Dunt

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 10:13 AM) This is loose conjecture and my own analysis. Take it for what you want. I really can't elaborate on more than I am saying. I don't think the Sox will trade Sale. I am not ruling it out, but I'd be pretty much shocked. I don't seem them moving Frazier/Melky/Lawrie but that's more of a guess. The guys that I expect them to have deep conversations about are Quintana/Robertson/Duke. Dodgers, Rangers and Red Sox are the teams to watch. I think the Sox think if they can get a return from Quintana/Robertson that is largely comprised of close to MLB ready talent, then they will make the leap. Shields could be moved obviously but I don't have any reason to think anything specific. Essentially, if they move Q/Robertson/Duke they'll go into the offseason with holes at C/CF/DH and then they'll need a decent starter/reliever as well as some depth adds. They'll have the returns from those guys hopefully filling three of those holes and they'll have boatload of money off the books with LaRoche/Robertson/Q/Jackson/Latos/Rollins/Avila/Navarro leaving. Before arb raises, that's almost 50M off the books (rough mental math). I think you are pretty spot on here, especially if you've been reading between the lines of everything that has been said over the last 24-48 hrs. A lot of reassurances Sale isn't going anywhere, but you haven't really heard a thing about Q. I think Robertson and Duke leaving are no brainers, you have no use for them and can get valuable pieces back.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 06:35 AM) Hanley just said that Schwarber, Baez, and Almora is too much for Sale. Then i turned it off Heard that too. Can't stand listening to the Score anymore, all the talking heads there have gotten ridiculous.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 08:23 PM) The Mets make sense for Lawrie. That Neil Walker guy is pretty good

If the White Sox try another half assed retooling effort, will that honestly bring anyone out to the ballpark next year? We already talk about the inability to rebuild because attendance wouldnt support it, but I see no way the fanbase buys into next season without a heavy free agent investment or an influx of prospects coming in.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 11:56 AM) There are three untouchables in a full scale fire sale. Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer. Sale could bring back an unprecedented haul. Q should bring back something slightly less than the Shelby Miller debacle. Gonzalez and Shields could probably bring in some decent fliers. Abreu's name would probably carry some value. Frazier's average is low, but he's producing runs. Bring some value. Eaton should bring some good value back. Melky should bring a decent prospect in. Robertson/Duke/Jones/Jennings can all bring in a decent prospect. Lawrie might. Just know, everyone here will be in misery for at least 3 years, regardless of return. It's probably the wise move at this point but still. Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer (now in the rotation) and Saladino would be the only watchable parts of it. You'd have to hope that the 2016 draft class are all fast risers to minimize the misery. Why would Q bring back less than Shelby f***ing Miller? Not only has Q provided 10 wins more over the last 4 years (since they both became full-time starters), but Miller has less control. It would be asinine to accept anything close to that deal. Again, the model for a Q trade is the Cole Hamels trade. 3 top 100 prospects and major league pieces. Anything less is a joke offer.

Tough to say, there are a lot of positive and negatives to weigh. Sale has been the better pitcher throughout his career, but Quintana has an extra year of control and a cleaner health bill. I think it all comes down to what you are offered or either and whichever you get closest to market value for, you move. I think either should bring 2-3 legit pieces for the future.

Just so everyone has a clear idea of the value of Quintana, Cole Hamels and Jake Diekman were traded last year for 3 top 100 prospects (Thompson, Williams, and Alfaro), a MLB starting pitcher (Harrison), and a solid young MLB starter (Eickhoff). Since Q has become a full-time starter, he's been worth 2 more fWAR than Hamels and would have an extra years worth of control. That is the baseline for a Q trade. If you want to talk Sale, better be ready to push all your chips into the center of the table. Neither should be or will be cheap and the Sox are in no rush to get rid of either.

Miguel Gonzalez now 4 for 4 in QS in July

Gotta hand it to Miguel Gonzalez and James Shields these last couple of weeks. They might not have the overpowering stuff, but they are getting it down game in, game out.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 03:52 PM) IMO, Mets aren't going to make the postseason. Their offense has collapsed the last few months and their pitching staff is so beat up. Oh well, thanks for 2015 I think the Pirates make a run to get in. They have the easiest SOS the rest of the way.

Abreu needs to sit for a day or two. Can Morneau play the field or is he strictly a DH now?

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA TODDFATHER!

Says JR wants to do "whatever it takes" and then says there may not be room in the budget for "el primo free agents". Lol.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 01:20 PM) He just got to Kanny. Let's not Courtney Hawkins this guy. Let him bash there the rest of the year, unless some slot opens up in W-S and they really need a player anyway. That's the route I would be most interested in them pursuing, but you never know with this organization. He will be 22 for all of next season, so I dont think leaving him in Kanny this year and starting him in WS next year is a bad idea. He'd still be pretty age appropriate for the level.

Starting to think about this deadline and think the Sox actually have some pieces that could be useful for other teams that won't really ruin the long term picture. Anyone think that the Miguel Gonzalez and Zach Duke could fetch something useful for the Sox? In Duke, you have a lefty with another year of control that is quietly having an incredible year: 2.41 FIP, 2.88 xFIP, 10.58 K/9, 3.34 BB/9, 1.0 fWAR. Gonzalez probably doesnt net you the same type of return, but with Fulmer going to the rotation next season, you have an extra SP in a market that's incredibly thin. He's a sneaky buy option for a team that could be looking for a middle/ed of the rotation reliable arm. So far he's accrued a 4.06 FIP and 1.2 fWAR. I think the Sox would be smart to try moving them and seeing if they bring anything useful back.

There is no way they'd move Call to WS if he keeps hitting like this...right?

QUOTE (Special K @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 08:43 AM) 4th place in the division, 9 games back of 1st, under .500, and a few days away from August... looking at this objectively, this team is not going anywhere. keep the core and sell pieces like Robertson, Gonzalez (might as well and try and sell high), Shields (if possible), and listen-in on Q for major league ready position players... I was thinking about that this morning. With how thin the pitching market is, why not try flipping Gonzalez or Shields? You might actually get a decent piece back and both have atleast another year of control. Not sure how good the piece would be, but Fulmer will be in the rotation next year and there is going to be too many pitchers.

Avi f***ing sucks

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 03:54 PM) That might be true, however look at this roster. Just take a giant step back and lose all Sox ties to it. Then ask this question - can this team win a WS? For you to answer yes to that question, then you keep going and try to acquire pieces. If no, then you try retool. Here's the first thing - although we are all fans and love to dream, trading something like Sale during the season isn't happening. He just won't be the first player moved, they lose all leverage on all other players like this. You move someone like a Robertson when you have internal answers in Fulmer and Burdi and Jones in the pipeline. That's the smart move. But take that line away for a second - the FO sees this as such: Rodon should take a step forward next year (though honestly I was expecting that this year too). Shields should be very serviceable as 4/5. Now you have a solid staff lined up to throw 200IP from 1-5 (just pluggin in Miguel Gonzalez for kicks next year). With that pitching staff you shouldn't have to rely so much on your bullpen, but even at that, you should have Robertson, Jones, etc. next year. Some of the arms that were injured and then throw in Burdi. Plug maybe a decent FA. You move to the offense. One can make a case that around the infield diamond we are fine next year. We are fine in Lf/RF. We are not fine at DH. We are not fine at C. We are not fine at CF. Not saying its possible - but let's say somehow you acquire a Dexter Fowler, Ian Desmond (should have had him this year except were being giant morons), Colby Rasmus or Carlos Gomez (on the cheap, personally don't like him at all) At Catcher I'm not plugging in anybody - its a terrible position with not much talent out there except LuCroy. Somebody else has a better minors system than us to get him. At DH get me a Carlos Beltran for a year, or something. Or maybe you make some trades giving up decent trade chips, but ones you can afford to knowing if it fails, that you are rebuilding anyways, so who cares. Spencer Adams, or a decent trade chip to get someone like a Volgbach from the Cubs. What I'm saying is you spend money or trade and you can have a lineup that is decent, pitching that is good and defense that is above average. If that team can get you to the playoffs -- hten you have Sale and Q to lead you. At that point WS is possible. Which is why the FO will keep plugging until the tear down next year if they don't produce. Think of that lineup Fowler Eaton Abreu Beltran Melky Frazier Anderson Lawrie Avila Not too shabby. Beltran could probably be overpaid at a 1yr deal with a ok buyout. or 2 years at the most. Fowler/Desmond would probably take 4/60, but is tradable in a tear down. So you really aren't adding much risk. If they decide that they are keeping this intact and retooling for next year. I want to see Edwin Encarncion, Ian Desmond, and Jason Castro brought in. Bring Collins and Engel up as soon as the bats look like they can play at the major league level.

I would absolutely trade Sale to the Pirates for a haul of Meadows, Glasnow, and Newman.

Finished the day 2-4 w/ a BB

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 12:07 PM) Your view of Dunn is clouded by his time in Chicago. If Gallo draws Dunn comparison, that's a compliment. Adam Dunn was a combined 18 win player in Cincinnati. I'm not sure he does, but I'd rather have a cost-controlled poor-man's version of Dunn than the bloated contract we had with the real Adam Dunn. Take Robertson off the table. I would do Quintana for both and a couple of prospects in a heartbeat. This.

Winston Salem already under way, up 4-3. Collins w/ a BB in first AB. http://www.milb.com/scoreboard/index.jsp?c...mp;ymd=20160719

"Guys, it's just one of those things"

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 09:17 AM) Avila and Jackson made the playoffs four consective seasons. Shields in 2008 and 2014...in the World Series. Robertson with the Yankees when he could throw 96-98. Cabrera with the Giants. A simple 2 second search could tell you that that Robertson has never once in his career averaged 96-98. The highest he has ever averaged on his fastball was 93.1 mph in 2011.