DBAHO

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 06:59 AM) Agreed. I want no part of the days of Mark Johnson, Josh Paul and Miguel Olivo. AJ flat out spoiled us last year. When you see the market for catchers this off-season though (e.g Jomina getting 3 years/16M), it makes me a little nervous as to what A.J could get. But we need to lock him up, no ifs or buts. A lot of people thought he was the main addition that really kickstarted this team, and the stats prove it (e.g CERA compared to previous catchers etc.)

Maybe a team like Texas who are desperate for a starter could possibly have a little interest in him. In the NL, in the right situation (say with San Diego), he could still be successful, if his arm could hold up.

I still think Arizona is going to have interest in Marte. If they're smart, maybe they'll try to jump in on the Florida fire sale (although who else would you want from their pen), or try to get Mota from Boston. Marte will definitely still have a good market. It's just is there a good enough replacement for him. We can't rely on Cotts to definitely put up the same numbers he did in 2005.

QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 08:37 PM) I happen to think that Corey Patterson would be a good gamble for us... First off his value is perhaps at the lowest that it will ever be... His defense is light years ahead of Pierre... We wouldn't have to give up much to get him... Then you have the downside... He would have to be kept toward the bottom of the order... He would have to realize that he's never going to be a sexy Sammy Sosa like power hitter... But his value is so low at this point it would be worth the gamble... Besides that could you imagine if Corey did come to the southside, had a great year, and helped to lead us to the playoffs, it would be a PR nightmare for the Cubs... Corey Patterson - .215/.254/.414 (last 3 years 552/111 K/BB ratio) Juan Pierre - .276/.326/.354 (last 3 years 211/226 K/BB ratio) Good defense alone, doesn't make you a better player.

QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 08:57 PM) Gio Gonzalez= Arnie Munoz Well for starters, Munoz did his best work in the pen (early 2004 at B-Ham is the anomaly), and Gio just put up 48 more K's then Munoz did in Arnie's best season. You can't definitely say, Gio is going to fail at the higher levels like Arnie did. Some of our pitchers like B-Mac and Haigwood THRIVED when they made the jump from high A to AA. He'll be 20 at the start of next season and will probably be in AA ball I'd say. That's very impressive at that age, with the K/9 ratio's he put up.

My guess is we're holding onto Marte, simply for the fact, is there a better replacement out there on the FA Market? No, probably not. So in essence, if you trade Marte, you'll have to trade for a good replacement lefty LOOGY.

QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Nov 25, 2005 -> 08:46 PM) I will go on record as saying that Gio doesn't ever become any better then a 5th starter... and he'll be out of baseball by the time he's 30, either by injury or just disappointment... Ok can you tell me some logic why for this statement? Has he done anything in the minors so far that will suggest this? No. This is what John Sickels said about him (he was rated 2005 pre-season as our #2 prospect); He's only 19, yet he's already in high A ball and pitching well. And if you read the various blurbs on the net about him.....

QUOTE(Harry&JimmyRocked @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 11:21 PM) he never got any respect from the organization. NEVER! i wish him well. How did the White Sox not give him respect?

QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 10:00 PM) Don't get too attached to him being on the Philles either... He will be in pin stripes in just a few months... And yet the Yanks could end up with Jason Michaels if Pat Gillick decides Rowand is the guy he wants to keep.

With the way Ozzie spoke glowingly about him as his "MVP" the only move I can see Tadahito making is down the order. Of course if we can't get Crede locked up, Bill Mueller could be an option, even though I'd prefer Joe, after the way he came on this season. Of course one last option still is RF. Dye could conceiveably move to 1st, if we can't re-sign Paulie, and that opens up the scenario of signing a #2 hitter who plays RF (Xavier Nady, Bobby Abreu, Eric Byrnes, Chad Tracy, Reggie Sanders perhaps?), and maybe bringing Thomas back as a DH guy off the bench if he wants to come back in that position (although I'd extremely doubt it). EDIT: Phil Rogers is also talking up the chances of Jerry Owens possibly beating out Anderson. Certainly if he has an excellent spring training, and Ozzie really wants that speed input at the #2 hole, I wouldn't completely rule it out, although right now it's a 90% bet that Brian Anderson will be patrolling CF come opening day in 2006.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 09:31 PM) Rowand to Philly in a deal for Thome was exactly what I thought was going to happen. So, yes, I can say I could see this one coming. They were linked with Torii Hunter earlier in the off-season, and since Lofton wasn't going to return, and they only had Jason Michaels and Endy Chavez in CF, it was a need for them. Luckily we were able to match for our needs and there's.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 08:38 PM) I know what they were, and what they are. I also know that they were as highly regarded around here as these two we traded today, if not more so. I disagree on that, but that's JMHO. Gio's a top 5 prospect in this organization, Haigwood would be pushing it after the season he had. I don't think Diaz or Munoz would have been close to getting there at any point in their White Sox minor league career, they'd be scraping around the top 10 mark. But of course if the Sox actually handled Diaz like they did with B-Mac, we could have a different story with him today also. But I think they've definitely learned their lesson in terms of that.

QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 08:34 PM) Of course when BMAC did the exact same thing he became the messiah... Now let's have a look at B-Mac. He struggled when he first came up, and the vast MAJORITY of people here on Soxtalk gave up on him. Said he was never going to amount to anything. And yet, the Sox sent him down to AAA, got him workin on his change, and he came back up and everyone loved him again. See prospects can actually contribute in the majors. You just need patience. B-Mac has shown that. Gio and his injury history, well he's a lot like Barry Zito in terms of stuff and build etc., and Zito came out alright didn't he. And we'll see on Anderson. You've already said he's already proven to be nothing special. But like I said above, Sox fans need to have PATIENCE with him. Aaron Rowand didn't first come up and contribute fantastic numbers did he.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 08:29 PM) You have to go a back a bit farther in time than that. Prior to the ML appearances, Diaz and Munuz were very highly thought of around here. Munoz was as a relief pitcher, but he still struggled in the high areas of the minors (besides early 2004 in B-Ham). Diaz had 1 good season in AAA and that was it. I rate Gio and Dan higher than those 2, and I'm sure pretty much all of the minor league gurus would as well. Haigwood's season this year was a lot like B-Mac's in 2004, and Brandon himself has said Dan's got the best stuff out of any minor league pitcher in the organization. And Gio being in high A already and still doing quite well (especially those K/BB ratios) is another good sign.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 08:13 PM) I think you are on crack. In my time being here on this site people never got very excited about any of these three mentioned. Did some people think they could hold down the fifth spot in the rotation for a while? Yes. Did people think they would be apart of our future and be anything more than a fifth starter in a pinch? No. Thank you. Gonzalez especially and Haigwood are quality prospects. When were Josh Stewart, Felix Diaz and Arnie Munoz ever that? Sure Munoz has the stuff to make it in a major league pen (even though it probably won't be here). And who was going gaga over those 3? Last time I checked, Felix Diaz was referred to as Tee-Ball for the way hitters lit him up in the big leagues.

QUOTE(JoshPR @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 04:55 PM) That's my problem this team goes out and wins the series and still has to manuvre under the JR salary Cap. I don't wanna be an ass, but i just don't agree with this trade. Sorry. GOing back to the damn mashing Josh in case you haven't noticed, payroll has been going up consistently for the past 5 season. With this move, and the (hopefully) re-signings of Crede, Konerko, Garland and A.J (that's about $22-27M right there for next season), and after the extra financial revenue from the World Series, there's no reason to think the payroll won't be lower than $85-90M. Compared to the other teams in this division (excluding Detroit but they're nuts), that ain't a salary cap.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 07:28 PM) I've read through about 20 pages of this thread. Wide range of comments and emotions expressed, that's for sure. Here's a few thoughts in reaction to ssome the comments, in general. I agree with the train of thought that prosects are suspects until proven otherwise. Acquiring Thome was a move KW had to make, if it was at all reasonable. Frank is a great big "?" and Thome offers substantially less risk. Delgado was already off the market and big bats are scarce. Getting Thome, in addition to adding a great LH thumper, also serves as an insurance policy in case Paulie flies the coop. Aaron Rowand. Wow. What else can be said about this guy. I've loved him since he came up to Sox and I really hate to lose him. He's a gamer and he'll always be one of my all time favorite Sox players. That said, this trade just makes sense for the Sox, both long term and short term. We have needed a Jim Thome type player for years. We have a slew of good young outfield talent just waiting to force their way into Chicago. We'll leave Arizona with one them having done so, more than likely. If not, then we have acquired Pierre of someone else. YAS for the last couple of years I know you've definitely said we needed a LH power hitter, and it definitely makes a lot of sense. We just weren't that good against righties at all last season, and with Everett leaving, we needed at least 1 lefty hitter to help pick up the slack there. To put this into recognition, in 03 and 04 his good seasons with the Phillies, he had splits of .272/.405/.623 and .294/.435/.641 against righties. The White Sox as a team last season hit .259/.318/.417 against righties. Expect that to change for the better in 2006. Thome also for his career has splits of .286/.382/.600 at the Cell. That's a .982 OPS. Konerko was the best White Sox player last season (obviously) with a .909 OPS.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 06:56 PM) You don't serve any other purpose in society. She can always come live down here (and bring your little sis too). This was always on the cards though. Should be interesting to see if we'll ever hear from Nick Lachey again.

I'm on the fence. Of course it comes down to what Thome does offensively for the next 3 years. Is he going to get back to that previous form? How much will he regress by the end of his deal? I don't like giving up BOTH Gio and Haigwood though. I would have preferred to try and used Ray Liotta in there and keep one of Gio or Dan, but I'm guessin KW probably tried that and was shot down by Gillick. But I think Philly did very well out of this. Realistically, this was only a 2 team race, and maybe the Sox should have waited a bit, but there are so many other factors to consider (e.g Frank and Paulie contract's etc.), that probably brought this to fruition today.

I've long said with Rowand, if he can post a +.800 OPS, for the excellent defensive CF that he is, he'd slot into almost every team very nicely. Whether he can do that next season, the odds are probably a little in his favor. He had splits of .282/.327/.401 in away games, indicating a higher average but worse plate discipline (60/7 K/BB ratio). So really, if he can cut down on the K's, and increase the BB's a little, he should be able to reach that .800 OPS mark.

QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 05:13 PM) If one more uneducated bandwagon fan brings up Juan Peirres name i'm going to puke... He has no place here... At all.. Anderson is the only option... Hell if they want a speed guy to get bad routes on balls and have balls fly over his head then put Willie Harris in CF... It will save us 5 mil dollars.. Because....... (and please show me the stats that show this). Yes Pierre is a downgrade on defense, but can you tell me right now, he's going to hit .276 again next season? No you can't, and that's what Ozzie and KW will be banking on if they trade for him (but he's most likely going to the Cubs anyway). Jackass Jones, he's getting $5-6M over 2 to 3 years, most likely from Seattle. So he's not an option. As for other options, well I'd likely to have a lefty OF that can actually hit righties (and no that's not Timo for $1M). Options for this include Matt Lawton, Kenny Lofton (even though he's pretty much done), Orlando Palmeiro (although he can't handle CF), and Michael Tucker (although he doesn't hit much better than Timo). Otherwise we'll have to look in the trade market.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 09:25 PM) How can you say that after an extremely small sample size? Yeesh. And so now we'll be seeing how special Anderson is now right..............

QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 04:47 PM) On paper, maybe, but after Vlad's performance in the ALCS this year I would go with Manny and Ortiz. I agree with what The Hawk said a few times this year that those two back to back in the late innings are absolutely scary. Taking away Vlad's playoff performance though, his season stats this season were really quite scary considering the amount of games he played. So you could argue either way, but I think Vlad's just a little bit of a better hitter when they're both at their best, but that's JMHO.

Ryan's most likely to get 4 years b/w $30M and $36M. Shows how good the Dustin Hermanson signing was in the last off-season though doesn't it.

I locked my parents out of it when I was 5.