TheFutureIsNear

I think this is a lot of hyperbole. Also depends on who you think “shouldn’t” be traded...which for me would be a short list. Are we going to trade for a great player with years of control left? Nope. But a solid starter player shouldn’t be that hard to pull off

Wheeler, Grandal, Calhoun...starting to think that’s the most realistic best case scenario as major signings. Add low cost bull pen arm or 2 and some minor league signings at SP and RH power bench bat. Payroll around 130ish and I think a chance to win 85 games or so

That’s why I’d be more than happy to let Jose test the market without the QO. If I’m the Sox I politely tell that RBI leader to find another team that is willing to guarantee him more than $30M. If he does we’ll match any reasonable offers, if not 2/28 is still on the table...I find it pretty hard to think of a team that will willing to give Jose that kind of contract, but I could be wrong as well.

The odds of Jose just taking and being happy with the $18M QO next year are WAY higher than someone signing Jose to a multi year deal with a QO attached. I don’t think a reasonable common sense middle ground should be that hard to find with Jose given his very public desire to stay...I’d say 2/28 is more than fair

Little game...you get 15 points to spend for the major signings of the off season, take your pick Cole(12), Strasburg(12), Wheeler(5), Bum(5), Ryu(5), Ordorizzi(3) , Keuchel(3), Pineda(2), Hamels(2), Roark(2) Rendon(12), JDM(5) or Grandal(5) Ozuna(4), Castellanos(4), Moustakas(3), Encarnacion (3), Puig(2), Dickerson(2), Gardner(2) Will Smith(4), Will Harris(2), Daniel Hudson(2), Betances(2)

Yes, Max Scherzer and Patrick Corbin had nothing to do with the Nats winning the World Series and were cheap signings. Good thing they didn’t “overspend”

Free Agency IS overspending. If you think they are going to build a serious contender with mostly home grown talent you’re delusional. The Sox will need to add significant impact players from outside the organization or they wont be able to compete. Same with payroll, if they aren’t willing to get at least close to $150M eventually (doesn’t have to be all this year necessarily) we all might as well give up.

Are you in Jerry’s will or something? The team has a pathetically low payroll already and you’re worried about overspending? Why? Overspending in free agency is a deal with the devil you pretty much have to make. Will it backfire sometimes? Of course. But do we have a shot in hell of putting a WS roster on the field without making at least a couple big splash signings? Extremely unlikely

Hopefully the Sox told him to test the market before handing out a dumb multi year offer...most likely not though

Never said we shouldn’t sign wheeler...was more a comment toward the article you posted suggesting that Wheeler could break out into the next Cole. Just pointing out that Wheeler is already a few months older and Cole really showed his elite ability back in 2015. Wheeler has been very good, but hasn’t shown that truly elite ability yet and is already 29, doubt it’s happening but crazier things have happened. But I agree that he’s a really good #3 that you hope gives you #2 production more often than not and that he’d be a great signing for us.

A little odd to think that Wheeler is going to develop into Cole when he’s already older...

MUCH crazier things have happened...nothing is off the table when it comes to Sox and developing prospects. No way we should be building a team around future prospects

I guess where we are differing is the fact that you think they can sign either Cole/Strasburg and I’m looking at other ways to improve the team because I don’t think there’s a shot in hell of the Sox getting either guy. Hopefully you are right

Not sure why you are already carving out AB’s for Vaughn though. You can only kick the can down the road for so long. We can worry about the potential problem of having too many hitters in 2020. And sure, getting TOR SP’s is obviously important. But what happens if/when that fails on free agency. The plan is do nothing and hope for the best with what we have in the lineup?

Aside from JDM, what’s your alternative? Is it only great top 5/10 players at their position you’re interested in? Given the Sox roster it’s pretty crazy to me that you would want nothing to do with Moose on a reasonable 2 year deal. Position flex, lefty, power...checks a lot of boxes if you ask me

Kinda agree...if Gio is eligible wouldn’t Moncada also be? Is .235/.315/.400, 217K’s and questionable D much better than a 6.13 ERA? Both had huge breakouts from their 2018, neither really went through anything to earn the title of comeback though.

Fangraphs...I’m not going to pretend to know the difference in the #’s, but if the #’s you are using say Yolmer is > than Ozuna any year other than Yolmers’s 2017 I’m not buying it. If you can’t produce a .700 OPS you can’t be in my lineup everyday. Yolmer is a bench utility guy.

Hyperbole much? All the way around...Yolmer’s best WAR season wasn’t as good as Ozuna’s worst in the past 4 years. Also haven’t seen any love for Ozuna at all...just a few, such as myself, that would like to have Ozuna at fair market value for the next 3 years. He would represent an obvious upgrade. He’s a 2.5 WAR OF’er and under 30. If the comp pick keeps teams away and Ozuna can be had for around 3 years 50M it’s a no brainer in my opinion. However, if it takes more than 3 years and over 16/17M I’m not interested.

Yup, if anything the Sox should take advantage if other teams shy away from players with picks attached...Ozuna being 1 of them. He’s not a guy I want to get in a bidding war over or anything, but if he can be had for something like 3/$50M because no one wants to give up the pick I’d be all for it.

You’re talking about spending $90 million in 1 off season...at some point you have to realize how unrealistic that sounds . If you want to have hope that the payroll will be $160M after next off season that’s 1 thing, but are you really expecting the front off season to put together a World Series competing team in 1 off season?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQJ_xb5fe6eETgj-DCIcJOQI7A94T3anYAHIM7t7YZjU6CVYHNsNsM5BNA_3e0XxoDcRUxqI7XTw5He/pubhtml?gid=1921184410&single=true Edit: I'm not smart enough to figure out how to post the picture of the tab...

Moose, Puig, Odorizzi, 2-3 low risk bull pen arms, backup/3rd catcher Not the sexy off season everyone wants, but that’s the “realistic” off season I see happening. Play Moose at 2B until Madrigal comes up and give Collins an extended look at DH...no idea why Collins at least getting a shot at regular AB’s is seemingly not an option on this board

At that point I just trade him. I think the organization probably knows whether he’s going to be a catcher or not at this point. If he’s not then he needs to get regular AB’s at 1B/DH. He doesn’t have anything left to prove in the minors and will be 25 before the season. I mean, we do need LH hitters and high OBP guys...kinda sounds like Zack Collins. But I know everyone here has much bigger dreams and wouldn’t be happy with that. If they plan to have Madrigal start the year in the minors I don’t hate the idea of signing Moose and playing him at 2B early and giving Collins a crack at DH vs RH early. If Collins succeeds it’s a good problem to have, if not Moose is the DH anyway. On the other hand, I don’t think he has a ton of value, but I think he would be a fairly interesting trade chip to some teams. Could be a way to fill a spot in the back of the rotation without overspending on questionable talent in free agency

I’m not going to pretend to know what that rCERA is or what it does...but if it’s comparing McCann to Castillo...well no shit McCann is better. I hope that’s not the barometer we are going for in catcher defense. I’m not saying saying McCann is bad defensively, I just don’t see any tangible evidence that would make me think we can’t lose McCann’s presence at C. If Cease looked good and Lopez took a step forward I could see the point, but just Giolito improving isn’t enough reason for me to be content with a guy that can potentially be a black hole in the lineup. But with that said, there’s no reason not to bring back McCann at his cheap price next year

I’m still trying to figure out how/why McCann gets credit for how he handled the pitching staff so well...is it all because Giolito took a couple steps forward (to where he was always supposed to be)? Because I don’t see a single other player on the staff that made any kind of improvements or developments to give the catcher credit either way, good or bad