ChiSox59

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 03:24 PM) Groome was just drafted and can't be a part of any deal until after the World Series. Gotcha, not concerned about him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 03:16 PM) The Boston package isn't possible until the off seaosn. Why? None of those guys are on the ML roster.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 03:10 PM) To be quite honest if we got Moncada, Benitendi and Kopech, I'm fine. Get some interesting young players to round it out. With these guys, we can afford to be greedy!!!!

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:25 PM) After tonight, the Sox play 17 of the next 20 away from the Cell. Hope the players don't revolt in protest. Good one. In other news, Kyle Hendricks has a era below 2.50!?!? Da fuk?

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:54 PM) Can say @whitesox love @RedSox CF Andrew Benintendi. He could be the front man in a multi-player Chris Sale trade if talks progress. https://twitter.com/philgrogers/status/758012007006277632 He'd need to be co-front man with Moncada, or the Red Sox can get bent.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 02:08 PM) Yes. That's better than paying Shields what we still owe him. The bolded is extremely arguable, I'm glad you acknowledge that. If a pitcher's good results have ever been smoke and mirrors in the history of baseball, it is with Shields in the last six starts. The guy is washed up. I think he's a solid #4, and paid accordingly.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 02:07 PM) Who cares if Beck starts every fifth day? That would be ideal to have Beck, Turner, and Raunado in the rotation to finish the season. It gives you a chance to see whether they are players that are ever going to be of any value and if not, helps you catch the Twins and Braves in the reverse standings. If you are rebuilding, adding another type five pick to your new core of Collins, Anderson, Fulmer, and Rodon (plus whatever you pick up in deals) only can help in the long run. There is no benefit to finishing as a middle of the pack team. It depends on what happens these next few days. If the Sox go crazy and trade everybody, fine. But I think it is highly unlikely they do that, for reasons I already explained in another thread on the main page and don't care to repeat myself - SEE POST #59 if you care to. While admittedly remote, I happen to think the Sox still have a chance. Really all you have to do in today's game is be around .500 this time of year to have a chance. Will it take a great 2 months of ball? Absolutely. I just don't see the Sox trading Sale and Q in the next week, and if they don't do that, I see no point in trading Shields and running a Beck or Turner or Raunado out there every 5th day. It'd be the least White Sox thing ever to trade off all their pieces right now, but maybe they've actually decided to turn the page. We'll see, but it makes much more sense to do next season or after 2017, IMO.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:58 PM) If there are actually any takers, please do just give him away. His FIP during this - ahem - hot streak is 5.07. He's allowing a .221 BABIP and his strikeout numbers would make Mark Buehrle blush. His peripherals are significantly worse than when he was sporting a shiny 3 ERA in San Diego before he went kaboom and we still traded for him anyway. He is bad now and any evidence to the contrary is a magic trick. I would gleefully welcome any opportunity to get him off the Sox. And watch Chris Beck start everything 5th day? No thanks. If they can get something useful, fine. Someone else's Erik Johnson and a low level flyer, ok. The sox have zero pitching depth, and unless they plan to unload one of Chris or Q, it is going to remain that way. Shields is getting paid by the Sox arguely less than what he is worth - so i repeat, don't just give him away.

Don't just give him away.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 11:23 AM) On this market, if someone believes Shields is fixed that could be huge. I'd prefer to keep him. We need pitching.

Prayers for a quick recovery. I can't imagine.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:58 AM) Right but I think Lillian's post was more concerning what his salary would be next year in his final arbitration year. And that number I think will be based off of the $5.1 million deal he signed and not the $1.25 million + major league minimum that he was actually paid this year. Yessir.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:37 AM) Buying would be a mistake. Turning down a really good offer for either sale or Quintana would also be a mistake. However, if they don't get the offer they want ie, no moncada, mazara or urias from the respective teams, it would not be a mistake to wait until the offseason to make the deals. This. Or midseason next year if they suck again, or after 2017. They still have a window to be good next year with keeping this team intact and adding a couple stopgaps. The Sox are only going to trade Q or Sale if the offer is to good to be true. Too many people around here just want to see trades - the Sox need to do this the right way. Patience.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:50 AM) The contract he signed with the Orioles to avoid arbitration was 1 year $5.1 million. The Orioles released him before it became guaranteed and paid him the required 25% buyout much like the Sox did with Viciedo. I would think that the $5.1 million is the number an arbitrator would look at if it goes to arbitration next year. Right, but the team acquiring him (if traded) is on the hook for the pro-rated amount of the $5-600k.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:25 AM) Ranaudo can be sent down and recalled at will this year, he was optioned in '14, '15 and '16 so this is his final option year. Correct.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:04 AM) He has had 11 quality starts, out of 14 chances. That is extraordinary for a number 4 or 5 starter. He has one more year of control, before he becomes a free agent after next season. His current $5 million contract is a bargain. What do you think he will get in arbitration? Sox signed him to a minor league deal. He makes much less than $5M, more like $500k.

Jose has been disappointing, no doubt about it. But even the 2016 version is an above average bat making below average salary for a 1B. He's been a problem because we expected him to be better, but Jose is not THE problem with this team. I would be down with him DHing a bit more often, his glove seems to have gotten worse.

Just keep winning.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 06:36 PM) Sox are a disgrace at least this week. Sale is available, but noooo ... he's suspended for no reason. Make him pay for the gawd-damn uniforms and call it a day. Head scratching. Pretty soon they are gonna have no fans. They are testing the fans' patience with their ineptitude. We have about a 3 percent chance of winning this game. My gawd. We're pitching a hack against Arietta. Good luck to us. There's no reason to suspend the guy over what he did. Wow. This reaches a new level..even for you.

QUOTE (Capn12 @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 04:33 PM) If the organization FINALLY commits to a proper rebuild, it gets them out of ~28-30 million and ~2.5 years owed to a position that really won't mean much for a rebuilding team. $30M does nothing for me as a fan. If they're gonna do a full rebuild and trade everything of value outside of Eaton and Abreu, fine - trade Robertson. But just trading him for a B level prospect and not moving anybody else of substance is worthless. That said, I think he's worth more than that. Look what 2.5 months of Chapman just netted.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 04:20 PM) Ranaudo IS getting the start Wednesday now. Ask and you shall receive. Where are you seeing this?

QUOTE (bruni @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 03:22 PM) Yankees take the entire haul received from Cubs for Chapman, add #2 overall catching prospect Gary Sanchez AND Pineda (Coop will fix him!) for Sale. Sox immediately solve long term catching issue with Sanchez and most recent #1 Collins, get stronger up the middle in time with McKinney and Rashard Crawford, acquire stud middle infielder Torres (who I would convert into a 2B) and have both Warren and Pineda to bolster starting pitching staff. Gross. Add Severino and Judge, in addition to all those guys, and I still don't know if I like it.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 02:47 PM) There is absolutely no way that Quintana and Robertson bring that package. Then they don't get Quintana (ignoring the Castillo part - doubt the Sox have any interest, even if they're only picking up a few million).

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 02:44 PM) But also, WTF. Your life is fascinating. No s***, please do share.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 11:13 AM) I think the Sox don't have any good choices. But I've come to the view at the moment that their most likely path is to try again to patch holes in the offseason and go for it again in 2017. Chris Sale and Quintana will always be tradeable, so there is no rush to unload them, and their value won't be lower next season. The only guys you could unload for some value before their run is up is Frazier and Lawrie and Melky. All are signed through next year. What would they net? Would it be enough to go for the tear down now, as opposed to next year, if the Sox fail again? I think any tear down is looking at another 3+ years to anything competitive, under best case scenarios. At that point, Rodon is nearing the end of his first contract, Anderson is starting arbitration, Eaton will be over 30. In short, there will be no one left from this current team that will be a bargain player the way that Sale, Quintana and Eaton are now. And waiting another year to start the rebuild will give you another year of development of whatever we have in the minors. And since all those guys are years off, that's a plus, not a minus. If we had several guys on the cusp, a tear down now might yield a more rapid return to relevance. I don't see that. So, the Sox should play out the year. Unload any guys with 1-year contracts who won't be back for whatever you can get. But keep all the pitchers and the 2-year guys, make what moves you can in the offseason, and try again. As part of going for it in 2017, however, the Sox have to try it with a different manager. Ventura has had 2 years of tweaked teams to show something, and he's failed. Not sure a new manager will make the difference, but it has to be tried. Going into next year, the Sox could be stronger. SP - Sale and Q will still anchor. Shields can be a solid #3. Rodon needs to be a lot better. Gonzalez might be kept as one of the options for the 5th slot. This would be better than they started 2016. BP - lots of guys injured at the moment. Return to health should improve this unit. Plus Fullmer and Burdi might strengthen it. Fullmer might also be considered as a 5th starter option. Lineup keepers. Anderson, Eaton, Melky, Frazier, Lawrie, Abreu. Not great, but potentially servicable. Key here is Abreu. He has to turn it around or the Sox aren't going to have a decent offense. Lineup turnover. CF, DH, C. Those are the 3 biggest holes. They need to be filled with quality, not afterthoughts. Guys who are BETTER than the 6 keepers. To conclude: when you are 3 good players and a new manager from having a contending team, it's not time to throw in the towel and start over. Better to go for it. If you miss, it won't have really cost you anything. Nice post. I agree with a lot of it. The Sox are in a lot of ways, stuck. I don't think Sale and Quintana's trade value drops at all from this summer to next. The core of the Sox offense and pitching is still intact in 2017. If there is ever a year to tear down, it'd be next year if things fail again. As you said, you could trade Melky, Frazier and Lawrie now, but are you going to get much that improves the Sox future? Nothing too exciting, would be my guess. You can trade them next July if you suck again. I do think it may be in the Sox best interest to just hold tight and do what they've been doing the past few years. Is it a broken record? Ya, totally - but again, they're probably not going to get any more value out of Sale and/or Q now than they are next July, so why not try one more time before the core gets broken down after 2017? Sign Carlos Gomez to man center next year - maybe you can get him on an incentive laden one year deal and hope he goes bonkers. Go sign Jason Castro to a 1 year deal to get another bat from the left side, and hope that Collins will be ready in 2018. Resign a Morneau or something inexpensive to DH most of the time (Steve Pearce, Napoli, Alvarex, Beltra, Joyce, Smith, Morrisson, Moss, Lind, Teixera - there are options). Nothing there will be overly expensive and won't have future commitments. After 2017, the Sox will have very little on the books. If they suck again next year, that would be the more logical time to firesale everything and start over. With the core they have now, there is a still a chance to compete next year if you don't go out and trade your two aces. All that said - I get it if the Sox decide to move on. They've tried this same strategy for years, to no avail. I get it. It just seems to me the timing works much better next year, and its not like Sox best trade assets are devaluing over that time (barring injuries, of course).