one of the big 3 even if it put them over the luxury tax. They're right at the luxury tax threshold right now, so basically every dollar spent from this point forward will come with a 17.5% tax. And backloading a deal won't help, as luxury tax calculations use the AAV of all contracts. And let's not forgot the luxury tax rates increase each consecutive year you're over, so there are potential repercussions for 2017 by going over now. IMO, I think they avoid any big free agents, but you never know with Ilitch.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 11:25 AM) Anyone think Davis might be the one holding up the market? If he signs with Baltimore that takes out one of the big players. As for the other teams, it sounds like St. Louis will trade for a Colorado OF, the Tigers would be over the Luxury Tax penalty for the next several seasons if they made a big offer, and I think Ilitch has only gone over once in the past decade (2008). The Angels also seem afraid to go over the tax limit, and the Giants are currently being linked to Desmond, and if they sign him I don't think they'd also commit big money to Cespedes. There really might be a smaller market for Cespedes than we think, which makes the 3-year demands seem not so unreasonable from our side, though I still think it's just posturing. We might be able to sign him for 4 years. I 100% think Davis is holding up the market. However, I think we're starting to get to the point where both teams and the big free agent OFs can't keep waiting. At some point, teams will go to plan B's (lesser free agents or trades) and guys like Cespedes & Gordon will get stuck with even less attractive offers. These guys simply can't wait forever on a Boras client to come to a decision. I think the Nightengale leak is the Sox's way of telling these free agents to s*** or get off the pot.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 10:42 AM) Yep. This thread will get 100 posts before someone even signs. Bold prediction! ?

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 09:33 AM) Probably right but FWIW Bob said Cespedes might be the most incline to accept a short term deal with Upton being the least likely. Who knows I really just want the roller coaster to stop. Three years wouldn't make sense for Cespedes, given the crazy free agent class that year (including some serious OF free agents). If he's willing to gamble on himself, a 1 year deal makes the most sense. Otherwise, he should be pushing hard for a 5 year deal. If he reverts back to a 3 WAR type season next year, he'll end up losing out on a lot of money. Also, it's quite fascinating if the Sox really won't go beyond a 3 year deal. Right now, our only contractual obligations for 2019 are Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Eaton, & Jones and that's assuming we exercise their options. Combined they make $49M, although that will probably go up a bit assuming Abreu elects free agency. Obviously there would be some arb guys too, but overall we'd be in great shape to be serious players in the crazy 2019 free agent class. With our TV expiring right around that time, I wouldn't be surprised if that indeed is their big plan in hopes of driving up the value of a new contact.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 09:27 AM) Nightengale saying three years maybe a must in order for the sox to get one of the three. Is a must from the players' perspective? If so, I'm not sure that's really news. I would assume 4 years is a must with Gordon & Cespedes. And quite frankly, I'd be very surprised if they Cespedes took less than 5 years. He's coming off a monster season and needs to capitalize.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 09:14 AM) None of us really know how much ownership is willing to spend this year, or next. Perhaps, they're not even sure, themselves. Whatever the projected budget, it has nothing to do with the concept that "GreenSox" and I are advocating, regarding front loading a contract, with a player "opt out". I'm curious, "Caulfield12," putting aside the issue of budget constraints, do you agree with the notion, and if not, why not? Of course it does, it's hard to front-load a contract if you're already struggling to fit that signing into your budget. Theoreticallly sound ideas like the one you're proposing don't always equal practical ideas.

This confirms to me that Gordon is their focus. No way in hell 3 years gets you in the door with Cespedes. My guess is Gordon is looking for a 5 year deal right now and the Sox are using this leak as a way to get him to "settle" at 4 years.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jan 1, 2016 -> 07:19 AM) What? Who? I think he's referring to Ty Cobb. Regardless, being a scumbag off the field and cheating on the field are two completely different issues. IMO, outside of the most extreme cases, the Hall shouldn't concern themselves with character issues. Also, using steroids & HGH is a on a completely different level of cheating than using greenies. It's like comparing heroine to weed in terms of recreational drugs. And I'm not justifying the use of greenies either, but we can't go back in time and kick out everyone that ever used them (nor would we know). The HOF voters can try to right the ship now in terms of steroids when factual evidence is readily available. It's interesting to me that most of the people who are in favor of letting known PED users like Bonds & Clemens in grew up in the Steriod Era. If there was ever a time for GreenSox to call people hero-worshippers, now would be the time. And I say this as someone who also grew up in the era. These guys did some amazing stuff and nothing will ever be able to take that away from us, but to glorify known cheaters by electing them into the Hall is 100% wrong. Getting into the Hall of Fame is a big deal for these guys and those that were caught cheating in a significant way don't deserve that satisfaction.

Can I change my name to "John"?

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 06:10 PM) Just to clarify, Melky signed a 3/42M contract that pays him 13M/14M/15M during those three years. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...shtml#contracts If KC did actually offer Gordon 4/52M, that is a low-ball offer in that the annual value doesn't even meet Melky's. I'm not a fan of signing Gordon but he's definitely better and worth more than Melky. I think 4/72M is about what Gordon ends up with unless a team goes five years. Good catch. Still, it's an insulting offer to a guy who has been one of the best position players in baseball over the past few years. My guess is the Royals have come up from that number, but it's even remotely true, there should he a large gap between K.C. and other interested suitors. He's not going to take an 8 figure discount if the years are the same.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 06:04 PM) Worth noting how much you're doing the same thing I would be if I said how terrible he was in May - selectively including 1 month. OPS+ by month: Apr: 78 May: 48 June: 100 July: 185 Aug: 107 Sept: 88 On the whole season, his spectacular July balances out his terrible May, leaving him as an "average" hitter with a 100 OPS. That would be bad for a DH, it's weak for a corner OF, and if you throw in poor defense, well there you go. Lol...I saw this post coming a mile away. Unfortunately, you can't be objective with former roiders, so I'm not even going to waste my time. Regardless, I'm confident he will put numbers closer to his 2011 & 2014 seasons than his 2015 season next year. Guys have flukey months and if you watched him hit in May it wasn't the same Melky we've seen im recent years.