Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/trade-d...es-twins-012617 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) Insane doesn't necessarily mean better. I think we have no choice but to hold onto a bunch of our guys for now, but the supply side of the equation could turn on us in a hurry. The Tigers, Royals, Rays, A's, & Pirates have potential pieces that could serve as quality alternatives to our trade chips if they decide to sell. The market could very well be flooded with sellers. Edited January 26, 2017 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanSox Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 And the Giants make 25 trades... Â Q and Frazier stay to start the year. Methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 It's always going to be insane, then reality kicks in. This past winter meetings was going to be crazy with trades. The free agents suck, everyone is available. Yet, if the White Sox didn't show up with Sale and Eaton, the only purposes the meetings held were a job fair and a rule 5 draft. Â I will believe it when I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 The Tigers were an interesting mention that article. It was a pretty strong rumor that they were looking to move anyone and everyone this off season, even Miguel and Verlander. They moved basically no one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 10:09 AM) The Tigers were an interesting mention that article. It was a pretty strong rumor that they were looking to move anyone and everyone this off season, even Miguel and Verlander. They moved basically no one. Â Â They wanted top prospects for those guys. Can't see that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I think Detroit could get something nice back if they were willing to eat money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 10:09 AM) The Tigers were an interesting mention that article. It was a pretty strong rumor that they were looking to move anyone and everyone this off season, even Miguel and Verlander. They moved basically no one.  Verlander is still owed a ton of money on his contract and the Tigers want top prospects for him while also trying to contend   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 10:31 AM) Verlander is still owed a ton of money on his contract and the Tigers want top prospects for him while also trying to contend  Which goes a long way towards confirming the market that the Sox were trying to trade guys like Frazier, Cabrera, Robertson etc pretty much sucks, and it isn't some ridiculous conspiracy to try to win next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 10:41 AM) Which goes a long way towards confirming the market that the Sox were trying to trade guys like Frazier, Cabrera, Robertson etc pretty much sucks, and it isn't some ridiculous conspiracy to try to win next year. Â Robertson's market should be better at the deadline assuming he pitches fairly well in 2017 Â Contending teams are always looking to add bullpen help for a stretch run. I don't think he brings back a Chapman or Miller type of return, but he could be one of the better relievers on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Verlander is a Hall of Famer who may have suffered a little mid-career trough due to injury but just came roaring back with (IMO) the best year of any AL starter last season. If he were a free agent this offseason he would probably be getting a raise, and Detroit (rightly) believes they can win with him. Comparing his situation to the likes of David "7 run blown save" Robertson is silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Robertson's market should be better at the deadline assuming he pitches fairly well in 2017 Â Contending teams are always looking to add bullpen help for a stretch run. I don't think he brings back a Chapman or Miller type of return, but he could be one of the better relievers on the market. That is one massive assumption for a pitcher who is very bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 10:50 AM) Verlander is a Hall of Famer who may have suffered a little mid-career trough due to injury but just came roaring back with (IMO) the best year of any AL starter last season. If he were a free agent this offseason he would probably be getting a raise, and Detroit (rightly) believes they can win with him. Comparing his situation to the likes of David "7 run blown save" Robertson is silly. Â And yet no one was willing to give up anything of substance for Verlander either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 10:46 AM) Robertson's market should be better at the deadline assuming he pitches fairly well in 2017 Â Contending teams are always looking to add bullpen help for a stretch run. I don't think he brings back a Chapman or Miller type of return, but he could be one of the better relievers on the market. Â If he stays healthy, I think a bounce back is a pretty solid bet for him. He has a really nice history of being in the second tier of closers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 10:50 AM) That is one massive assumption for a pitcher who is very bad.  I think it is reasonable for Robertson to cut his walks down in 2017 below 4.0 per 9 ip  Robertson could be one of the better relievers on the market. Every season bullpen help gets traded.  Have to have some faith, otherwise this rebuild will be dismal for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 10:50 AM) That is one massive assumption for a pitcher who is very bad. If you think he's very bad then no team is going to want him anyway, so there's little downside to holding on to him until the deadline to see if he improves even marginally. So what's the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) If you think he's very bad then no team is going to want him anyway, so there's little downside to holding on to him until the deadline to see if he improves even marginally. So what's the problem? I think he could be given away right now thus avoiding his 2018 salary. That's the problem, I dont want to pay him to stink up that team with his losing. Edited January 26, 2017 by Con te Giolito Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Also you still haven't really explained why Robertson is so bad anyway. Yeah his walk rate was really high last year but according to Pitch F/X he actually threw more pitches in the zone in 2016 than he did in 2014 and 2015, where his walk rates were 3.22/9 and 1.85/9. Seems pretty clear he was hurt a lot by our s***ty framing catchers. He's not an elite closer, but he's still a decent reliever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Ya, calling Robertson bad is just wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I think it is reasonable for Robertson to cut his walks down in 2017 below 4.0 per 9 ip Robertson could be one of the better relievers on the market. Every season bullpen help gets traded.  Have to have some faith, otherwise this rebuild will be dismal for you There are players I have faith and there are players I dont. Robertson falls into the second category because he sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 11:17 AM) There are players I have faith and there are players I dont. Robertson falls into the second category because he sucks. Â Wasn't it confirmed that he pitch injured last year? He had surgery pretty much as soon as the season ended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) He caves under pressure and doesn't have the right makeup to be a closer. When he unravels he completely unravels and now that he's going to walk everyone in sight that means more innings will start off poorly for him which will lead to him becoming unglued more often. When he's on he's on, but the problem with those guys is consistency. Once his confidence in his stuff is even questioned he goes completely in the tank and he hasn't been elite in 5 years so its not like he's going to get it back. Â What he did in Kansas City was the last nail in the coffin last season. I've honestly never seen anything like it and it soured me on him permanently. Edited January 26, 2017 by Con te Giolito Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 26, 2017 -> 11:17 AM) There are players I have faith and there are players I dont. Robertson falls into the second category because he sucks. Â Robertson and Cody Allen produced the same WAR in 2016 (Fangraphs)...does Allen suck too? Edited January 26, 2017 by steveno89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) Robertson and Cody Allen produced the same WAR in 2016...does Allen suck too? How to Talk Baseball in 2017: 1) Pull up Fangraphs leaderboards 2) Regurgitate  Allen definitely isn't an elite closer, but he's also definitely better than Robertson and no WAR figure calibrated to evaluate starting pitchers will convince me otherwise. Edited January 26, 2017 by Con te Giolito Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) Looking at the game log from last season, he had 4 games where he gave up more than one run. I see a command trend to this. Before the first game, he hadn't pitched in 5 days. The second time, a week. The third time, 12 days. Â The fourth and final bad game came after he had pitched the day before though so that's an outlier I suppose. Â http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...p&year=2016 Â Edit: if he doesn't pitch that one game against KC when it was a blowout, who knows what happens. Also, 16 of his 24 earned runs on the season came in 4 those outings. Edited January 26, 2017 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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