witesoxfan Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Sep 16, 2017 -> 03:43 AM) He's looked like a DFA or non-tender every season we've had him except this one. Going to laugh at all you fools once AGAIN when he reverts to his usual self next year. But hopefully someone gives us something good before then so we don't have to experience that. It's a quintessential Billy Beane trade. Sell high after the career year and get toolsy high upside players who had down years. Rinse repeat. Avisail Garcia is a better player than you are giving him credit for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 QUOTE (zisk @ Sep 16, 2017 -> 01:02 PM) Would like to disagree with you but I can't. Watched him get 5 hits and 7 rbi's with 3 ground balls through the infield and 1 leg hit. He could easily have been 1 for 6 that night. In a bad year he probably would have. Interesting. I watched a smart hitter pound five hits and knock in seven runs. I watched a disciplined hitter spank the baseball. Congrats Avi. Nobody can ever take this season away from you and it should earn you a few extra bucks somewhere at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 16, 2017 -> 02:42 PM) We'll be so happy for you if and when Avi sucks again and you are right about him. Congrats in advance. This is a good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 .390 BABIP is not sustainable. .320 or so could be for him and that should still lead to some decent years. Does he have enough in game power for a corner OF spot? I'm very curious to see what the Sox do here. They need to decide whether to extend him or trade him. If I were betting, I'd guess that they deal him this offseason and try to sell high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soha Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 16, 2017 -> 03:45 PM) .390 BABIP is not sustainable. .320 or so could be for him and that should still lead to some decent years. Does he have enough in game power for a corner OF spot? I'm very curious to see what the Sox do here. They need to decide whether to extend him or trade him. If I were betting, I'd guess that they deal him this offseason and try to sell high. So.. before it wasn't sustainable for more than a month or two. But it was sustainable for the entire season, so now it's changed to it's not sustainable for more than a full season? The goalposts keep moving in this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 His career BABIP is .340 so I think .320 is selling him short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 QUOTE (Soha @ Sep 16, 2017 -> 04:03 PM) So.. before it wasn't sustainable for more than a month or two. But it was sustainable for the entire season, so now it's changed to it's not sustainable for more than a full season? The goalposts keep moving in this discussion. The basic problem is - guys were saying there was no way he could keep that BABIP up for the rest of the season at the AS break, and it's actually gone up in the 2nd half and not down. Once you see that, something that you said baseball will not allow happen actually happens, you have to stop and reevaluate what can and can't happen. Somehow he's done this. He's gotten better, not worse, with the exception of that one injury. So now we have to stop and back out to some different number, because this season has happened and it's a complete season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 16, 2017 -> 01:42 PM) We'll be so happy for you if and when Avi sucks again and you are right about him. Congrats in advance. And we'll be just as happy for you if and when the rebuild fails (it won't) so you can say you were right. Oh, that's right. You gave yourself the right to jump on the bandwagon if the rebuild is a success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 16, 2017 -> 03:45 PM) .390 BABIP is not sustainable. .320 or so could be for him and that should still lead to some decent years. Does he have enough in game power for a corner OF spot? I'm very curious to see what the Sox do here. They need to decide whether to extend him or trade him. If I were betting, I'd guess that they deal him this offseason and try to sell high. Given how good he is at infield hits and beating out choppers, I do think he profiles as a guy who can sustain an above average BABIP, probably no higher than .350 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 QUOTE (Soha @ Sep 16, 2017 -> 04:03 PM) So.. before it wasn't sustainable for more than a month or two. But it was sustainable for the entire season, so now it's changed to it's not sustainable for more than a full season? The goalposts keep moving in this discussion. Guilty as charged I guess. There's a reason why guys don't have .390 BABIP's every year. It just doesn't happen. I'd sell high if they can but I completely understand if they want to extend him. They just need to do one or the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 16, 2017 -> 04:18 PM) The basic problem is - guys were saying there was no way he could keep that BABIP up for the rest of the season at the AS break, and it's actually gone up in the 2nd half and not down. Once you see that, something that you said baseball will not allow happen actually happens, you have to stop and reevaluate what can and can't happen. Somehow he's done this. He's gotten better, not worse, with the exception of that one injury. So now we have to stop and back out to some different number, because this season has happened and it's a complete season. BABIP stabilizes for hitters at 800 balls in play. Garcia has put 351 in play this year. His current BABIP is noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soha Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 16, 2017 -> 04:59 PM) Guilty as charged I guess. There's a reason why guys don't have .390 BABIP's every year. It just doesn't happen. I'd sell high if they can but I completely understand if they want to extend him. They just need to do one or the other What I would say is. you're probably right that his BABIP won't hold where it is. But there's more to hitting than just BABIP. It's isn't the be all end all. Is it impossible for Avi to continue improving in to next year? What if he starts lifting the ball more than he has in the past? If he maintains his very hard contact and starts lifting the ball, even with an expected drop of his BA - he's going to be an even better player than he's been this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Soha @ Sep 16, 2017 -> 03:32 PM) What I would say is. you're probably right that his BABIP won't hold where it is. But there's more to hitting than just BABIP. It's isn't the be all end all. Is it impossible for Avi to continue improving in to next year? What if he starts lifting the ball more than he has in the past? If he maintains his very hard contact and starts lifting the ball, even with an expected drop of his BA - he's going to be an even better player than he's been this year. This sounds very familiar. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?s=...t&p=3561830 Edited September 17, 2017 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 JD Martinez had a 389 BABIP in his 2014 breakout 4 WAR season. He had a .339 BABIP the next season with a 5 WAR. Avi is unique. Most guys with his exit velocity hit more home runs and don't run as well as he does. I do think he is a guy who isn't going to run well long, but I do think the homers are coming. It's the next step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Quin @ Sep 16, 2017 -> 08:52 PM) This is a good post. Thank u Quin for being objective. QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 16, 2017 -> 09:45 PM) .390 BABIP is not sustainable. .320 or so could be for him and that should still lead to some decent years. Does he have enough in game power for a corner OF spot? I'm very curious to see what the Sox do here. They need to decide whether to extend him or trade him. If I were betting, I'd guess that they deal him this offseason and try to sell high. Fair position. Hahn has made it clear he doesn't value Avi much with those statements. I bet he's gone. I love Avi tho. Good luck winning pennants with no veterans. QUOTE (Soha @ Sep 16, 2017 -> 10:03 PM) So.. before it wasn't sustainable for more than a month or two. But it was sustainable for the entire season, so now it's changed to it's not sustainable for more than a full season? The goalposts keep moving in this discussion. Great post. QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 16, 2017 -> 10:36 PM) And we'll be just as happy for you if and when the rebuild fails (it won't) so you can say you were right. Oh, that's right. You gave yourself the right to jump on the bandwagon if the rebuild is a success. Are u crazy? I am a WHITE SOX fan. I want to win. If the rebuild fails I'll want Hahn fired of course but I'll be SAD. I wanna win now; I want to win in 4 years. I WANT TO WIN. I care less about personal vindication. As a fan I have a right to want the team to SHOW ME. If the rebuild works, great. We win pennants. If it fails, I'll be very upset as I want W after W whether you believe that or not. That other fan who caused your post was saying he'd take great joy in ripping us Avi supporters when he fails next year. Real class. Edited September 17, 2017 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxforlife05 Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 16, 2017 -> 11:07 PM) Are u crazy? I am a WHITE SOX fan. I want to win. If the rebuild fails I'll want Hahn fired of course but I'll be SAD. I wanna win now; I want to win in 4 years. I WANT TO WIN. I care less about personal vindication. As a fan I have a right to want the team to SHOW ME. If the rebuild works, great. We win pennants. If it fails, I'll be very upset as I want W after W whether you believe that or not. That other fan who caused your post was saying he'd take great joy in ripping us Avi supporters when he fails next year. Real class. Cry about it snowflake. You complain about all these trades we made that are going to allow us to contend for a world series. if we had it your way we'd still have a roster full of austin jacksons, matt albers, and jimmy rollins. and then you'd complain about not winning. hilarious. The funny thing about this site now is its very difficult to search old threads. If some people's track records on these things were more clearly visible a lot of people would get ignored. That's another thing this site could use - an ignore feature. That way I can ignore anyone who's proven to be clueless. Edited September 17, 2017 by soxforlife05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Sep 17, 2017 -> 05:33 AM) Cry about it snowflake. You complain about all these trades we made that are going to allow us to contend for a world series. if we had it your way we'd still have a roster full of austin jacksons, matt albers, and jimmy rollins. and then you'd complain about not winning. hilarious. The funny thing about this site now is its very difficult to search old threads. If some people's track records on these things were more clearly visible a lot of people would get ignored. That's another thing this site could use - an ignore feature. That way I can ignore anyone who's proven to be clueless. No, I blame the front office for acquiring those three stiffs you mention. I want results and I don't give Hahn, Jerry or anybody a break. They charge that kind of money for beer, hot dogs, tickets, parking ... they should give the fans WINS for their money. You sound like another guy who can't handle anybody disagreeing with them. Isn't that truly what a snowflake is? Pot/kettle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Sep 17, 2017 -> 01:33 AM) Cry about it snowflake. You complain about all these trades we made that are going to allow us to contend for a world series. if we had it your way we'd still have a roster full of austin jacksons, matt albers, and jimmy rollins. and then you'd complain about not winning. hilarious. The funny thing about this site now is its very difficult to search old threads. If some people's track records on these things were more clearly visible a lot of people would get ignored. That's another thing this site could use - an ignore feature. That way I can ignore anyone who's proven to be clueless. Just google "site:soxtalk.com [search term]" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soha Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 16, 2017 -> 09:31 PM) This sounds very familiar. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?s=...t&p=3561830 I'm surprised this isn't a more common view around here. Some people just can't let go of Avi's poor years, not matter how good he does. It's kind of like some Hawk fans that won't let go of Corey Crawford's flubbed Coyotes playoff series in 2012 - despite his solid performances in 2 subsequent Stanley Cup wins. Edited September 17, 2017 by Soha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 16, 2017 -> 10:05 PM) JD Martinez had a 389 BABIP in his 2014 breakout 4 WAR season. He had a .339 BABIP the next season with a 5 WAR. Avi is unique. Most guys with his exit velocity hit more home runs and don't run as well as he does. I do think he is a guy who isn't going to run well long, but I do think the homers are coming. It's the next step. And this could easily be, and would work for him. It actually reminds me of Gavin Floyd in 2008 and 2009. He started out really well in 2008 but it was pretty much smoke and mirrors, and when he was actually starting to show more command and make better pitches, the hitters were starting to hit him. It's a weird game. The same could certainly end up being true about Avisail. I like the guy moving forward, and for the longest time I said he was a linebacker for the Bears or a guy they should convert to pitching. But a .390+ BABIP is simply unsustainable for any hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Hey Chili, What was your minimum PAs for Avi in our wager? 550? Could be close... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 19, 2017 -> 11:30 AM) Hey Chili, What was your minimum PAs for Avi in our wager? 550? Could be close... If you follow MLB leaders rules you have already won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 19, 2017 -> 11:34 AM) If you follow MLB leaders rules you have already won. Probably what it should go by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 19, 2017 -> 11:30 AM) Hey Chili, What was your minimum PAs for Avi in our wager? 550? Could be close... If we assumed Avisail went 0 for his next 40, he'd be hitting .307. That would put him at 555 PAs. I think Joe should buy you a sandwich. Also, just because I was curious to see - Avisail would have to go 0 for 54 to fall below .300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 19, 2017 -> 09:55 AM) If we assumed Avisail went 0 for his next 40, he'd be hitting .307. That would put him at 555 PAs. I think Joe should buy you a sandwich. Also, just because I was curious to see - Avisail would have to go 0 for 54 to fall below .300. Joe agreed to lose some LBs if he lost! I expect him to be a mean, lean, horndog machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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