Dunt

QUOTE (Username @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 12:39 PM) You guys are being pretty pessimistic, Jay Bruce is a much worse player and fetched a good prospect. Frazier is likely to get a QO even if he plays around the same level. That alone is worth a solid prospect. Seriously. You guys are acting like he is a bum. I know he didn't have a 4 win season, but he's still incredibly valuable to a team in need. If they didn't get a good offer for him, then just offer him the QO and get the pick. No brainer.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 09:00 AM) Avisail Garcia non-tendered Hahn made it sound like he is sticking around next year

I think Sale and Jones go to Boston for a massive package

Figured we should get this started in light of some of the comments today. Hopefully we can contain this discussion to one thread until some trades start happening. Some quotes from today: I agree White Sox are moving toward a rebuild. And I think we are talking a full rebuild if it’s executed https://twitter.com/scottmerkin/status/796104048864874497 Wh Sox on a new path to sustainable player control and success."I feel the approach now is focusing on longer term benefits"said Rick Hahn https://twitter.com/MLBBruceLevine/status/796103523830071297 Can't say definitively, bc Rick Hahn qualified everything w/ "regardless of which direction" taken -- but all signs say #WhiteSox will sell. https://twitter.com/CSNHayes/status/796086924121227265 Bruce is on his own planet, but I think Merk and Hayes know the front office pretty well at this point.

How is Rymer supposed to be with the glove? I could definitely see him starting in LF next season if this is a full rebuild

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 04:17 PM) As much as I dislike Boston, they're the team we need to pony up. I can see the Yankees even coming for Sale. Loaded up on talent and Sherman hinted as much, at the trade deadline. Dont think it makes much sense for the Yankees to give up prospects for Sale. They have an incredibly deep farm system now and no money on the books by 2018, they are in great shape.

Top 10 are as follows: 1.) Zack Collins 2.) Zack Burdi 3.) Carson Fulmer 4.) Spencer Adams 5.) Alec Hansen 6.) Jordan Stephens 7.) Trey Michalczewski 8.) Jameson Fisher 9.) Alex Call 10.) Jake Peter Pretty discouraging that 1/2 of our top 10 list comes from the 2016 draft. Seems like the time is ripe to sell and load the farm system.

QUOTE (beautox @ Nov 3, 2016 -> 09:27 PM) Beautox’s Offseason Plan Arbitration-eligible (with projected salaries from MLBTR): Todd Frazier, $13.5M - Tender Brett Lawrie, $5.1M - Tender Avisail Garcia, $3.5M - Non-Tender Miguel Gonzalez, $2.6M - Tender Dan Jennings, $1.2M - Tender J.B. Shuck, $1M - Non-Tender Jake Petricka, $900K - Tender Zach Putnam, $900K - Tender Daniel Webb, $600K - Non-Tender Explain the toughest calls if necessary: Pretty straight forward across the board Contract options (pick up or buy out) Matt Albers: $3M for 2017 or a $250,000 buyout - Buyout Impending free agents (re-sign, let go or qualifying offer) Austin Jackson: Made $5 million in 2016. - Let Go Alex Avila: Made $2.5 million in 2016. - Let Go Justin Morneau: Made $1 million in 2016, although he signed during the season. - Re-Sign for 2.5 million. Free agents Sign a number of project pitchers like CJ Wilson, Jarrod Parker, Doug Fister and others to suppress the future rotation’s arbitration eligibility. Sign someone like Mark Teixeira as a nice veteran presence and possible player to be flipped at the deadline in a similar fashion as Carlos Beltran last deadline. Trade I'll be using The Point of Pittsburgh as a soft guide to surplus value of prospects for this exercise. Chris Sale to Boston for OF Andrew Benintendi, 3B Rafael Devers, LHP Jason Groome & C/LF Blake Swihart. Sales surplus value is near 150 million and going by the point of Pittsburgh's mlb prospect surplus values, this deal on Boston’s end comes in around 165 million while not taking into account Swihart’s value and the premium placed on the free agent market since it is a seller’s market this offseason. Jose Quintana to Houston for SS/3B/2B Alex Bregman, RHP Francis Martes, RHP David Paulino & OF Teoscar Hernandez. It has been said this offseason Houston is willing to move Bregman for a top of the line starter and Quintana fits the bill. Jose’s surplus value comes in right around 130m, this package without factoring in Hernandez’s value comes in at about 120 so its a bit light in comparison to the Sale package so there could be an additional piece added. Jose Abreu to Texas for LHP Yohander Mendez, 3B/1B/LF Joey Gallo, OF Leody Taveras. The rangers have holes with their starting pitching, first base and center field, this trade was a bit of a challenge to properly value. I see Aberu’s value being somewhere near 40 million while Joey Gallo’s value continues to plummet in a similar fashion to Mike Olt. Yohander looks to be a mid to back of the rotation starter and Taveras offers a lot of upside but will take a bit of time to develop in the minors. Todd Frazier, Nate Jones & Brett Lawrie to Los Angeles for 1B/OF Cody Bellinger, 2B/C Austin Barnes & SS Gavin Lux. I think the dodgers pass on re-signing Turner and Utley and will need an additional arm out of the pen to back up Jansen or Chapman or whomever they sign this offseason. Bellinger doesn’t have a path in LA for the foreseeable future with Adrian locked up. Barnes hasn’t delivered on any of his promise yet and will be 27 on opening day and Lux is a prospect the white sox heavily scouted during the ‘16 draft. Frazier offers both surplus value and a likely draft pick after ‘17. Jones is an asset that should provide anywhere from 28-40m in surplus value alone during the life of his contract and Lawrie gives them a second basemen with youth and some upside with a slim chance of getting a draft pick in ‘17. If the dodgers go this route and QO Turner and Jansen while signing Chapman and trading for Frazier that affords them two additional draft picks in the ‘17 draft. David Robertson to San Francisco for OF Bryan Reynolds and LHP Steven Okert. Even with his knee being cleaned out before the start of the season relief pitching will be at a premium after the world series demonstrations of Chicago and Cleveland. Robertson has a little bit of surplus value and is likely being paid nearly what he is worth. Reynolds was the Giants first round draft pick from vanderbilt and a switch hitter another prospect that would be in the mold of the direction of "baseball players" as seen by drafting Collins, Fisher and Call. Okert looks to be a middle reliever that can handle both righties and lefties Melky Cabrera and Miguel Gonzalez to Toronto for RHP Sean Reid-Foley and LHP Angel Perdomo. Depending on what you think 1 WAR will cost this offseason this is a very close and "fair" trade; Reid-Foley has a surplus value of 15.6m and Gonzalez’s value will likely be around 14M. There is no way the jays QO Saunders for 17.2m, Melky is likely being paid what he will produce for ‘17 and there is a slim chance they could extend him a QO next year, same applies for Gonzalez. There is familiarity with Melky within the organization and Gonzalez has had success in the East previously with the O’s. Reid-Foley is a classic white sox pitching target - "Reid-Foley's delivery and arm action may not be picturesque, but he has the physical strength and athleticism to repeat both." Perdomo is a solid looking lottery ticket, both of these arms haven’t moved beyond high A. Summary The only pieces of the current 25 man roster that will likely be around for the next White Sox window are Carlos Rodon, Adam Eaton and Tim Anderson, by having a fire sale in this fashion the farm system now has waves of talent to infuse as not all prospects will pan out. The remaining pen arms that are solid: Petricka, Putman and Jennings can be moved at the deadline with the place holding rotation members and veteran bats provided they perform, if not they served their purpose of mentoring the future core while ideally getting an additional year of control out of them by keeping them down on the farm. This team will likely have a top 5 draft pick in ‘18 and a top 10 pick in ‘19. Here is what the organization’s depth chart would like at the start of ‘17 Here is what the 25 man roster would look like going into mid ‘18 f*** man, beautifully laid out post! How did you do the custom depth chart? That is very cool.

Sox have no one to blame but themselves for their position. We have an awful owner and an awful front office. Cubs winning or not, this franchise is a f***ing trainwreck.

Dont know how I missed this thread, love this pick up. Even if he ends up being a dud, you take a chance on talent like his. Only problem is I believe he needs to be on the 25 man at the start of the season to be kept.

Had no idea we claimed Liriano lol

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 26, 2016 -> 07:34 AM) Kluber is really the only starting pitcher for Cleveland that can do what he did last night. The rest of the rotation is meh right now. Gonna be a bullpen battle for two games and the Cubs have the advantage with how their lineup works pitchers. Still think cubs in five. Josh Tomlin has been absolutely awesome this postseason, I wouldnt discount what hes been able to do

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Oct 20, 2016 -> 10:30 AM) Am I that delusional as I watch these playoffs to think the White Sox are not that far off? I don't see stacked lineups and deep rotations. Hell the Dodgers only have two starting pitchers and one of them is the definition of lightening in a bottle. The Giants offense was abysmal and the Dodgers are not much better. I've been definitely thinking the same. If you look at who made the playoffs this year, who is a shoe in to make it again next year? Red Sox? Probably, deep system and tons of talent under control Indians? They'll be tough with Carrasco, Brantley, Salazar, and Gomes back Rangers? Would be lucky to be a .500 team next year, window is closing Blue Jays? Bautista and Encarnacion are FAs, they'll take a step back Orioles? Their window is almost shut Houston will probably be pretty good next year, Detroit is cutting money, Royals are cutting money and probably trading Davis, Mariners do anything for you? Angels suck... Who says the Sox couldn't be a playoff team with a few smart moves?

Lechich another 2 scoreless tonight

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 11:15 PM) Deadpool has been pretty quiet the past 2 games. What gives?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 11:30 AM) The sad thing is that off of the top of my head, that is a probably a pretty nice improvement over what we put out there in CF all last year. And that is without factoring in anything on the defensive side of things. Even if he hits at his worst, JBJ would provide the Sox with a ton of improvement in CF. We are talking wins worth of improvement. If he hits even normal or better than normal? 5 wins? 6 wins? Ya, even if he puts up at ~.720 OPS, that's still about a 5 win replacement. Having him and Eaton in the same OF makes that OF defense damn near elite.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 09:21 AM) For me, I want Benintendi because I think he's going to be a star. I also doubt that Boston trades Moncada because of what they've invested in him. What I'd love in return: OF Benintendi, 3B Devers, LHP Groome, RHP Kopech, C Swihart. What I would take: OF Benintendi, 3B Devers, OF Basabi, C Swihart, LHP Rodriguez, and C Swihart. Either of those I would do. I would be happy with either of those packages. Benintendi is more appealing to me than Bradley and I think Devers is a must because you probably let Frazier walk.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 05:25 PM) That's the whole point with me. If you are rebuilding, why are you trading for a guy who will be 27 next season? Go young with the rebuild, don't half ass it like we've been doing with the "retooling". I really don't think they rebuild. I am thinking they do end up dealing Sale, but instead of rebuilding, it's sort of a retooling. Move Sale and get JBJ, Devers, Kopech, and Rodriguez and then grab someone who can play LF and move Melky to DH. If they did something like that, next year could be really interesting: Eaton RF JBJ CF Abreu 1B Cespedes LF Melky DH Frazier 3B Saladino/Lawrie 2B Avila? C Anderson SS Quintana L Gonzalez R Rodon L Rodriguez R Fulmer R

Blurb from Eric Longenhagen's Fall League Superlatives article: White Sox LHP Louie Lechich, a converted outfielder, has only been pitching in games since July 28th and is already flashing a plus changeup…

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 03:26 PM) Why does everyone think JBJ is overrated? I think it's a track record thing. He has about 800 ABs over the last 2 seasons now of about an .834 OPS though, so I don't think he's all that overrated. Major downsides of a JBJ trade are control and age.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 07:54 AM) A friend of mine who lives downstate is a big Cardinals fan. He told me over the weekend that the Cardinals have serious interest in Adam Eaton. I don't know if the White Sox want to trade Eaton and I don't know if the Cardinals have any players we would want in return. They want a 6 fWAR RF with 5 more years of cheap control? No way! Let's see, we will take Reyes, Bader, Perez, Hudson, and Weaver.

Does anyone believe that this actually points to the Sox originally wanting Robin back? I thought it was bulls*** originally, but no one lost their jobs on this staff. That's scary.

It's amazing that this organizational seemingly makes the wrong choice at every turn. Common sense does not exist on the south side.

QUOTE (whitesoxjr27 @ Oct 13, 2016 -> 09:12 AM) I am in the same camp as you. Let them win and maybe cubs fans will finally STFU about it. Good one.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 13, 2016 -> 08:24 AM) Danny Hayes (who we were just discussing) hit a home run and added another walk yesterday. Zack Collins had two walks and a K. Trey Michalczewski had an ugly game - 0-4, 3 K. Brian Clark pitched 2 scoreless with 3 K. So Clark probably ends up being the second lefty out of the pen this season I imagine? Seems like he has earned the opportunity.