ChiSox59

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 07:51 AM) But why pick up a $13.5M option on Buchholz if they don't plan on plugging him into the rotation? Pomeranz and Wright fill the other two spots. Rodriguez appears to be the odd man out. A deal centered around Nate Jones and Rodriguez makes sense for both sides. Nate Jones is far more valuable than Eduardo Rodriguez. See Giles, Ken.

QUOTE (maxjusttyped @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 04:15 PM) They probably would be if he wasn't one of the best pitchers in baseball on a bargain contract. This. Just clowns trying to lower his price.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 02:27 PM) No Puig? As a throw in? I guess? If the Dodgers attribute any real value value to him (and I think they do) - then no way in a Sale/Q trade.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 01:01 PM) Buuuuuuut the Cardinals do other things well as an organization which keeps them competitive year in and year out. The reason the draft hurts our Sox is because we pick high and draft busts. We hit on a few pitchers but since we suck at trading, FA signings, hiring managers etc we need one thing to hang our hats on. Ugh. Generally, the Sox haven't picked that high. The Sox currently hold some of the best assets in baseball (Sale, Quintana, Eaton) and to a lesser extent (Abreu, Jones, Rodon) due to drafting (Sale, Jones, Rodon), great trades (Eaton) and great signings (Quintana and Abreu). The Sox problems have been filling out the back end of the roster over hte past 8 or so years. Don't get me wrong, the Sox got nothing out of the draft for a long time. Just seems like a weird time to get your panties all in a bunch over the draft. There is obvious improvement there over the past handful of years. Sure, there are still busts (Walker and Barnum included), but every team has those.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 01:00 PM) I agree 100%. I think I wrote in some other thread that the right course is to enter the winter immediately as a seller to get a lay of the land. If an offer presents itself that seems fair (in the context of the seller's market, so more than you'd expect in an average market), the time to move is now -- because there isn't likely to be a better seller's market on the horizon. If the offers are low, we can afford to try again at the deadline. Sign some one-year veterans, hope to hit gold, and sell if you don't. We're on the same page.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 12:54 PM) You have no problem spouting your opinion and not hiding the fact that you have a pretty disparaging view of Sox fans..., disloyal, inferior to Cub fans in terms of quality of their fandom...etc .. and recently, pretty much discounted Sox history or anyone with any recollection of it pre-1985, as totally irrelevant Does it ever occur to you that some folks might take offense to that? feel insulted by that? But when challenged, you start whining and crying that you're being picked on... .. talk about thin skin, guy... sheesh.. As an outsider to this conversation, not sure what you're adding to the board with these types of comments and attacks? IMO, SS is a great poster and brings a lot to the table. Maybe some of his comments weren't all that inaccurate? Having grown up outside of Illinois, but having been a die hard Sox fan since I was a young child due to my father - I can't say I disagree with some of what you said above. Sox fans on a whole a pretty fickle, negative, and somewhat disloyal group. Obviously not saying all are....but from reading this board and WSI over the years and encountering more and more Sox fans as I get older...there is large chunk that fit that description.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 09:45 AM) The Cardinals first round picks since 2007, and it's technically over 20 guys, collectively has the same WAR as Sale. Exactly.

Great article. Nice to hear it from an outsider.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 11:40 AM) Here's an idea, and feel free to tell me if I'm a complete idiot. Sox trade: Sale & Eaton to the Cubs Sox receive: Heyward and a combo of young players. So, I would assume the Cubs would love to have Sale and are quite displeased with what they've got with Heyward. Eaton would be downright scary on the Cubs. He'd give them more of a LH presence which Heyward couldn't provide, AND they'd shed this huge contract. Well, why would the Sox want to trade their two best players (arguably) AND take on an albatross of a contract? Goal would be for it to land them more of the Cubs premium young position players. Could this then land them something like Schwarber, Baez, AND a handful of top prospects? Yah, let's trade our 2 best assets who are vastly underpaid for an extremely overpaid player..... I stopped reading after the bolded, but I guess it depends on who the "combo of young players is", but this is never going to happen.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 11:19 AM) When the Sale happens (pun intended) attendance drops will accelerate. Fans may say that they want a rebuild, but they won't support it. I know - it was tongue in cheek.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:57 AM) We all know the "excitement" over the rebuild will last about as long as it takes for these kids to start playing games and for them to not be superstars right away. Yah, and when the Sox average 10,000 fans. If you're for a rebuild, support the team if/when it happens.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:41 AM) IMO, Boston, Texas, Houston, Dodgers, Cubs, Braves, Yankees are the only teams that could offer a good package for either Sale or Q. And some of those would really need to sell their farms. Twins probably could, but they never would.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:20 AM) This is all speculation. As is assuming Benentendi and Moncada were available in July.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 11:19 AM) No they don't, because they know it does no good for the Sox to keep them. You can play this waiting game once or twice, but eventually, you've got to move them, and the buyers know it. And while there isn't anything comparable on the FA market, there certainly are other quality pitchers that will be made available for prospect packages. We don't know who they are today, but they will be made available. As for the spoiling comment, I mean in terms of their control by the White Sox. The motivation by another team is to acquire them, win with them, and then potentially extend them. But actually WINNING SOMETHING is the motivation to trade a ton of talent for them. We're talking 3 and 4 years of control here. As Dick said earlier, there is a point where their value is so high that no one is going to meet the price. I think we're getting closer to the point where a trade may be possible, but we still may not be there quite yet. That doesn't mean the Sox basically punt a year of control for either of these guys to get a package you could get in a year. In the history of baseball, an ace has never been traded with 3 years of control left who is paid about 25% of his AAV on the FA market. Ever! Sure, if the Sox hold Sale for 3 more years of playoff-less baseball and then let him leave via FA, they've screwed up. But we have a long time to go until then. The Sox still hold the cards.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:56 AM) It's pretty much an unprecedented trade to give up an ace signed cheaply for 3 more years. I really don't know if teams would be able to pay that much more than they would if he had 2 years left on his deal, which seems to be when guys get dealt now, and usually at a higher payroll number than Sale requires. To me there is a limit on what teams can and will give up. Yes, he might be less valuable next year, but that doesn't necessarlly mean the package to acquire him will be less. This too.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:45 AM) It isn't that simple, though. You have to consider injury risk, the depreciation of value as each year goes away, and then you also have to look ahead a bit at your own chances to compete and the market's opportunities to sell. I agree that now is the right time to strike, but I don't want to the Sox to settle for a so-so package just because. Sale, and Quintana will still have a boatload of trade value next summer, and next offseason.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 09:52 AM) Missing on this deal could literally cost the team a decade. Yes, they need an overpay. They need a grand slam home run of a deal. Agreed. Or you hold. The Sox continue to hold the cards. Remember: Chris Sale - 3 years; Jose Quintana - 4 years.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 09:43 AM) Well that's a point I've been making. I don't trust our FO moving in any direction. We've tried to rebuild and get younger but we suck at drafting players and trading for young ones. Maybe if we did a better job identifying pieces that fit and would work we'd be okay. We've blown way to many draft picks. First round picks since 2005 Lance Broadway Kyle McCulloch Aaron Poreda Gordan Beckham Jared Mitchell Josh Phegley Chris Sale Keenyn Walker Courtney Hawkins Keon Barnum Tim Anderson Carlos Rodon Carson Fulmer A few years prior Gio Gonzalez Tyler Lumsden Josh Fields Brian Anderson Royce Ring Kris Honel Folks this is why we suck. We hit on one, maybe 2 pitchers so far and Gio brought value in a trade. We screwed up with all but one position player thus far and he may just be mediocre. If your FO can't draft or find solid players to trade and sign into the organization you are screwed whether you rebuild or retool. Starting with Chris Sale, the Sox have improved immensely with drafting, including their first round picks. Walker was taken 47th overall, and Barnum 48th, which were sandwich round picks and not first rounders in the traditional sense. Missing picks in the back end of the top 50 isn't exactly something unique to the White Sox.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 5, 2016 -> 05:05 PM) My question is does anybody think trading Q + a smart signing or 2 of midtier free agents would get us into legit playoff contention? Or is it unrealistic to think a package of young players would lead to instant success? Like if we got Benintendi, Travis Shaw, and Eduardo Rodriguez (+a couple top prospects) + sign Jason Castro and Carlos Gomez would you feel comfortable going for a playoff run like that? Or don't sign anybody and keep trading guys off? Realistically probably not, but I think this is likely the way they go, and I'll be OK with that.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 01:27 PM) Eaton is under contract for SO LONG it only makes sense to move him if a team blows you away. There's no reason why Adam Eaton can't be a contributor on the next competitive White Sox team even after a rebuild. Eaton is where Sale was 2 years ago - if you don't screw up the next 2 years, you still have Adam Eaton under team control after a couple years of repair. Oh, I am completely with you. His comment was player he DID NOT want to move, and Eaton was not on it. Hence the "no Eaton?" comment. Adam Eaton is one of the most valuable players in the game right now. You only trade him if someone wants to give you close to what you should get for Sale. He's going no where, and I like that.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 02:32 PM) Right, most of us agree that we could use Cespedes -- but if we weren't willing to pay for him when he was desperate and his market was suppressed, what makes you think we'll pay for him now that he's older and his market is about to be massively inflated? And, conceptually, we all agree we need a C, a CF, and a bullpen arm or two -- but that's kind of the point of this thread: look at that list and see if you can find those guys. Catchers Alex Avila (30) Drew Butera (34) Jason Castro (30) Hank Conger (29) A.J. Ellis (36) Ryan Hanigan (36) Nick Hundley (33) Chris Iannetta (34) Jeff Mathis (34) Dioner Navarro (33) A.J. Pierzynski (40) Wilson Ramos (29) Wilin Rosario (28) Carlos Ruiz (38) — $4.5MM club option with a $500K buyout Jarrod Saltalamacchia (32) Geovany Soto (34) Kurt Suzuki (33) Matt Wieters (31) It's Wilson Ramos, who is coming off a serious injury, and then nothing. Which means Ramos is going to make way too much. Center Fielders Peter Bourjos (30) Michael Bourn (34) Yoenis Cespedes (31) — can opt out of remaining two years, $47.5MM on current contract Coco Crisp (37) Rajai Davis (36) Ian Desmond (31) Dexter Fowler (31) Carlos Gomez (31) Tyler Holt (28) Austin Jackson (30) Jon Jay (32) Alex Presley (31) Logan Schafer (30) Drew Stubbs (32) Total jack. Cespedes isn't even a CF. Ian Desmond? Desmond is going to get a QO. He's likely out.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 12:53 PM) I'm open to trading pretty much anyone. Only "core" guys I would be hesitant on moving are Rodon, Anderson, Saladino, & Jones. If we go full rebuild, I think you keep Jones and let him be the closer for four months and then deal him at the deadline. I definitely don't expect a full rebuild though. But not Eaton?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 01:18 PM) And I may as well point out that I agree with you and I disagree with the move in advance. Leave him back there, give him 2-3 years to work his way up, and see if you can pull together a really good hitting catcher when the team is ready to compete. He'll be in RF up in June next year to save the season because how could a competitive team be falling this far out of the wild card race when we did everything right again? I'll hate it when it happens. Let's be real, you'd hate anything the Sox do. It won't matter - take it to the bank.

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 11:16 AM) 2) Trade SP Jose Quintana and Tyler Saladino to Texas Rangers for Joey Gallo 1B/3B, Jurckison Profar SS/2B, Yohander Mendes SP, and Leody Taveras OF After another early exit from the playoffs. Rangers decide to pull the trigger and go after elite talent Quintana. Quintana gives Texas probably the best #1-3 starters in all of baseball with Hamels, Darvish, and Quintana. Plus you can’t go wrong with ridiculous cheap contract. Sox in return get their future 1B in Joey Gallo. Gallo possesses 80 power and in a bandbox such as Guaranteed Rate Park/Can’t believe that’s our stadium name he should have no problem hitting 40+ homers each season. If Gallo can improve his contact rate and cut down his K% and manage to hit 230-250 avg with .350 OBP we are looking at a key piece for the future. Former #1 overall prospect Profar can play any position in the field. Finally he played a full season and showed solid production after dealing with shoulder issues the past two seasons. Profar regressed little with making hard contact and stealing bases. That should've been expected after 2 years away from the game. Hopefully having an healthy offseason to prepare for next season will bring back some of the tools that made him the best prospect in the game. Yohander Mendes SP is left hander who made a brief appearance with Rangers this past year. He throws a plus fastball and changeup that has nice tilt to it. The third pitch/slider is the key which still needs some time to develop. If the slider developes he can be instantly put in your mid-rotation. The lottery ticket is OF Leody Taveras a big international signing in 2015. Made his debut in the states and showed 5 tools across the board. Taveras has one of the highest ceilings in all of baseball. Not bad mouthing your entire post as you obviously put a ton of time into it, but this would be horrible trade for Quintana.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 3, 2016 -> 03:23 PM) I'm pretty sure he can decline the assignment, and if he can, he will. He's done with the White Sox. Indeed.