This trip to KC is critical. We're currently the equivalent of 2.7-10.8 (let's call it 3-11). I'm much less worried about where we are as I am about how we got here. The only distraction from the crappy pitching has been the clown show that fills out the lineup card.

Horrible lineup for the second game yesterday, and we don't need Ozzie to tell us so.  Unfortunately, I don't see any managerial firings during the season.  Renteria has proven that he can't put together a quality lineup, even with a 30-man roster.  Nicky Delmonico has more at bats than Grandal.

Speaking of firing, Cooper needs to do something about the starting pitching.  How can four of the five starting pitchers look so bad?  They either had no control or just threw BP fastballs.

The White Sox had 2 total walks in the double header and they continue to get themselves out.  Until that changes, I don't know.

How does Eloy or Grandal not PH yesterday.

I believe I saw that Nomar is in Schaumburg, why, work it out in Cleveland.

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

The White Sox had 2 total walks in the double header and they continue to get themselves out.  Until that changes, I don't know.

How does Eloy or Grandal not PH yesterday.

I believe I saw that Nomar is in Schaumburg, why, work it out in Cleveland.

 

 

 

Eloy was not eligible yesterday since he hadn't cleared concussion protocol.  I thought Grandal should have hit for Leury in the 9th. 

Great point on walks

Ozzie rotated Mark Kotsay and Andruw Jones instead of wanting Jim Thome. Him questioning lineups is laughable after that circus. 

18 minutes ago, Baron said:

Ozzie rotated Mark Kotsay and Andruw Jones instead of wanting Jim Thome. Him questioning lineups is laughable after that circus. 

Ozzie influencing the team to not bring back Thome should keep him from ever managing the Sox again.  He was right about last night's puke-worthy lineup, but pretty much anyone with an ounce of baseball knowledge would see how bad it was.

13 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Ozzie would have gone ballistic on someone calling him out like this.  Still a childish pile of crap after all these years.   

But he isn't wrong.....

5 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

But he isn't wrong.....

Ozzie is campaigning to return to the White Sox manager job. There is no way that should happen. If the FO decides to make a change, it really needs to make change. They haven't gone through this rebuild to go backwards. Hiring Ozzie would be an act of desperation. The situation isn't desperate - it just needs to be addressed. But if they hire a new manager, that manager should have a say on who is on coaching staff. If that means Coop is to go, then he leaves.

Ricky seems like a great guy and I love the concept of Spanish speaking managers.  That said...his lineup construction is pathetic.

43 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

But he isn't wrong.....

He was born wrong.

10 hours ago, skooch said:

This trip to KC is critical. We're currently the equivalent of 2.7-10.8 (let's call it 3-11). I'm much less worried about where we are as I am about how we got here. The only distraction from the crappy pitching has been the clown show that fills out the lineup card.

This just isn't how statistics work and I've seen it cited 100's of times so it's not you.

You can't extrapolate out wins and losses in the same way you'd do with counting stats. Reason being, those 5 games are still decided by the exact same amount of small outcomes as they would be in a 162 game season. The reason you play 162 is to work out a lot of the noise that can come in smaller baseball samples. This is good news though, because these 5 games have taught us nothing more about a team or season than 5 games would in a 162 game season. It's practically meaningless when trying to determine the true talent level of a team. It's no different than any other random 5 game series throughout a season, it's merely been amplified due to the timing (first of the year) and the season being shortened. That means the Sox are still the same team you thought before the season started, they just haven't had sequencing work in their favor.

Also, in addition, due to the playoff structure, the Sox really need to just beat the teams that they are supposed to and they likely get in. They could struggle with good teams and beat bad ones and they would like eek out a playoff spot. I hate watching bad baseball - which is really where my anger lies here - and that's why I've been frustrate. The same overthrows, errors, lack of execution and etc that we've seen under this regime for a while are happening. When Madrigal gets up and Mazara back this weekendish, I think everyone will feel a lot better. It would be better to not be 1-4, but at the same time it hasn't changed a whole lot.

Edited July 29, 20205 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

15 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Ozzie would have gone ballistic on someone calling him out like this.  Still a childish pile of crap after all these years.   

Agreed; Ozzie would rightfully be pissed and say you're not in the clubhouse so STFU. That said, it's his job to now do things like this so while I agree with you 100%, I don't think he's wrong for doing his job.

I like Ozzie, but I feel like a lot of Sox fans have very rosey memory of his time as manager at the end. Ozzie was unprofessional and couldn't have left on a more sour note.

After 05 Ozzie also only managed to make the playoffs once (and needed a tiebreaker game to do it), where we won a grand total of 1 game. Fire Ricky but seriously how is Ozzie the only name some people can come up with as a replacement. 

I think the conclusion from this thread is neither Ozzie nor Ricky are fit to manage this team.

I'd say to hire an analytically-inclined manager, such as Baldelli, but the organization is not analytically inclined, so why would they do that?

White Sox Fans: I want Ozzie to be the next manager!
Jerry: No, we have Ozzie at home
Ozzie at home:

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This just isn't how statistics work and I've seen it cited 100's of times so it's not you.

You can't extrapolate out wins and losses in the same way you'd do with counting stats. Reason being, those 5 games are still decided by the exact same amount of small outcomes as they would be in a 162 game season. The reason you play 162 is to work out a lot of the noise that can come in smaller baseball samples. This is good news though, because these 5 games have taught us nothing more about a team or season than 5 games would in a 162 game season. It's practically meaningless when trying to determine the true talent level of a team. It's no different than any other random 5 game series throughout a season, it's merely been amplified due to the timing (first of the year) and the season being shortened. That means the Sox are still the same team you thought before the season started, they just haven't had sequencing work in their favor.

Also, in addition, due to the playoff structure, the Sox really need to just beat the teams that they are supposed to and they likely get in. They could struggle with good teams and beat bad ones and they would like eek out a playoff spot. I hate watching bad baseball - which is really where my anger lies here - and that's why I've been frustrate. The same overthrows, errors, lack of execution and etc that we've seen under this regime for a while are happening. When Madrigal gets up and Mazara back this weekendish, I think everyone will feel a lot better. It would be better to not be 1-4, but at the same time it hasn't changed a whole lot.

That's what bothers me the most. It's inexcusable. These guys are not developing in certain aspects of their game (plate discipline, fielding), so what's the point of having a coaching staff?

I wonder what Rick Rentaria thought in 2010 when Ozzie put Mark Kotsay in the 5-hole with Jim Thome now DH'ing in Minnesota?

I'm sure he meant it differently, but 

"It's just baseball" -Rick Renteria

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This just isn't how statistics work and I've seen it cited 100's of times so it's not you.

You can't extrapolate out wins and losses in the same way you'd do with counting stats. Reason being, those 5 games are still decided by the exact same amount of small outcomes as they would be in a 162 game season. The reason you play 162 is to work out a lot of the noise that can come in smaller baseball samples. This is good news though, because these 5 games have taught us nothing more about a team or season than 5 games would in a 162 game season. It's practically meaningless when trying to determine the true talent level of a team. It's no different than any other random 5 game series throughout a season, it's merely been amplified due to the timing (first of the year) and the season being shortened. That means the Sox are still the same team you thought before the season started, they just haven't had sequencing work in their favor.

Also, in addition, due to the playoff structure, the Sox really need to just beat the teams that they are supposed to and they likely get in. They could struggle with good teams and beat bad ones and they would like eek out a playoff spot. I hate watching bad baseball - which is really where my anger lies here - and that's why I've been frustrate. The same overthrows, errors, lack of execution and etc that we've seen under this regime for a while are happening. When Madrigal gets up and Mazara back this weekendish, I think everyone will feel a lot better. It would be better to not be 1-4, but at the same time it hasn't changed a whole lot.

Agreed - What people are ignoring is a 3 game winning streak is also the equivalent of a 8 game winning streak, so the good and bad is magnified more here and you have a smaller sample size that a lopsided streak one way or the other may not balance out as nicely in a 60 game season (vs. a 162 game season) but right now the stat people are too focusing on the down (because of where we are).

I would say the same thing if we were 4-1; It is still just 4-1, it isn't the same as being 11-3, it just isn't.  

44 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I'm sure he meant it differently, but 

"It's just baseball" -Rick Renteria

I'm getting SERIOUS ROBIN VENTURA VIBES.

The clubhouse doesn't need a fun babysitter that lets the kids eat ice cream and run in the street.  It needs a firm hand that is respected and who puts the time in to put his team in the best position to win on a nightly basis.

Get.  Rid.  Of.  This.  Clown.

1 hour ago, Butter Parque said:

That's what bothers me the most. It's inexcusable. These guys are not developing in certain aspects of their game (plate discipline, fielding), so what's the point of having a coaching staff?

Sox have a top 5 OPS in baseball; their offense/plate discipline has been fine. Sequencing hasn't been on their side so far, but there offense has been great.

It really all boils down to a simple question:  Is it the organization's priority to try to win as many games as possible?  Many of the things they do -- from giving Abreu a well-above market "loyalty" contract to abiding Renteria's objectively dumb lineup construction -- suggest that the answer to that question is clearly no.

6 hours ago, NWINFan said:

Ozzie is campaigning to return to the White Sox manager job.

If he is doing that, then he is the dumbest man alive. He's not ever going to manage again. Geez. We are in an era there was a violent protest held in Grant Park not even two weeks ago. Chicago like the rest of the country is ON EDGE. The world is ALL about PC and he can't be PC. If he gets named manager, immediately everyone will dig out his statements of the past, put them on Twitter and the Sox will have to cancel/fire him in ONE DAY. ... Maybe he's trying to be a good analyst on TV. 

Edited July 29, 20205 yr by greg775

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Sox have a top 5 OPS in baseball; their offense/plate discipline has been fine. Sequencing hasn't been on their side so far, but there offense has been great.

They are going to hit, I'm pretty confident of that if they stay healthy. No doubt this team has a zillion 5 home run games in them with so many guys going for the fences as is the desired approach these days.