ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 01:20 PM) That's the way Joel Sherman made it sound around the trade deadline when they were stockpiling prospects. GIVE US GLEYBER TORRES AND CLINT FRAZIER PLEASE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 02:15 PM) It's not a 1 for 1 comparison. Acquiring JBJ comes at the expense of Chris Sale and guys like Devers, Kopech, etc. are 3 or 4 years away (at best) from contributing to the big league team in a meaningful way. JBJ is gone by then, so what's the point? Gomez costs nothing. Well not nothing exactly, but probably a contract similar to what the Sox gave Jackson last offseason. If you trade Sale, you have to build it around guys like Moncada and Ben that contribute immediately to the big league roster unless you are going burn it down full scale rebuild, which is simply not realistic under this management. It depends what your goal is and your window. If you are still going for it the next three years, then you get players that can contribute today. That means trade Kopech and Devers for someone that can play today. If you want players that can contribute today and want to strengthen your pipeline, then you keep them. Example (I'm not suggesting this trade): Sale for JBJ, Rodriguez, Devers, Kopech. Then Kopech + Devers for Jake Lamb. Sign Wieters with Sale money. RF Eaton LF Cabrera DH Abreu 1B Frazier 3B Lamb CF JBJ CA Wieters 2B Lawrie SS Anderson SP Quintana SP Rodon SP Gonzalez SP Rodriguez SP Shields This wouldn't be your final product (we'd want to strengthen our rotation), but the current state after the moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon_44 Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 It seems like the longer this thread has gone on, the more people are lowering their expectations on a Sale return. We're talking about possibly the best, most dominant LH in all of baseball at a bargain price. JBJ, Bennintendi, Kopech, Devers, is the minimum price for Sale. Rodriguez and Swihart added is a reasonable return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Oct 19, 2016 -> 10:43 AM) It seems like the longer this thread has gone on, the more people are lowering their expectations on a Sale return. We're talking about possibly the best, most dominant LH in all of baseball at a bargain price. JBJ, Bennintendi, Kopech, Devers, is the minimum price for Sale. Rodriguez and Swihart added is a reasonable return. Did Clayton Kershaw retire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I don't get why our FO doesn't want to do a normal rebuild. The half-and-half thing is not going to work. We all know how half-buying has worked for us, why would half-selling be any different? If we trade Sale to Boston, there's no need to require Bradley over Benintendi, as taking Bradley would definitely diminish the rest of the return. Benintendi will be better than Bradley, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 19, 2016 -> 10:51 AM) I don't get why our FO doesn't want to do a normal rebuild. The half-and-half thing is not going to work. We all know how half-buying has worked for us, why would half-selling be any different? If we trade Sale to Boston, there's no need to require Bradley over Benintendi, as taking Bradley would definitely diminish the rest of the return. Benintendi will be better than Bradley, IMO. We know the Sox really wanted Bradley but maybe that was because he has had success at the MLB level. After the trade deadline, Benintendi came up and did very good for his first cup of coffee. Despite being a small sample size, maybe they turn their attention more to him and having the extra 2 years of control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 19, 2016 -> 10:48 AM) Did Clayton Kershaw retire? I wouldn't want to speak for the original poster, but he did say "at a bargain price". Kershaw is better, I believe, but Sale's extremely friendly contract makes him that much more valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Oct 19, 2016 -> 01:03 PM) I wouldn't want to speak for the original poster, but he did say "at a bargain price". Kershaw is better, I believe, but Sale's extremely friendly contract makes him that much more valuable. Agree. I think Sale is worth more than any team will pay. Hopefully Q can be traded for 2-3 prospects which would make more teams viable trade partners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Oct 19, 2016 -> 11:43 AM) It seems like the longer this thread has gone on, the more people are lowering their expectations on a Sale return. We're talking about possibly the best, most dominant LH in all of baseball at a bargain price. JBJ, Bennintendi, Kopech, Devers, is the minimum price for Sale. Rodriguez and Swihart added is a reasonable return. Doesn't mean the White Sox FO has lowered their return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Given Dombrowski's history and the recent departure of some of Boston's FO analytics guys, that gives me more hope that a Sale deal will actually happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I personally feel Dombrowski and soon to be Wren don't have the same investment and attachment to Moncada as their departing FO, so after his lack luster and rushed debut I think Moncada and Benintendi are on the table for Sale. Hahn's asking price was allegedly Betts++. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 19, 2016 -> 10:51 AM) I don't get why our FO doesn't want to do a normal rebuild. The half-and-half thing is not going to work. We all know how half-buying has worked for us, why would half-selling be any different? If we trade Sale to Boston, there's no need to require Bradley over Benintendi, as taking Bradley would definitely diminish the rest of the return. Benintendi will be better than Bradley, IMO. Well they don't because most teams with a core of Sale, Quintana, Rodon, Eaton, Abreu, and Anderson wouldn't be rebuilding. They don't spend real $$ though and don't have prospects to trade. That's the rub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 19, 2016 -> 01:44 PM) Given Dombrowski's history and the recent departure of some of Boston's FO analytics guys, that gives me more hope that a Sale deal will actually happen. I have less reading/listening to the Boston media. But maybe Dombrowski has a great poker face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 QUOTE (beautox @ Oct 19, 2016 -> 01:09 PM) I personally feel Dombrowski and soon to be Wren don't have the same investment and attachment to Moncada as their departing FO, so after his lack luster and rushed debut I think Moncada and Benintendi are on the table for Sale. Hahn's asking price was allegedly Betts++. Plus Dombrowski has a history of selling to get what he wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 19, 2016 -> 01:57 PM) Plus Dombrowski has a history of selling to get what he wants. I was going through his trades though and man he made a lot of good ones. There were not any desperate "Shelby Miller" trades in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 19, 2016 -> 01:27 PM) Well they don't because most teams with a core of Sale, Quintana, Rodon, Eaton, Abreu, and Anderson wouldn't be rebuilding. They don't spend real $$ though and don't have prospects to trade. That's the rub. This is something I'd agree with in the past, but since it hasn't been working, they either need to go all in (for once) or sell, and it annoys me that we're *reportedly* trying to half-ass it again (or, at least, we were in July). Edited October 19, 2016 by Jose Abreu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 19, 2016 -> 01:57 PM) Plus Dombrowski has a history of selling to get what he wants. Yes, Even though Maybin and Miller didn't quite work out for the Marlins doesn't prove they weren't talented pieces to be given up for Miggy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I think the Yankees will be in the mix and they will only driving up the paying price. Both NYY and BOS have the prospects and major league roster depth to trade for Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 QUOTE (beautox @ Oct 19, 2016 -> 03:04 PM) Yes, Even though Maybin and Miller didn't quite work out for the Marlins doesn't prove they weren't talented pieces to be given up for Miggy. If a Sale or Q trade worked out the same way the Miggy trade worked out for the Marlins, there would be a lot of unhappiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 19, 2016 -> 03:19 PM) If a Sale or Q trade worked out the same way the Miggy trade worked out for the Marlins, there would be a lot of unhappiness. The problem is...how well holding Mike Trout is working for the Angels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 19, 2016 -> 03:19 PM) If a Sale or Q trade worked out the same way the Miggy trade worked out for the Marlins, there would be a lot of unhappiness. There is risk in everything, including keeping Sale and Q on losing teams with possibility they get injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 19, 2016 -> 02:19 PM) If a Sale or Q trade worked out the same way the Miggy trade worked out for the Marlins, there would be a lot of unhappiness. [insert Debbie Downer "WAH! WAH!" sound effect] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Otoh, the Marlins have two more World Series trophies than the Tigers in the past twenty years despite those massive Detroit payrolls...would they rather have a World Series win or Hall of Famer in Cabrera? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 19, 2016 -> 05:03 PM) Otoh, the Marlins have two more World Series trophies than the Tigers in the past twenty years despite those massive Detroit payrolls...would they rather have a World Series win or Hall of Famer in Cabrera? Their world series rings were pre-cabrera trade, so why is that a choice they would need to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) Teams who had that core and a thin farm like the Sox do would be reubuilding or at least taking a step back actually, they would have worked on things like young pitching depth and adding to the core 2 years ago). what they wouldn't do is start trading for vets on 1-2 year contracts, Hahn-style. Lack of spending "big money" is a canard...an excuse. Capable front offices would do a lot more with this core than Williams and Hahn have. Keep the prospects (the Sox do have prospects to trade for some Hahn-heroes; it would just wipe out the farm), trade Sale, fix the defense and get some pitching depth in here. Edited October 19, 2016 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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