Jurickson Profar and Domonic Brown

[Two-Gun Pete]

Doesn't Anderson only have to put up like .5WAR per season or something to justify the money?

 

Again: Show us where I mentioned the money, with a specific dollar amount.

 

He was given one of only 5 contract extensions given to players with

 

Neither Sale, nor Q, nor Eaton got their contracts as quickly as Anderson did. And because of this, none of us yet know if Anderson is a decent player or not.

 

What we do know is that he is unbelievably providing negative fWAR while being a starting SS, with a WRC+ that is matched by many pitchers, and a -7 DRS. In other words, he's been bad this year. If not for the contract, he would have been sent down to work out his performance issues.

 

 

None of us know if he's a good player or not [including this FO], and yet, he's pretty much locked into the starting SS role for the foreseeable future. What other organizational behaviors will that impact? Will they pass on a SS prospect in the draft, or in the international market, or in trade? Will they not give more deserving candidates a shot to win the job?

 

We'll see. I just wish Anderson could have been made to wait at least as long as Sale, Q, and Eaton had to wait to get their extensions, so that his ability or lack of ability could have been more fully vetted.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Two-Gun Pete

[caulfield12]

Implicit/implied.

 

Rodon and Anderson were the first two building blocks of the rebuild, so it symbolically made sense to offer the deal (only needs a 0.5-1.0 war to pay off), Anderson's agent/family wanted the guaranteed financial security. Premium position. Potential. Dynamic athletic ability. Could Hahn predict off the field events as well?

 

Rodon/Boras would have been offered as well, but obviously rejected...so you can argue about the results Rodon has shown so far just as easily, in terms of meriting an extension.

 

Note they didn't offer Avi Garcia, to our knowledge, or Beckham, or Viciedo. Saladino and SANCHEZ, for that matter.

[Eminor3rd]

...and both are better, smarter, and more versatile players than Anderson, full stop.

 

Thank God we gave Anderson a contract extension after one lucky season.

 

I'm with you, man. Early career contract extensions have SUNK this team. Still living with the repercussions of Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, and Adam Eaton.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Eminor3rd

[Eminor3rd]

And that's perfectly fine. If it was OK for Sale to wait, why was it suddenly ALL-IMPORTANT to get Anderson signed, without having a body of work to properly judge him?

 

Because the market has changed dramatically since FO's started clearly getting the better end of these extensions. They've gotten substantially more expensive each year. Remember how much Evan Longoria signed for?

 

[southsider2k5]

And that's perfectly fine. If it was OK for Sale to wait, why was it suddenly ALL-IMPORTANT to get Anderson signed, without having a body of work to properly judge him?

 

 

 

Show us you work. Show us where I mentioned a dollar amount. We all noticed how you glossed over me emphasizing the STARTER'S ROLE when you quoted me.

 

If you're going to make ridiculous claims about me, at the very minimum, make these claims based on what should be easily found by searching my posts, not imaginary claims without basis.

 

 

See, the reality is that the only thing I've mentioned about this contract is that it was as premature as a virgin on prom night.

 

Nice redirection. What this told me is that you have zero support for any of your points as you are yet to back up a single one instead relying on "show you work" in the complete absence of substance. This is as deep as a Trump tweet fest.

[southsider2k5]

I'm with you, man. Early career contract extensions have SUNK this team. Still living with the repercussions of Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, and Adam Eaton.

 

I would think this would be obvious to anyone who has followed the team for more than a few days, but apparently in needs repeating. Instead we are treated to some imaginary world where apparently the Sox FORCED Chris Sale, Adam Eaton, and everyone else to wait for their extensions. I mean there is about as much depth to the other side of this discussion as a 3 am Trump Tweet-storm.

[ChiSox1917]

None of us know if he's a good player or not [including this FO], and yet, he's pretty much locked into the starting SS role for the foreseeable future. What other organizational behaviors will that impact? Will they pass on a SS prospect in the draft, or in the international market, or in trade? Will they not give more deserving candidates a shot to win the job?

 

Why would they do that? He's not a huge investment. If he doesn't work out, his contract is not overpaying even for a utility guy

[Dick Allen]

Why would they do that? He's not a huge investment. If he doesn't work out, his contract is not overpaying even for a utility guy

I like early extensions, but I thought the TA was a bit premature. There are still a lot of red flags, but he does have talent. We know he is capable of being a better fielder. I'm not giving up that this will ultimately be a bargain, but this year has been horrible obviously both on and off the field.

[Bob Sacamano]

I like early extensions, but I thought the TA was a bit premature. There are still a lot of red flags, but he does have talent. We know he is capable of being a better fielder. I'm not giving up that this will ultimately be a bargain, but this year has been horrible obviously both on and off the field.

 

I agree 100% and said so at the time.

 

I know people have said just stuff like "put him on the DL to let him get his head straight" and "this season can't end soon enough for him". When rosters expand in September, if they wanted to, couldn't they just let him go start his off-season early to get his head straight while keeping him on the 40-man?

Edited August 8, 2017 by soxfan2014

[Rowand44]

I think the "get his head straight" stuff is something none of us can actually comment on. No one knows what's going on in TA's head. Maybe he gets hot the last month of the season and carries it into next year who knows. Let him play out the rest of the season and just hope he's able to get stuff right next year whether it's mentally, physically, emotionally, whatever.

[witesoxfan]

I like early extensions, but I thought the TA was a bit premature. There are still a lot of red flags, but he does have talent. We know he is capable of being a better fielder. I'm not giving up that this will ultimately be a bargain, but this year has been horrible obviously both on and off the field.

 

I won't disagree that it was premature, but given the cost, it was worth the speculative investment.

[southsider2k5]

I won't disagree that it was premature, but given the cost, it was worth the speculative investment.

 

If you wait until the stage where it isn't premature, the cost goes from $25 million to $100 million.

[Harry Chappas]

In 1575 plate appearances in the minors he had 68 walks.

 

I have nothing more to add about the current mindset of Tim Anderson but his inability to draw a walk is not new.

 

Why he is batting anywhere other than 7-9 in the order is beyond me.

[Eminor3rd]

If you wait until the stage where it isn't premature, the cost goes from $25 million to $100 million.

 

Exactly. If you've identified the guy as one you believe in, the earlier the better. The explicit point of these things is to get as many of them in as possible, knowing full well that you're going to miss on some, but that the cost is so low that it will be overwhelmingly worthwhile in order to get the ones you hit on. Even if Tim Anderson busts completely, this strategy is still a good one and has proven to be extremely fruitful for our organization thusfar. In fact, it's been arguably as fruitful for us as it's been for any franchise. We've hit WAY more often than we've missed, at a rate that's frankly too high to expect to continue. We shouldn't lose perspective of this when we see a bust.

 

And that's IF Tim Anderson doesn't figure it out.

[Dick Allen]

If you wait until the stage where it isn't premature, the cost goes from $25 million to $100 million.

No way. Not for where he was service wise. He had less than one year service time. It was the largest extension in baseball history given to someone with less than 1 year service time. He would have 3 years of making barely more than the minimum and 3 arb years where it doesn't get too expensive the first or second year, but they are paying him more for that anyway.

 

Basically, the Sox bought 2 option years at the end for $1 million buyouts. A $12.5 million and $14 million.

 

If he is worth the option years it's a good deal.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Dick Allen

[LittleHurt05]

If you wait until the stage where it isn't premature, the cost goes from $25 million to $100 million.

 

Chris Sale - 5 years, $32.5 million

Jose Quintana - 5 years, $21 million

Adam Eaton - 5 years, $23.5 million

 

All three were more proven and further along than TA is. Where are you getting this $100 million figure?

[Dick Allen]

Chris Sale - 5 years, $32.5 million

Jose Quintana - 5 years, $21 million

Adam Eaton - 5 years, $23.5 million

 

All three were more proven and further along than TA is. Where are you getting this $100 million figure?

Anderson got the largest extension ever given to someone with less than 1 year service time.

 

So while it isn't cost prohibiitive, the fact is no team had ever done it. They put a lot of faith in TA. Hopefully, they will be rewarded.

[bmags]

Anderson got the largest extension ever given to someone with less than 1 year service time.

 

So while it isn't cost prohibiitive, the fact is no team had ever done it. They put a lot of faith in TA. Hopefully, they will be rewarded.

 

But there's also a reason someone like Anderson signed it.

[southsider2k5]

Chris Sale - 5 years, $32.5 million

Jose Quintana - 5 years, $21 million

Adam Eaton - 5 years, $23.5 million

 

All three were more proven and further along than TA is. Where are you getting this $100 million figure?

 

How many years ago were they?

 

And yes by the time he is "proven" we are talking about years, not another month or two. Once you hit the area where you are in your last non-arb year and into your arb years, that cost is nine figures. Look at the extension Lindor turned down.

 

Even look here at the difference between Anderson's deal and what 1 to 2 years of service does to the amount of a deal. Each year makes a large amount of difference. The Sox are going to get 9 years of control for about the price of Simmon's 7 year deal.

 

1. Andrelton Simmons: Seven years, $58 million.
2. Christian Yelich: Seven years, $49.57 million plus one club option.
3. Ryan Braun: Eight years, $45 million.
4. Anthony Rizzo: Seven years, $41 million plus two club options.
5. Gregory Polanco: Five years, $35 million plus two club options.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/francisc...-term-contract/

[LittleHurt05]

How many years ago were they?

 

And yes by the time he is "proven" we are talking about years, not another month or two. Once you hit the area where you are in your last non-arb year and into your arb years, that cost is nine figures. Look at the extension Lindor turned down.

 

Even look here at the difference between Anderson's deal and what 1 to 2 years of service does to the amount of a deal. Each year makes a large amount of difference. The Sox are going to get 9 years of control for about the price of Simmon's 7 year deal.

 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/francisc...-term-contract/

 

Francisco Lindor turned down that offer after seasons of 4.5 fWAR (in 99 games) and 6.3 fWAR. I guess we have different expectations for Tim Anderson.

[LittleHurt05]

But there's also a reason someone like Anderson signed it.

 

Same reason a guy like Jon Singleton signed a similar deal despite getting railroaded by his fellow players union.

[southsider2k5]

Francisco Lindor turned down that offer after seasons of 4.5 fWAR (in 99 games) and 6.3 fWAR. I guess we have different expectations for Tim Anderson.

 

And at that point he was proven. That is the point. If you sign them before they do that, it is WAY cheaper than if you wait for them to prove themselves.

[LittleHurt05]

And at that point he was proven. That is the point. If you sign them before they do that, it is WAY cheaper than if you wait for them to prove themselves.

 

That's assuming that they do prove themselves. Anderson has never been Lindor, so that $100 million number is far, far away.

 

I get why the extensions are done and it won't affect the Sox financially much at all, but that doesn't justify giving them to anyone at anytime. Like DA Said, it' the largest extension given to anyone with such little service time. I think it's fair to question if they should have waited a little longer.

[southsider2k5]

That's assuming that they do prove themselves. Anderson has never been Lindor, so that $100 million number is far, far away.

 

I get why the extensions are done and it won't affect the Sox financially much at all, but that doesn't justify giving them to anyone at anytime. Like DA Said, it' the largest extension given to anyone with such little service time. I think it's fair to question if they should have waited a little longer.

 

The answer is if they waited another year, the extension price could have very well gone up another $10 to $20 million and another year or two of a contract. Realize that Anderson isn't the biggest early extension ever, nor is he the earliest extension ever. He just fits a very specific set of criteria to make his extension sound more extreme than it really was if you aren't looking at the big picture. I'd also be willing to get that Anderson's "record" is eclipsed very quickly with some of the young talent coming into the game and the desire to lock them up cheaply and early.

[Dick Allen]

The answer is if they waited another year, the extension price could have very well gone up another $10 to $20 million and another year or two of a contract. Realize that Anderson isn't the biggest early extension ever, nor is he the earliest extension ever. He just fits a very specific set of criteria to make his extension sound more extreme than it really was if you aren't looking at the big picture. I'd also be willing to get that Anderson's "record" is eclipsed very quickly with some of the young talent coming into the game and the desire to lock them up cheaply and early.

Yes he is the biggest extension that early ever. And the extensions you came up with were nowhere near the $100 million you earlier claimed. A lot would have had to go right for an extension to cost $20 million more than what Anderson signed. He would have had to play a lot better.