Just now, T R U said:

Im just struggling to believe the Dodgers would trade Joc Pederson for the handful of scrubs that have been reported. Practically giving him away.

They wouldn't, the reports are just guesses from twitter randos.

Just now, T R U said:

Im just struggling to believe the Dodgers would trade Joc Pederson for the handful of scrubs that have been reported. Practically giving him away.

Two years of control.  They just signed a player that displaces him unless they trade Verdugo.  Dodgers aren't exactly in a position of leverage.

Plus....Fulmer, Bummer and Laz isn't nothing.  But I do find it at least mildly surprising a team like the Indians wouldn't beat that. 

Just now, iamshack said:

Not sure about trades, but for FA signings, Clubs are technically not allowed to announce a signing that is contingent on a player passing a physical prior to passing said physical. 

They don't technically announce it, but it does get leaked.

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I mean...technically it hasn't.  At least a few people have said Fulmer/Bummer/3rd piece or Laz.  Those names have been rumored for a few days now.  But yah, no one super credible is saying that.  Though raBBit seems to know more than he's shared, and seems awfully confident lately....which may or may not be related to Joc/Manny. Then you also have WSD emoji and Chili's comments...

I mean, okay, but the sentiment here is the sox are sitting on it and want to announce it on their time. More likely is the deal isn't completed as to why it is not announced.

8 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

https://www.fantasypros.com/mlb/news/199125/joc-pederson-trade-not-close-to-happening-right-now.php

this is in regards to the rosenthal tweet yesterday. that can change in a moment.

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

They don't technically announce it, but it does get leaked.

Absolutely. In this context, however, it sounded like folks were asking about an announcement coming from the Club at Soxfest.

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Two years of control.  They just signed a player that displaces him unless they trade Verdugo.  Dodgers aren't exactly in a position of leverage.

Plus....Fulmer, Bummer and Laz isn't nothing.  But I do find it at least mildly surprising a team like the Indians wouldn't beat that. 

Fulmer is no good, Bummer is meh, and Laz Rivera is a 24 year old that hasn't played above A ball.

For a 2 War player with 2 years of control? I would be pleasantly shocked if this happens.

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Two years of control.  They just signed a player that displaces him unless they trade Verdugo.  Dodgers aren't exactly in a position of leverage.

Plus....Fulmer, Bummer and Laz isn't nothing.  But I do find it at least mildly surprising a team like the Indians wouldn't beat that. 

800+ OPS CF at only $5 million with 2 years control..... With those three names we have listed I'd say at least 25 other teams could get in line to beat that.  

Would you rather the secret deal is Harper + Machado vs Pedersen + Machado? 

1 minute ago, T R U said:

Fulmer is no good, Bummer is meh, and Laz Rivera is a 24 year old that hasn't played above A ball.

For a 2 War player with 2 years of control? I would be pleasantly shocked if this happens.

They get twelve years of control of two major league ready relievers. Fulmer obviously has not been good the last couple years, but it would be far from surprising to see him be a very good major league reliever.  It is in there somewhere.  Bummer is meh, I agree, but he's cheap and he's serviceable.  I agree now is the right time to trade Rivera from the Sox perspective, but he will all of 2019 as a 24 year old...coming off an .850 OPS season.  He is a decent guy to take a chance on for LAD.  Definitely one of the Sox top 25 or so prospects. 

Joc is a valuable player with a very affordable salary.  But if the Dodgers are committed to trading him prior to spring training, that's going to limit their options.  How many teams are there that plan to contend this year and next (and so would be content on acquiring a 2-year control player), have a need at outfielder, and are willing to take on $5 million more in payroll at this point.  Contending teams with limited payroll flexibility probably plan to use what remaining resources they have at the trade deadline.  So it's possible that the rumored Sox offer is the best offer they've gotten.

5 minutes ago, toasty said:

Would you rather the secret deal is Harper + Machado vs Pedersen + Machado? 

Duh, good sir. That is unless people dont want to be tied down that much to two players, but I dont care about that.

16 minutes ago, T R U said:

Fulmer is no good, Bummer is meh, and Laz Rivera is a 24 year old that hasn't played above A ball.

For a 2 War player with 2 years of control? I would be pleasantly shocked if this happens.

That's 3 top 20 organizational prospects. There's no high end guys, but there won't be high end guys for someone like Joc Pederson, especially when your bent over a barrel and almost have to get rid of him.

Edited January 25, 20197 yr by mqr

4 minutes ago, mqr said:

That's 3 top 20 organizational prospects. There's no high end guys, but there won't be high end guys for someone like Joc Pederson, especially when your bent over a barrel and almost have to get rid of him.

I think people overestimate the Dodgers being "bent over a barrel." I believe Pederson makes $5mil this year. That is pretty insignificant and can be moved at any time. 

4 minutes ago, mqr said:

That's 3 top 20 organizational prospects. There's no high end guys, but there won't be high end guys for someone like Joc Pederson, especially when your bent over a barrel and almost have to get rid of him.

Rivera is a 24 year old in A Ball. The other two are replacement level at best. 

 

If Rick Hahn had to replace what Bummer and Fulmer provide, he could do it quickly and cheaply. Pederson is a bargain at $5 million.  To say the almost have to get rid of him isn't really accurate. To say they are bent over a barrel really isn't accurate. A lot of teams can use a guy who plays multiple OF positions, makes $5 million a year, hits left handed with power, provides 2-3 WAR, and is entering his prime age. 

I think they are trying to get some traction on the Harper front going.

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Rivera is a 24 year old in A Ball. The other two are replacement level at best. 

 

If Rick Hahn had to replace what Bummer and Fulmer provide, he could do it quickly and cheaply. Pederson is a bargain at $5 million.  To say the almost have to get rid of him isn't really accurate. To say they are bent over a barrel really isn't accurate. A lot of teams can use a guy who plays multiple OF positions, makes $5 million a year, hits left handed with power, provides 2-3 WAR, and is entering his prime age. 

The only way it makes sense is if the Dodgers really see something in Bummer or Fulmer. Or feel that they somehow fit a need.

12 minutes ago, mqr said:

That's 3 top 20 organizational prospects. There's no high end guys, but there won't be high end guys for someone like Joc Pederson, especially when your bent over a barrel and almost have to get rid of him.

LOL WHAT? Fulmer would be LUCKY to be top 30 now.  Bummer certainly wouldnt be top 30.  The most valuable piece they are getting is Rivera who would be in our 20-30 range..

10 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

I think people overestimate the Dodgers being "bent over a barrel." I believe Pederson makes $5mil this year. That is pretty insignificant and can be moved at any time. 

Friedman is never over a barrel. He could easily just keep pederson and be fine.

8 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

The only way it makes sense is if the Dodgers really see something in Bummer or Fulmer. Or feel that they somehow fit a need.

I think the need they fit is cheap control.  The Dodgers are going to have recurring luxury tax issues for the foreseeable future.  Getting more major league ready talent to fill in the roster is probably important to them. 

I do agree that the rumored return makes a lot more sense for the Sox than the Dodgers, however. But I personally wouldn't give up much more than the rumored return if I were the Sox for a guy that isn't a very good CF, can't hit lefties, and has only two years of control.  

22 minutes ago, mqr said:

That's 3 top 20 organizational prospects. There's no high end guys, but there won't be high end guys for someone like Joc Pederson, especially when your bent over a barrel and almost have to get rid of him.

That's 1 top 20 guy if you still believe in Fulmer and want to assign him a prospect status. 

To evaluate the rumored return, you have to consider the fact that not everyone is a White Sox fan who hates every young player that has had an unsuccessful run in the majors. First-round picks who are in good health but with control problems have been the centerpiece of many a deal. And Bummer at this point shouldn't be considered a player without any value. Sox jerked him around last year just to get a non-return for Xavier Cedeno but Bummer pitched well in MLB and AAA. Lefty relievers that aren't horrible always have value and in this case he still has minor league options, which would be of interest to the Dodgers. Laz Rivera is pretty good for the third piece of a deal like this.

I would like this trade for the Sox but it's not hard at all to imagine the Dodgers winning it. Pederson isn't far removed from a bust of a season and there are questions about whether he can play defensively in CF or every day as a hitter (needs platooned). Fulmer putting it together at all makes it very plausible that he alone is more valuable than Pederson over the period of time that the teams control the players. 6 years of solid relieving from Bummer could make it close as well. Rivera isn't likely to be some kind of star but also seems to have a good shot to come up and be a nice roleplayer some day.

4 minutes ago, Jake said:

To evaluate the rumored return, you have to consider the fact that not everyone is a White Sox fan who hates every young player that has had an unsuccessful run in the majors. First-round picks who are in good health but with control problems have been the centerpiece of many a deal. And Bummer at this point shouldn't be considered a player without any value. Sox jerked him around last year just to get a non-return for Xavier Cedeno but Bummer pitched well in MLB and AAA. Lefty relievers that aren't horrible always have value and in this case he still has minor league options, which would be of interest to the Dodgers. Laz Rivera is pretty good for the third piece of a deal like this.

I would like this trade for the Sox but it's not hard at all to imagine the Dodgers winning it. Pederson isn't far removed from a bust of a season and there are questions about whether he can play defensively in CF or every day as a hitter (needs platooned). Fulmer putting it together at all makes it very plausible that he alone is more valuable than Pederson over the period of time that the teams control the players. 6 years of solid relieving from Bummer could make it close as well. Rivera isn't likely to be some kind of star but also seems to have a good shot to come up and be a nice roleplayer some day.

This. 

4 minutes ago, Jake said:

To evaluate the rumored return, you have to consider the fact that not everyone is a White Sox fan who hates every young player that has had an unsuccessful run in the majors. First-round picks who are in good health but with control problems have been the centerpiece of many a deal. And Bummer at this point shouldn't be considered a player without any value. Sox jerked him around last year just to get a non-return for Xavier Cedeno but Bummer pitched well in MLB and AAA. Lefty relievers that aren't horrible always have value and in this case he still has minor league options, which would be of interest to the Dodgers. Laz Rivera is pretty good for the third piece of a deal like this.

I would like this trade for the Sox but it's not hard at all to imagine the Dodgers winning it. Pederson isn't far removed from a bust of a season and there are questions about whether he can play defensively in CF or every day as a hitter (needs platooned). Fulmer putting it together at all makes it very plausible that he alone is more valuable than Pederson over the period of time that the teams control the players. 6 years of solid relieving from Bummer could make it close as well. Rivera isn't likely to be some kind of star but also seems to have a good shot to come up and be a nice roleplayer some day.

While it's possible to see the Dodgers getting more out of Fulmer than us, it's also entirely possible to see the White Sox putting Fulmer on waivers in a couple months. He has 1 minor league option remaining to cover this season, and if he doesn't show anything early this year he's wasting a roster spot. 

11 minutes ago, Jake said:

To evaluate the rumored return, you have to consider the fact that not everyone is a White Sox fan who hates every young player that has had an unsuccessful run in the majors. First-round picks who are in good health but with control problems have been the centerpiece of many a deal. And Bummer at this point shouldn't be considered a player without any value. Sox jerked him around last year just to get a non-return for Xavier Cedeno but Bummer pitched well in MLB and AAA. Lefty relievers that aren't horrible always have value and in this case he still has minor league options, which would be of interest to the Dodgers. Laz Rivera is pretty good for the third piece of a deal like this.

I would like this trade for the Sox but it's not hard at all to imagine the Dodgers winning it. Pederson isn't far removed from a bust of a season and there are questions about whether he can play defensively in CF or every day as a hitter (needs platooned). Fulmer putting it together at all makes it very plausible that he alone is more valuable than Pederson over the period of time that the teams control the players. 6 years of solid relieving from Bummer could make it close as well. Rivera isn't likely to be some kind of star but also seems to have a good shot to come up and be a nice roleplayer some day.

How often does a team get 6 years of relieving out of one guy? Bummer is easily replaceable. He will have his moments. He will also have his gas can moments. Fulmer has been horrible. If the Dodger can teach him to throw pitches not right down the heart of the plate that the opposition will actually swing at, good for them. Rivera is pretty old to be an A Ball prospect. 

You would have to squint pretty hard, and ignore a lot of things to think the Dodgers would get the best of this deal. Joc is no superstar, but he's at an age where he should be getting to be his best. But Fulmer putting it together seems a longshot. An average reliever like Bummer pitching for the Dodgers for 6 seasons, seems a longshot, Rivera being half as good as he looked playing against guys much younger than him, vs. more age appropriate assignments, seems a bit much. Joc Pederson putting up a 2-3 WAR seems way more reasonable than any of the other three coming close to fruition. 

I think if this trade happens, the Sox are going to have to give up more.