2 hours ago, SoxAce said:

Obviously that instinctive double play he had a couple days ago to tag Vogelbach out screams baseball dumb right there...

Thank god for his quick thinking, another 30 seconds and Vogelbach might have walked into 1st safely.

Can the guy play outfield? Catcher actually is a great idea. He doesn't look like a centerfielder to me. He looks like a Manny Sanguillen type old school catcher. Or leave him at ss and assume he'll get better.

I think he just needs reps. The tools are obvious. Regardless, it's way too early to move him or even worry about it. I guess people need something to talk about though. 

Edited April 28, 20187 yr by TaylorStSox

6 hours ago, greg775 said:

Can the guy play outfield? Catcher actually is a great idea. He doesn't look like a centerfielder to me. He looks like a Manny Sanguillen type old school catcher. Or leave him at ss and assume he'll get better.

Catcher? How many catchers can you name that are athletic, lean and fast like TA? TA would be a much much more successful in CF than catcher.

 

Regardless TAint moving from SS.

He certainly has the athleticism to play CF. But I don't see it happening unless Machado signs here.

17 minutes ago, Sarava said:

He certainly has the athleticism to play CF. But I don't see it happening unless Machado signs here.

Still would love to give Yolmer a chance and open up 3rd for more offense next year 

"Low baseball IQ" is something that we should probably stay away from when discussing a black athlete, even if we think someone is as dumb as a box of rocks. Having said that, there is no denying that Anderson makes too many errors.  So what is Renteria or Sox coaching staff doing to address this?

I get frustrated by TA's defensive  technique on ground balls. His footwork often does not get him to where he needs to be to catch and then transition into throwing with balance and accuracy. He almost never uses two hands to catch a grounder, even when that looks like the safest and most reliable means.  Can't the Sox promote Omar Vizquel to bench coach on the major league team so he can  teach players how to catch and throw and focus in on their job?

If TA doesn't work out, the Sox might consider taking a SS or third basemen in the first round of this years Draft, although I think the top few prospects will be high school players.  Another option, is to pursue Machado in trade (then sign him to a long term deal) or bid for him in free agency after the season.

TA reminds me of Marcus Semien in some respects. He can hit in clutch situations, but he also can make key errors on routine plays.   If he doesn't cut it at SS, maybe he should be traded because our minor league teams are stacked with OF talent.  As far as I am concerned you can write in Luis Robert for CF and that might be sooner than expected.

Yeah I wouldn't describe Timmy as having a low baseball IQ. He does look to be lackadaisical at times. Timmy is still young and adjusting to the speed of the game. He has improved tremendously at SS since being drafted and had a setback last year after losing a loved one. Give the kid a break. This is a development year for all the players and they are going to make mistakes and even get lackadaisical from time to time. 

I always laughed at the contrast in how Ramirez and Beckham were treated. Not only was Ramirez a much better player, he was also a smarter player, though you would never know it by listening to fans. I don't even think it's intentional, it's just inherent in our culture, or rather the culture of sports. 

12 minutes ago, Tony said:

Sal Perez....GO AWAY. You are what is killing this game. 

So poor Salvy has hurt feelings and is living in the past. 

I can't be the only one who thinks Tim was over the line yesterday and last week against the Astros. 

It doesn't matter what I think though.  If his teammates and manager aren't going to do anything, and this is the new norm in baseball, then it is what it is.

Personally, I think the sense of the moment in the game has been obliterated and it's too bad.  Others don't share this opinion, and you have that right too.

 

Tim is quickly becoming one of my all-time favorites.  I can’t remember another guy who played with this much swag.  He’s kind of playing the A.J. role but doing so in more of a fun manner.  And the kid has got some serious balls to take all this criticism and still stand up for what he believes in.  I really hope he doesn’t back down because lame ass cowards like Perez catch feelings & then threaten his teammates.

1 hour ago, flavum said:

I can't be the only one who thinks Tim was over the line yesterday and last week against the Astros. 

It doesn't matter what I think though.  If his teammates and manager aren't going to do anything, and this is the new norm in baseball, then it is what it is.

Personally, I think the sense of the moment in the game has been obliterated and it's too bad.  Others don't share this opinion, and you have that right too.

 

I think you're on your own.

 

If Tim did something to show up the opponent, I'd be mad. But attempting to steal a base and exclaiming after a home run don't fall into that category. Anything else he did was a reaction to the opponents. 

I f***ing hate the Royals

Edited April 29, 20187 yr by Eminor3rd

4 hours ago, flavum said:

I can't be the only one who thinks Tim was over the line yesterday and last week against the Astros. 

It doesn't matter what I think though.  If his teammates and manager aren't going to do anything, and this is the new norm in baseball, then it is what it is.

Personally, I think the sense of the moment in the game has been obliterated and it's too bad.  Others don't share this opinion, and you have that right too.

 

The message must be that you have to accomplish something before you show some swagger. The Sox don't have any players who would know the difference so Tim is on his own. I suppose Salvage is cranky over playing on a sore knee for a has-been team who just beat us twice. I think Jose would have been the guy to step up and say something if he gave a hoot. 

On 4/28/2018 at 12:00 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

Not to be the PC police here, but basically saying he is mentally retarded when it comes to baseball intelligence is a pretty terrible take.  He definitely is prone to errors bat that is entirely related to a lack of focus and/or poor fundamentals.  That can and should be coached up in time if our staff is worth a damn.  He may never reach his defensive potential, but thinking he will play himself off the team because of the glove is laughable IMO.

I actually thought he meant “Michael Jordan” with the 45 comment!  

Anyhow...I think they will ride Anderson at SS.  A Machado acquisition might force a mindset change on the left side of the infield, but I think many believe in him at SS.  That’s a LOT of errors though...yikes.  He kind of reminds me of Alfonso Soriano—they eventually pushed him to the OF.  

In my personal opinion a players' race has nothing to do with how I view him as a baseball player. Anderson is now in his 3rd season at the major league level, he's made as of now 48 errors. He's made a number of base running mistakes (which include being picked off). I'm curious at what point fans feel the time will have ended for using the comment "he needs more experience"?

Personally I don't care for the "antics" for wont of a better word but if the guy is a top notch ballplayer I can live with them. I'd be more comfortable with his situation if he spent less time on the "antics" and perhaps more on development. 

I had hoped by his 3rd season he'd be further along in his defense / base running skills. His offense is improving I will say that for him.

And regarding Ramirez I will relate something one of the Sox announcers told me (and no I'm not going to say who) "he's the dumbest shortstop in the league" (direct quote.) Alexei was a talented athlete who far to often in my opinion, let concentration lapses get the better of him.

37 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

In my personal opinion a players' race has nothing to do with how I view him as a baseball player. Anderson is now in his 3rd season at the major league level, he's made as of now 48 errors. He's made a number of base running mistakes (which include being picked off). I'm curious at what point fans feel the time will have ended for using the comment "he needs more experience"?

Personally I don't care for the "antics" for wont of a better word but if the guy is a top notch ballplayer I can live with them. I'd be more comfortable with his situation if he spent less time on the "antics" and perhaps more on development. 

I had hoped by his 3rd season he'd be further along in his defense / base running skills. His offense is improving I will say that for him.

And regarding Ramirez I will relate something one of the Sox announcers told me (and no I'm not going to say who) "he's the dumbest shortstop in the league" (direct quote.) Alexei was a talented athlete who far to often in my opinion, let concentration lapses get the better of him.

Fans will probably give him more time because he’s 24 and was incredibly raw when he was drafted.  And while you keep saying 3rd season to express disappointment, he’s effectively in his second season playing time wise.  I’m not sure why you think he can’t or won’t get better with more experience.

Also, he’s been one of the most valuable base-runners in baseball this year, so I’m not sure this idea he has poor base-running skills comes from.  You must be only looking at the rare mistakes and not the overall body of work which has been stellar.

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Fans will probably give him more time because he’s 24 and was incredibly raw when he was drafted.  And while you keep saying 3rd season to express disappointment, he’s effectively in his second season playing time wise.  I’m not sure why you think he can’t or won’t get better with more experience.

Also, he’s been one of the most valuable base-runners in baseball this year, so I’m not sure this idea he has poor base-running skills comes from.  You must be only looking at the rare mistakes and not the overall body of work which has been stellar.

Valid point. Disappointment in him is perhaps to strong a word, I'm very concerned about the errors overall. 48 errors, many on simple plays is a lot to me, 3rd year inexperience or not. My comment on base running is tied to baseball sense. He's gotten picked off especially this year at some very inopportune times. Maybe that's also because of his inexperience. We'll see. Also he's had a half season, a full season and the first month to this year in the majors, plus a number of spring training games so he's not as raw in my opinion as you believe.

I will say this, if the Sox happen to select one of the shortstops rumored to be connected to them with that #4 pick this June, that will tell me something.

10 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Valid point. Disappointment in him is perhaps to strong a word, I'm very concerned about the errors overall. 48 errors, many on simple plays is a lot to me, 3rd year inexperience or not. My comment on base running is tied to baseball sense. He's gotten picked off especially this year at some very inopportune times. Maybe that's also because of his inexperience. We'll see. Also he's had a half season, a full season and the first month to this year in the majors, plus a number of spring training games so he's not as raw in my opinion as you believe.

I will say this, if the Sox happen to select one of the shortstops rumored to be connected to them with that #4 pick this June, that will tell me something.

Except we have seen exactly this kind of play all over baseball. 

As to Anderson specifically, he is really raw in terms of repetitions.  He had less ABs in his entire college experience than Gordon Beckham had in his final year of college.  He had 332 ABs total in all of college.   He didn't play baseball at all until his junior year of high school.  That is years of playing that Anderson didn't have to get those repetitions that lots of others player got.

While you can say he is 25 years old, and almost through his second full year of MLB service time, he is YEARS younger in terms of actual playing experience, especially that of a high level competition.  Tim Anderson is quite literally learning on the job.

11 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Valid point. Disappointment in him is perhaps to strong a word, I'm very concerned about the errors overall. 48 errors, many on simple plays is a lot to me, 3rd year inexperience or not. My comment on base running is tied to baseball sense. He's gotten picked off especially this year at some very inopportune times. Maybe that's also because of his inexperience. We'll see. Also he's had a half season, a full season and the first month to this year in the majors, plus a number of spring training games so he's not as raw in my opinion as you believe.

I will say this, if the Sox happen to select one of the shortstops rumored to be connected to them with that #4 pick this June, that will tell me something.

I would very much not judge Anderson based on what happens in the draft. Especially when you're drafting in the #4 slot you don't pick that on need in MLB. If I had Carlos Correa and the top guy on my list is a college shortstop named Alex Bregmann, I'm still taking him because he's the top guy on my list. If I have to move him because the SS position is full, it's easier to move a guy from SS in the minors than to find a SS. Move him to 3b, trade him, move him to CF, move him somewhere else, who cares. 

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Except we have seen exactly this kind of play all over baseball. 

As to Anderson specifically, he is really raw in terms of repetitions.  He had less ABs in his entire college experience than Gordon Beckham had in his final year of college.  He had 332 ABs total in all of college.   He didn't play baseball at all until his junior year of high school.  That is years of playing that Anderson didn't have to get those repetitions that lots of others player got.

While you can say he is 25 years old, and almost through his second full year of MLB service time, he is YEARS younger in terms of actual playing experience, especially that of a high level competition.  Tim Anderson is quite literally learning on the job.

 

I like TA but  he's got the next 120 games or so to prove he's a MLB SS.  I mean they'll trot him out there next year as well but if he isn't improved by the end of this year I'm not sure how much improvement he's going to make.

He's completely different than Semian tools wise but polish wise they are very similar.  They both constantly round balls off (Semian because he's not athletic enough; Anderson because he's not fundamentally practiced enough) and make a lot of errors because of it.   Some of it for TA has to be realizing who is running.   He gets to the ball quickly on most guys he's going to have plenty of time to set and throw.  He rushes way too often.

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

 

I like TA but  he's got the next 120 games or so to prove he's a MLB SS.  I mean they'll trot him out there next year as well but if he isn't improved by the end of this year I'm not sure how much improvement he's going to make.

He's completely different than Semian tools wise but polish wise they are very similar.  They both constantly round balls off (Semian because he's not athletic enough; Anderson because he's not fundamentally practiced enough) and make a lot of errors because of it.   Some of it for TA has to be realizing who is running.   He gets to the ball quickly on most guys he's going to have plenty of time to set and throw.  He rushes way too often.

Anderson probably has the most rope out of anyone in our system right now, and there is his contract.  There is literally no SS who is even close to being able to take his job.  This isn't like SP where guys are going to be smashing down the door literally any day now. 

I mean I guess we could hope for Machado at SS next year, but again, I am probably the most bearish on that actually happening.

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Anderson probably has the most rope out of anyone in our system right now, and there is his contract.  There is literally no SS who is even close to being able to take his job.  This isn't like SP where guys are going to be smashing down the door literally any day now. 

I mean I guess we could hope for Machado at SS next year, but again, I am probably the most bearish on that actually happening.

I agree 100%.   Hopefully he settles in closer to 3 WAR true talent than 1.  His bat will play but if he's -10 runs at SS he's a 1 WAR player.  If he's +10 he's at 3WAR.

Longtime lurker to this board,first post.

Tim’s an entertaining player who makes mistakes, to be sure. But as other posters have noted, he is young. He’s also playing the most difficult position in baseball (along with catcher), so the learning curve is greater in that regard. Luis Aparicio had 35 errors in his first year -- he recorded 30 errors as late as 1960. So this happens with shortstops

This thread is primarily interesting because of its casual racism, though. Lillian’s comment about basketball players, baseball IQ’s and genetic was especially troubling in its casual racism. And troubling because no one called this out.

It’s not altogether surprising, though. I’ve been a Sox fan for more than 40 years and went to school near Sox Park (proud DeLaSalle alumnus). And the one thing that many Sox fans don’t want to admit is that there’s a core group of Sox fans that has always had a double-standard for black and Latin players, including the best player in franchise history, Frank Thomas.

I think this is partly because the core Sox fans have historically come from nearby neighborhoods like Bridgeport, Canaryville, Mount Greenwood, Morgan Park and other Southwest Side neighborhoods which have had a history of racial tension and animosity towards blacks and Latins. 

This animosity exists today, as noted by this Sun-Times story about a Latin little league team being labeled as “taco boys” when they played in Beverly: https://chicago.suntimes.com/?post_type=cst_article&p=1067048