SCCWS

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 3, 2015 -> 01:40 PM) There is no chance of Swihart being dealt unless it is for a TOR guy and Quintana is not that guy. Thats been the main hold up in a Hamels deal. I think you could probably get someone like Henry Owens whose stock is down a bit, Marrero or Cecchini, JBJ and then a couple low level lottery ticket guys. I would try to expand the trade to include a swap of Cabrera for Naploli and his contract that will expire at the end of the season. Saw a roundtable earlier in the wekk with 4 Boston media members and they all felt Swihart is odd man out when Vazquez returns. Boston thinks they found their TOR guy in Rodriguez who has been dominating since put in rotation. So Q is certainly a #2 and they still have Buchholz and their stud in AAA in Johnson. Only problem is Q is a lefty and so are their two young pitchers. Boston would not want a Cabrera for Napoli. Napoli is a 1st baseman and Melky doesn't play first. Now Boston has this great outfielder named DeAza who they are raving about. Maybe Melky for him.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 3, 2015 -> 09:43 AM) Also if they wanted cost-controlled pitchers, why in the world would they sign Porcello to a 100Million deal? I guess you could say it's cost controlled - just a high cost. Red Sox zig-zagged....that usually ends up in disaster. Sox have done that more than a few times. I doubt Red Sox want to deal any real prospects. They want cost controlled pitchers in return for some of their veterans and declining prospects like Cecchini and Bradley Jr (he's worth a flyer). I read that even their offers for Hamels when they were still in it consisted of mainly Major League guys. Buckholz is a good trade piece for them; they have little after that except for the bullpen. Boston will always be looking to trade prospects. Once Vazquez comes back they have 3 catchers on their ML roster. Media seems to think Swihart will be the one to go. Cecchini is boxed out w Sandoval but he is having a bad year at AAA. I agree Bradley is worth a flyer as he was tearing up AAA before being recalled.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 3, 2015 -> 01:53 AM) I would completely agree with you except for one thing, which is why I see no reason to "blow this up" like many are saying. What I want to see out of the roster on a day-in and day-out basis, namely, solid, fundamental defense and situational hitting, is just nowhere close to occurring. I really don't care one way or another whether we win 80 games or 70 games this season. All I am asking is that this roster start showing signs of playing the kind of ball moving forward where with some additional tweaks and some development by the younger players, one can see scenarios where they compete for the division in the next 2-3 years. Unfortunately, we're seeing a bunch of sloppy bulls*** which basically negates the talent on our roster because we are giving away runs and outs on a daily basis with no sign of any progress being made whatsoever. For me, it's not about wins and losses; it's about the way we are playing which leads me to the same consistent conclusion. The coaching staff simply has to go. I agree the coaching staff has to go. But you ignore the fact that the GM, whoever made the decision, looked at the roster over the winter and knew avi was below average ib RF and yet signed Melky for left. They knew Abreu's ability at 1st and decided Johnson should be heir apparent at 2nd??? The coaching staff is to blame for a team that does not perform fundamentals. The FO is to blame for building a roster loaded w players who are average or below defensively.

Swihart and Bradley Jr. I would try and add a reliever or minor league pitcher if they thow in Cecchini. No Holt or Betts please.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 03:43 PM) not to get all political, but it's so strange to see how much rain the rest of the country is getting meanwhile people are digging up their lawns here in socal because of the drought. If we can build an oil pipeline, can't we build a water one too? Okay, back to baseball. Why couldn't they have taken all the snow up north and moved it to drought areas.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 11:22 AM) Remember when RV was such a breath of fresh air in his first season? How all the extra infield practice made a fundamentally sound team? What happened? Did he get worse on purpose? Or was he really the cause of the improvement in the first place? If not, how can we be so sure he's the problem now? FWIW--I heard an interesting comment two years ago during a Boston/White Sox game in Boston. The White Sox were having a bad game defensively. Jerry Remy, the Boston color man, said the White Sox do very limited infield work for a road team before a game. He thought they needed to change that watching them fumble around that day.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 12:34 PM) I would sit down with Cooper and go over Zimmer/Manaea/Finnegan. Choose one. Next, Mondesi, Jr. Finally, Dyson or Bubba Starling...leaning towards Dyson, would try for both. Wouldn't really want Colon as we already have seemingly five potential utility infielders. Or Duffy and Mondesi, Jr., for Quintana. Change of scenery deal for both pitchers. Coop can fix him, etc. I'm just not sure with Odorizzi and now Montgomery in Seattle they'll so easily part with more young pitching prospects. We'll see. I don't like a package that highlights Mondesi for Q. The Sox need to get 1 prime position player back either a C-SS-CF. Mondesi is KC's number 1 prospect but he is average in AA. So we are trading to hope he plays well in AAA next year. I think the Sox have to get a AAA or ML player who is putting up solid numbers as the first piece in a package. Now I would take him for Shark but I doubt KC does it.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 01:30 AM) At the game. I seriously had no hope to score a run the whole game. I knew in the 2nd inning when we had bases loaded and 0 outs with Flowers and Sanchez up we wouldn't score. Such a s***ty feeling. Luckily Flowers ran into a home run to win the game! Another game winning RBI for Flowers. No wonder Sale insists he be the catcher when he pitches. Sale has a higher BA than Sanchez...........................

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 12:11 PM) Should of hired Dave ******* Martinez in the first place. Now he's with the Cubs. Ugh. Why??? If Tampa Bay had him in house and passed like several other teams did, why would we go for him??? Certainly a better choice than RV but there must be a reason TB did not choose him.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 01:03 AM) The 2012 team featured: A career year for Pierzynski. 27 home runs, .827 OPS The final year of vintage Konerko. .857 OPS The final year of excellent Rios, .850 OPS DeAza's best full season, 2.5 WAR an in-season trade for YOUK!, .771 OPS in 80 games w/ White Sox Tank Viciedo's best season, 1.0 WAR Most improved Adam Dunn, 41 HR .800 OPS NONE of those players ever reached those heights again. Most not even close, 4 are not playing major league baseball now. You also got standard issue, non-crater seasons from Alexei and Gordon, something Alexei might not be capable of anymore. As Hahn has stated many times, they knew they'd have to shift away from that old core and rebuild at some point soon. And the team showed them when the next year. My guess it will turn out like Beckham's hot streak, but De Aza is tearing up in Boston both w bat and glove.

QUOTE (Charlie Haeger's Knuckles @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 08:15 PM) I am surprised there hasn't been a "....if AJ was on the team...." thread yet. Catchers make good managers.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 06:44 PM) We gave up Phegley (along with Semien, Bassit, Ravelo) for Shark. And Phegley has been better than every White Sox position player including Abreu (according to Fangraphs). But now you are getting a 2 month rental. That lowers the value considerably. Besides his hitting, last I saw Phegley had the 2nd best % in throwing out base-stealers in AL. How ironic the Sox desperately need a catcher and they dumped him.

Remember Avi spent 7 years in the minors and had over 2,400 PA. So he may be 24 in age but he spent a lot of time in the minors.

QUOTE (harkness @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 05:11 PM) Hearing that the players "have a high regard for the manager" is usually a sign that the manager is losing. I never hear about players "having a high regard " for... Bill Belicheck, Phil Jackson, Mike K... not even going to spell his name from Duke, Tony Larussa... not saying players don't say anything good about them, but its neither here nor there... I could go on forever but Robin being a nice guy... which he really is a nice guy... means nothing, nor does it matter if the players hold him in high regard. Pretty much when you are losing you better know that the players to blame themselves but also look at the coaches around them and make some conclusions. It's a simple question to answer: What has Robin done to make things better? Hahn tried and failed which is why I don't blame him as much in some respects. KW im on the fence about to fall to the wrong side also. Hahn tried and failed but you don't blame him as much??? Not sure how you are separating the fact that it looks like both Robin and Hahn failed their jobs. Hahn loaded the roster with players w/o any regard for defense. His plan was to start the season w Flowers, Johnson, Avi, Gillaspie, Abreu and Melky????That is 6 below average defenders and I guess he didn't think that Alexei may have been slipping. Did he think Robin was going to take them and turn them into better fielders??? Hahn gave Robin garbage and he found a way to make it even worse.

Heard last night on a Boston Roundtable with some of their media that Swihart will probably be the young catcher they offer for starting pitching in offseason. I would do Q for Swihart, Bradley Jr. + a lower prospect. But I am concerned getting Bradley could be a problem if he hits in Boston now that he got called up.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 02:03 AM) Some interesting thoughts in here. If most every player managed some semblance of normal to good, this team could have contended. Obviously that didn't happen with most of the position players cratering, Shark's struggles, Danks being Danks. Good news is that the pitching is pretty much set for the foreseeable years (unless there's a rash of injuries) with Erik Johnson and Fulmer likely moving into the rotation within the next year, plus guys like Nate Jones, Crain, Montas and Danish who'll filter into the bullpen or potentially rotation if things break well. If we end up with a surplus of rotation guys a couple of years from now, flip one (maybe Quintana) for a position in need. I think we can assume Abreu, Eaton, Avi, and Melky are here next year. You'd hope you could get some approximation of an average second baseman out of Micah, Sanchez, or Saladino. I'd like to see them shop LaRoche in July. Should be able to get something worthwhile with his year and a half remaining. Open up the DH spot and have Avi, Melky, Abreu cycle through there. Bring up Trayce, play him around the outfield and see if we have anything there. Obviously move Shark. Hopefully get a young starting catcher or 3B and plug him in for the rest of the season. Dump Alexei, Bonifacio to whoever you can. In the offseason there will be money to spend filling maybe a couple of black holes (3B or SS). In 2017 there's more money available with Danks gone and hopefully Tim Anderson is ready. By then we'll know whether or not Avi is our right fielder and if anyone is our second baseman. Doubt you get a catcher for Shark. I think you get a solid prospect like an OF or 2B. Q would bring a Catcher+ in offseason.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 08:20 PM) I'm sorry but these are grown men playing baseball and getting a hell of alot of money then most of us will ever see and there should be no excuses. They get to play a game that alot of kids dream to play in their lives. I'm sure we all aren't fully happy with our jobs or bosses but we put our big boy pants and go to work cause we need a paycheck and I'm sure anyone one of us would like to take their place in a heart beat. It is not the same. As you state, we need a paycheck. Most of them will get one regardless of how they perform. If you have a few bad months, you probably won't survive in your job. Many of them since the age of 22 or so have been doing very well financially. So it is a very different lifestyle than the average person has. Then again, when we screw up at work, it hopefully does not get the same publicity as when they screw up. Imagine if you screw up at work tomorrow and your wife and kids get berated by the neighbors in your driveway on Tuesday.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 06:02 PM) Rather than the question being asked, I'd be more interested to know how all players fare upon switching from one league to the other. Not interested in what it kinda sorta seems like players do, but rather actual data on the topic. A little dated( 2011) but it shows both hitters and pitchers https://www.fanduel.com/insider/2011/08/02/...s-for-pitchers/

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 06:20 PM) just like Sale did last yr. for those who want to say, this is but 1 game. this is the problem that has been finally magnified for all to see. Hopefully the object is to showcase Shark and get his value up.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 03:43 PM) WHERE IS PUTNAM!!??! On a slow bus to Charlotte????

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 12:15 PM) The quick fix was last off season as Sox management saw that as a way to get back into contention right away. It has not worked well yet but it still might with some more tweaks. Any rebound will be more than trading one player or tearing this team apart, whichever is your pleasure. I think we keep most of what we have and fine tune. We have talent and it is proven talent for the most part. Look at 2015 as an anomaly so far. I think it is an anomaly as well. There is no reason in 2016 this team cannot get back to the 2014 success they achieved..........................

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 01:40 PM) Mark Cuban or Donald Trump? Which circus act do you prefer? We have a good and committed ownership Actually, with the change in relations with Cuba, I can foresee the Havana White Sox on the horizon. Attendance would be great and White Sox could have an advantage in signing Cuban born players. Alexei could be a player manager and Bill Lee could be the GM. Jerry are you listening????

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 09:19 AM) I really think this team can be legit contents by 2017, but it will take some bold moves between now and then. On the pitching side, sign Shark to a 5 year/$90M extension, trade Quintana & Putnam at the trade deadline (target two high-end hitting prospects for Q and the BPA for Zach), move Danks to the bullpen, & call-up Erik Johnson. Give one of Drabek, Guerra, & Beck an extended look the rest of the way. If you don't like what you see from those guys, then sign a reclamation project in the offseason. Either way, plan on Fulmer taking the #5 spot by 2017. On the offensive side, trade Alexei & LaRoche at the deadline for whatever you can get. Give playing time to Sanchez at SS, Micah Johnson at 2B, Garcia and/or Melky at DH, & Trayce Thompson in RF. For this example, assume you can get Schwarber & Baez for Quintana & Putnam. These guys would start at C & 3B the rest of the way. In the offseason, trade Garcia for prospects and open up the DH spot for Schwarber. Do whatever it takes to acquire the best available catching prospect that is major league ready. In this example, I'll assume that guy is Kevin Plawecki from the Mets. Let Sanchez, Saladino, or a free agent stop-gap hold down SS for 2016, but assume Anderson is ready by opening day 2017. Give Thompson a legit shot in RF in 2016. If he fails, sign or trade for a RF (Jay Bruce a potential option). 2017 Roster #1: Sale #2: Shark #3: Rodon #4: Johnson #5: Fulmer CL: Robertson SU: Jones SU: Duke MR: Webb MR: Phillips MR: Petricka LR: Beck 1. Eaton, CF 2. Johnson, 2B 3. Abreu, 1B 4. Schwarber, DH 5. Cabrera, LF 6. Baez, 3B 7. Thompson, RF 8. Plawecki, C 9. Anderson, SS Lineup too right-handed and there still would be some defensive concerns, but offensively it would have a lot of potential if Melky bounces back. Regardless, the pitching staff would have a chance of being very special. On top of that, the roster is very young and there would be money to spend to patch holes. While I think this particular scenario is unlikely (don't see us trading with the Cubs), I think something similar can be done if we extend Shark & capitalize on Quintana's value. Good post. But Q is too valuable an asset to trade at the deadline. You can explore it but I think you get more value trading him in offseason where there will be more suitors. There is no way I trade Q for a Schwarber/Baez type package. Worse you want to project Schwarber as a DH. You have to get a Catcher or SS + 1 or 2 very high prospects who are ML ready for a top 20 ML pitcher. For example from Boston I want one of the young catchers, Holt and Bradley Jr or Bogaerts and Bradley Jr. You have to walk away w a starter at a prime position ( SS-CF-C) and at least 1 other starter or two very high prospects that may need 1 year. Why would you want Danks in the bullpen??? What role would he play??? If he is your long reliever you are better off w a young player. I think w Danks you either leave him as your #5, trade him for nothing and eat some money, trade him for a prospect and eat more money, or release him and eat all the money and a lot of rolaids.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 27, 2015 -> 06:21 PM) No Danks always a plus. Not really. If the Sox have any hope of trading Danks at the deadline, a few decent starts between now and then would be helpful.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 26, 2015 -> 03:35 PM) Great post. It's results that matter and right now Hahn's grade is D. This team is by far the worst in the division and that's on him after all the deals last offseason. I do trust him though and hope he starts making some more trades and tries to re-do the mess he put the team in. I agree Hahn is absolutely responsible for some of the problems. He acquired Melky knowing that Avi was a below average RF based on last year. He also did nothing fixing 2nd base then promoted Johnson who was a defensive problem there. I don't blame him as much for Alexei and Eaton defensively as they have regressed more than should be expected. I think he did a good job improving the bullpen and the LaRoche and Shark moves are a wash.