KiwiSox Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, Stealth G.O.A.T. said: I think in a perfect world, the Sox would indeed want both. That's obviously up to the players at the end of the day. I do not think they prefer Harper over Manny. I think the moves they've made, i.e. Alonso and Jay pretty clearly shows what their intentions are. My explanation for the Jay and Alonso acquisitions is that there were offers made at the very beginning of the off-season for both and, as the off-season progressed, the Indians decided that they weren't going to get anything better than Alex Call for Alonso and that Jon Jay was not getting a better contract elsewhere so they both accepted long-standing Sox offers. What I do not think happened is the Sox decided in mid-December to pursue both as part of a broader Machado strategy that intensified over the course of the off-season. I think those two were part of the plan all along and that the plan all along has been to get both Harper and Machado on the Sox. Still, in their heart of hearts, the Sox want Harper most. I have no source or proof for that, just a gut feeling informed by the fact that Harper had to have some idea of what was on the table when he rejected $300m from the Nationals and, at this point, it seems obvious the Phillies havent exceeded that offer from the Nationals. So, to me, that means someone else has intimated that they are willing to go that high. With the Dodgers, Yankees and Cubs all publicly out on Harper I strong believe that team is the White Sox. But the Sox wont sign Harper until the Machado situation is resolved. So here we are in this knot that shows no signs of breaking. You can say this is a lot of conjecture (and you'd be right) but it makes a lot of sense. I dont think anything with either Machado or Harper has changed since early-December when it appears the Yankees, Cubs and Dodgers made it clear they weren't going to be big players. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulfly Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I think Bryce was their top target early on. The leak of the United Center Harper stuff kind of forced their hand on them being a major player for him. They also want Machado; the moves they have made make that pretty clear. There's no way they aren't still in on both of them. But I don't blame them for not coming out and saying that. I think the moves they made are to make it obvious they are 100% in on Machado, while trying to get back into the shadows on Harper. Maybe all along they wanted to get Harper at whatever the cost was, but try and get a discount on Machado? Either way, this isn't over yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth G.O.A.T. Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, KiwiSox said: My explanation for the Jay and Alonso acquisitions is that there were offers made at the very beginning of the off-season for both and, as the off-season progressed, the Indians decided that they weren't going to get anything better than Alex Call for Alonso and that Jon Jay was not getting a better contract elsewhere so they both accepted long-standing Sox offers. What I do not think happened is the Sox decided in mid-December to pursue both as part of a broader Machado strategy that intensified over the course of the off-season. I think those two were part of the plan all along and that the plan all along has been to get both Harper and Machado on the Sox. Still, in their heart of hearts, the Sox want Harper most. I have no source or proof for that, just a gut feeling informed by the fact that Harper had to have some idea of what was on the table when he rejected $300m from the Nationals and, at this point, it seems obvious the Phillies havent exceeded that offer from the Nationals. So, to me, that means someone else has intimated that they are willing to go that high. With the Dodgers, Yankees and Cubs all publicly out on Harper I strong believe that team is the White Sox. But the Sox wont sign Harper until the Machado situation is resolved. So here we are in this knot that shows no signs of breaking. You can say this is a lot of conjecture (and you'd be right) but it makes a lot of sense. I dont think anything with either Machado or Harper has changed since early-December when it appears the Yankees, Cubs and Dodgers made it clear they weren't going to be big players. I agree that Alonso and Jay were not just 2 last minute December acquisitions. I do believe they were a part of a plan all along. But I also believe they were made with Manny in mind. They are also baseball moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 29 minutes ago, KiwiSox said: My explanation for the Jay and Alonso acquisitions is that there were offers made at the very beginning of the off-season for both and, as the off-season progressed, the Indians decided that they weren't going to get anything better than Alex Call for Alonso and that Jon Jay was not getting a better contract elsewhere so they both accepted long-standing Sox offers. What I do not think happened is the Sox decided in mid-December to pursue both as part of a broader Machado strategy that intensified over the course of the off-season. I think those two were part of the plan all along and that the plan all along has been to get both Harper and Machado on the Sox. Still, in their heart of hearts, the Sox want Harper most. I have no source or proof for that, just a gut feeling informed by the fact that Harper had to have some idea of what was on the table when he rejected $300m from the Nationals and, at this point, it seems obvious the Phillies havent exceeded that offer from the Nationals. So, to me, that means someone else has intimated that they are willing to go that high. With the Dodgers, Yankees and Cubs all publicly out on Harper I strong believe that team is the White Sox. But the Sox wont sign Harper until the Machado situation is resolved. So here we are in this knot that shows no signs of breaking. You can say this is a lot of conjecture (and you'd be right) but it makes a lot of sense. I dont think anything with either Machado or Harper has changed since early-December when it appears the Yankees, Cubs and Dodgers made it clear they weren't going to be big players. Wouldn’t it have been easier to have the extra $30 million (keeping Smith and Narvaez, no Colome either) for Jay/Alonso/Castillo to allocate to both Harper and Machado on the 2019 payroll??? That’s almost the per year salary for ONE whale, at least as currently projected. Not to mention there was no need to acquire Alonso (since your assumption was Harper in RF instead of Palka) when you could simply DH Palka with a RH counterpart and allocate the money elsewhere. In other words, why add three lefties when we already had Palka or Delmonico for DH? Odds are one of those two would give you equal results at a fraction of the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 It should be pretty clear by now that Machado is the priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Stealth G.O.A.T. said: I agree that Alonso and Jay were not just 2 last minute December acquisitions. I do believe they were a part of a plan all along. But I also believe they were made with Manny in mind. They are also baseball moves. According to Hahn, Alonso wasn’t even considered until after the winter meetings. Sounds like it came together in 24 hours. Edited January 30, 2019 by fathom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiSox Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: It should be pretty clear by now that Machado is the priority. I work under the assumption most, if not all, of what we think we know is presented with an ulterior motive and that since its impossible to know the difference we cant really regard any of it as fact. Especially all that's come out in the past month and a half or so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, KiwiSox said: I work under the assumption most, if not all, of what we think we know is presented with an ulterior motive and that since its impossible to know the difference we cant really regard any of it as fact. Especially all that's come out in the past month and a half or so. I just don’t think there’s an alternative motive to bringing on Manny’s buddies. Like Alsono is legitimately overpaid and we helped out a division rival by taking him. Throw in Jay and the fact we tried to trade for him last offseason and I think all evidence suggests he’s our preferred target. Now maybe that’s because he’ll likely be cheaper, but it’s really hard to objectively argue against him being the priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 28 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: It should be pretty clear by now that Machado is the priority. He totally is. Jay and Alonso pretty much drive that thought home. I think the Sox didn't think they stood a chance with Manny, and once they realized the Yankees were not serious players for they jumped at the chance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: I just don’t think there’s an alternative motive to bringing on Manny’s buddies. Like Alsono is legitimately overpaid and we helped out a division rival by taking him. Throw in Jay and the fact we tried to trade for him last offseason and I think all evidence suggests he’s our preferred target. Now maybe that’s because he’ll likely be cheaper, but it’s really hard to objectively argue against him being the priority. You can also argue that the decision to keep Castillo and adding Colome/Herrera all have Machado overtones or connections. I saw someone wrote we we weren’t far from having the first all-time MLB completely Hispanic lineup paired with a Hispanic manager. We’d have to bench Timmy, though. Moncada Machado Abreu Alonso Jimenez Castillo Yolmer Leury Jay (parents are Cubanos) Lopez/Colome/Herrera Edited January 30, 2019 by caulfield12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiSox Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 17 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: I just don’t think there’s an alternative motive to bringing on Manny’s buddies. Like Alsono is legitimately overpaid and we helped out a division rival by taking him. Throw in Jay and the fact we tried to trade for him last offseason and I think all evidence suggests he’s our preferred target. Now maybe that’s because he’ll likely be cheaper, but it’s really hard to objectively argue against him being the priority. Right, but perhaps the things that matter to Machado are more deliberate and public than the things that matter to Harper. The Sox cant very well acquire Jon Jay and Yonder Alonso all secretively and under-the-radar the same way they could simply offer Bryce Harper even more money. We all know the Sox are onto both and have been since the beginning of the off-season. I simply think that the way we felt in the early part of December, that Bryce Harper was the primary target, is closest to how the the Sox feel now and have felt throughout the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 18 hours ago, fathom said: According to Hahn, Alonso wasn’t even considered until after the winter meetings. Sounds like it came together in 24 hours. Right after he saw Rosenthal's tweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roughneck Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 26 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: Right after he saw Rosenthal's tweet. Hahn's hitting up Rosenthal in the DMs like "That was a good idea, bro. What do you think it would take for Manny to sign?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) Edited January 31, 2019 by Sleepy Harold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hombre Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said: Padres getting used to drive up Harper’s price too lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Just now, Bad Hombre said: Padres getting used to drive up Harper’s price too lol Or you know....they actually sign him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Just now, Tony said: So all the sudden, in late January, the Padres decided they have $250 million to spend? I’m not sure I buy it, but then again, that franchise is bad as the Sox, so who knows. They signed Hosmer around this time so it's happened before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Okay. Okay. Uhhhh okay. I have no idea what’s going on here actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hombre Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Baron said: Or you know....they actually sign him Sorry but I can’t imagine Harper or Machado signing with San Diego to play 81 games in the ballpark where HR’s go to die. Not to mention they have to deal with the dodgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Bad Hombre said: Sorry but I can’t imagine Harper or Machado signing with San Diego to play 81 games in the ballpark where HR’s go to die. Not to mention they have to deal with the dodgers. You know what they probably do have though? Cash. Which is why their owners are meeting with Boras. It's kind of nice seeing a team serious about going after these players. Edited January 31, 2019 by Baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hombre Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Baron said: You know what they probably do have though? Cash. Which is why their owners are meeting with Boras. It's kind of nice seeing a team serious about going after these players. No doubt. Hopefully this gets the ball rolling, and we finally get some signings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 I would be more worried about the Padres if they hadn't signed Hosmer. It's hard to envision a relatively small market team having 2 massive contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 If the Pads think they can afford a Harper they almost for sure will be in the mix for a Machado then. Thats if they aren’t being used here to drive up the money. Kinda feeling like they are legit though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Arctic cold hits Chicago and Philadelphia. Free agents meet with San Diego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Baron said: You know what they probably do have though? Cash. Which is why their owners are meeting with Boras. It's kind of nice seeing a team serious about going after these players. https://www.gaslampball.com/2019/1/22/18192839/a-look-into-the-padres-finances-has-opened-a-rats-nest-of-questions-ron-fowler-please-dont-be-evil Ummmm...not really. Almost 10% of their budget each year goes to paying down debt and stadium renovations. $144 million to Hosmer, big salary for Myers and $27.5 still this year on paying off bad deals from 2024-15 cycle. Their franchise is worth roughly $800 million less than the Sox. I would venture to say that any SoxTalk poster would have a difficult time arguing how the Padres could be in a better position financially than the White Sox...at least with Philly, we KNOW they have the ability to meet or exceed our spending on just one huge contract. SD, not so much. Edited January 31, 2019 by caulfield12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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