54 minutes ago, bmags said:

I generally have a rule that the longer the period between first learning about a trade and it not executing the more likely its dead. I’d put odds this occurs pretty low.

Sadly, the one I remember taking forever was the Shields trade.  It was rumored for like week.  There was enough time before the trade for Keith Law to write a whole column advising the White Sox not to do it.  In that column, a scout said, if he were eligible, He Who Shall Not Be Named would be 1-1 in the draft.

So, some trades are rumored for a while and still happen.  

I also would not put Bush in this trade.

I need help because I don't know quite whyat to make of this about Pederson. Check his splits on Baseball Ref. Now we all know he's terrible against lefties but I ended up checking his stats in the batting order since the NL has pitchers hitting. Turns out he hits best in the lineup when batting either 1st or 8th.  Both of those spots revolve around the pitcher either preceding him or following him.

That's the part that I don't know what to make of. I generally have my reservations about NL players transitioning to the AL  so this concerns me. Can anyone spin this in a positive way? Maybe fangraphs has something good about players who hit better either before or after the pitcher ?

34 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I need help because I don't know quite whyat to make of this about Pederson. Check his splits on Baseball Ref. Now we all know he's terrible against lefties but I ended up checking his stats in the batting order since the NL has pitchers hitting. Turns out he hits best in the lineup when batting either 1st or 8th.  Both of those spots revolve around the pitcher either preceding him or following him.

That's the part that I don't know what to make of. I generally have my reservations about NL players transitioning to the AL  so this concerns me. Can anyone spin this in a positive way? Maybe fangraphs has something good about players who hit better either before or after the pitcher ?

Figure out a way to keep Engel batting 9th? He's equivalent to a pitcher, right? Hahaha

1 hour ago, South Sider said:

Get Joc, get him over 30 HRs per year, keep him at CF, then trade him during the trade deadline 2020 and cash in baby.

Losing Bush would suck but there's some real potential ROI here. Could snag a prospect better than Bush if everything goes right. 

Except we might actually (believe it or not!!) be competing for a playoff spot at mid season that year.

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

  (Waiting for the caveat about Derek Jeter's 55 errors at Greensboro in 1993, lol.)

Yeah, it is best to give up on him.  No way a kid in rookie ball could improve defensively. 

1 hour ago, Steve9347 said:

The state of the White Sox is freaking out over Joc Pederson. Sigh. 

Two months of excruciating whale watching has numbed everyone. I dont think anyone is freaking out about anything anymore.

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, this is the same argument that other teams make for not giving up draft picks to sign the likes of an AJ Pollock.

That said, if you could have a 2nd round draft pick (or let's even throw out a name, Steele Walker)...wouldn't you rather trade Bush than Walker or a 2nd round pick?

No matter how impressive he was last year, has he really elevated his value THAT much based on one short-season of baseball?

Hahah.  Maybe it isn't rational, in fact it probably isn't, but I would much prefer to trade Walker.  Bush is something the system needs.  A young, high ceiling player, and an infielder to boot.  Walker, in my opinion, is completely redundant in the Sox system.  His ceiling isn't as high, and there are other guys in the system with similar skills that are either further along, or have higher ceilings.  

8 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

Hahah.  Maybe it isn't rational, in fact it probably isn't, but I would much prefer to trade Walker.  Bush is something the system needs.  A young, high ceiling player, and an infielder to boot.  Walker, in my opinion, is completely redundant in the Sox system.  His ceiling isn't as high, and there are other guys in the system with similar skills that are either further along, or have higher ceilings.  

And that's with him being described as having the most MLB-ready bat of all the collegiate players...I think it's a little of the Jeremy Reed syndrome, he's going to be solid all-around (or maybe Gonzalez) but nothing he do will amaze you unless you watch him day in, day out, for an entire season.

He's also likely not to stick in CF, eventually, although only time will tell on that front.  Corner outfielders that only hit 15-20 homers per year on pretty much a dime a dozen, unless they have the overall hitting skills of a Benintendi.

Edited January 21, 20197 yr by caulfield12

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I need help because I don't know quite whyat to make of this about Pederson. Check his splits on Baseball Ref. Now we all know he's terrible against lefties but I ended up checking his stats in the batting order since the NL has pitchers hitting. Turns out he hits best in the lineup when batting either 1st or 8th.  Both of those spots revolve around the pitcher either preceding him or following him.

That's the part that I don't know what to make of. I generally have my reservations about NL players transitioning to the AL  so this concerns me. Can anyone spin this in a positive way? Maybe fangraphs has something good about players who hit better either before or after the pitcher ?

I don't think you can look too much into it.

Batting 8th --> Well that's actually the worst spot in the order to bat since the opposing pitcher can do whatever he wants to the hitter since the pitcher is on deck and is an easy out.

Batting 1st is a completely different situation. Have the best boppers on deck, getting more at bats, trying to set the table. 

9 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

I don't think you can look too much into it.

Batting 8th --> Well that's actually the worst spot in the order to bat since the opposing pitcher can do whatever he wants to the hitter since the pitcher is on deck and is an easy out.

Batting 1st is a completely different situation. Have the best boppers on deck, getting more at bats, trying to set the table. 

You'd have to break out the advanced stats, but probably means he's getting more fastballs over the plate in the 8th spot to retire him before the pitcher comes up...or trying to avoid walks in order to get the pitcher to lead off an inning.

With the 1st spot, he's a lot more vigilant about taking walks and working deep into counts, but I'm not sure if that's borne out by the individual stats with Pederson in terms of more power hitting 8th or 1st, OBP, etc.

A lot of leadoff hitters get fastballs because no pitcher wants to walk the top of the order and set up the big inning, especially starting out a game.  That said, it's not like he's 1980's Vince Coleman or Tim Raines and a threat to run wild on the basepaths.

Edited January 21, 20197 yr by caulfield12

If the Sox were to acquire Pederson and sign Machado, the lineup would not only be competitive, but it would finally have good Left Handed balance, with fewer strike outs and very respectable On Base %. Look at these career OBP stats for those players:

Jay .352  .350 (Vs. RHP)

Pederson. .339  .355 (Vs. RHP)

Alonso .336   .346 (Vs. RHP)

Machado  .335. .333 (Vs. RHP) Manny hits RH Pitching as well as he hits LH Pitching

With Eloy added to that lineup, you have 5 new starters, who were not part of last year's debacle. 

The Bullpen has already been "fixed". Now, add one more #2 or #3 starter and you have a team which should be able to compete, in our weak division, which is incidentally predominantly filled with RH starting pitching. If Manny doesn't want to come to Chicago, because he doesn't want to wait until the farm system produces a winning team, this should be encouraging to him. Once Robert, Kopech, Cease and a few more prized prospects join the team, in 2020, they could be very formidable.

Edited January 21, 20197 yr by Lillian

This is interesting. My guess is this is the alternative to Pollock?

A Pederson for Marte swap makes alot of sense for both teams.

1 minute ago, BlackSox13 said:

A Pederson for Marte swap makes alot of sense for both teams.

Why the Pirates?

7 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said:

A Pederson for Marte swap makes alot of sense for both teams.

Why?

Pirates’ fans would mutiny on the Clemente Bridge...

Edited January 21, 20197 yr by caulfield12

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Pirates’ fans would mutiny on the Clemente Bridge...

Why?

40 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

This is interesting. My guess is this is the alternative to Pollock?

I’m thinking this is more to put pressure on Pollock to sign. 

 

37 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said:

A Pederson for Marte swap makes alot of sense for both teams.

So looking into contracts, I disagree. Pederson would be a cheaper deal for two years, but pirates have 3 years control for marte for only 32-33 mill. I don’t see them going after that short term budget assistance. Doesn’t feel like them.

41 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said:

A Pederson for Marte swap makes alot of sense for both teams.

I'd much rather have Marte.  How about a 3-way where Sox get Marte, Pirates get Pederson and LA gets better in other areas?  Plus...Marte WAS in one of those photos with Machado........

Hey man flipping colome + for Pederson I can get behind.

Sox do not need to trade for Pederson, although he would help. But they do not NEED to. They certainly do not need a blister prone pitcher in Hill regardless of how much salary they take on. But he also would help if they could keep him healthy. My point is the Dodgers need to trade to shed salary. Dodgers need this trade a lot more than Sox do. So it sounds pretty dumb to be putting a Bush or a Colome or an Abreu in this trade. Fulmer yes, as he seems to need a change of scenery and has only one option left and we do have a lot of pitching depth in the minors. Hahn is in the driver's seat here. Don't give in and trade more value than we have to.

2 minutes ago, xSouthsider2 said:

Sox do not need to trade for Pederson, although he would help. But they do not NEED to. They certainly do not need a blister prone pitcher in Hill regardless of how much salary they take on. But he also would help if they could keep him healthy. My point is the Dodgers need to trade to shed salary. Dodgers need this trade a lot more than Sox do. So it sounds pretty dumb to be putting a Bush or a Colome or an Abreu in this trade. Fulmer yes, as he seems to need a change of scenery and has only one option left and we do have a lot of pitching depth in the minors. Hahn is in the driver's seat here. Don't give in and trade more value than we have to.

Depends on the price but I agree, I'm fine with Palka playing RF (or LF depending on where they want Eloy).

Pederson would be a good addition to be a bridge until Robert and others are ready.  If a trade for him only involves guys like Fulmer and Bummer, I'm more than okay with that.

If the Sox do sign Machado and then trade for Pederson, the lineup looks a lot better for 2019.