1 hour ago, beautox said:

Maybe something like this

Gonzales + Seager for Kopech, Lopez, Madrigal and Rutherford/Gonzalez 

Seriously? Kopech and Madrigal and more for Gonzales and a negative value contract? Grosssss

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

He’d cost us all our major chips and IMO he represents more of a luxury than a need.

Probably some redundancy w/Bummer but definitely adds flexibility. Agreed Brewers will ask for the moon.

 

7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Resources are limited though and we should not waste them on lateral moves.  Seager costs us $18M next year and money that could be used towards RF.  The prospects you’re talking about giving up could be two major pieces for a legit TOR starter this offseason.  

Personally, if a guy like DeGrom isn’t available this coming offseason, I’d rather just keep Kopech & Madrigal, sign someone like Stroman to a 4/$80M deal, and acquire the best stop-gap RF that can buy us a year until hopefully a Cespedes or Colas is ready (assuming we sign one of them). 

Stroman is NOT getting 4/80 coming off injury. He is either getting a prove it contract or a 2-3 year deal with options added. I like him a lot, but short starting pitchers normally fade as they get older and FB diminishes

Just now, Flash said:

Probably some redundancy w/Bummer but definitely adds flexibility. Agreed Brewers will ask for the moon.

 

To me, it’s not necessarily about redundancy but more around price.  You can never have enough bullpen weapons come playoff time and that value would be factored into the cost of a Hader.

I'm expecting a nothing burger at deadline, which might be okay. Too many teams still believe they have a chance, so few sellers and not many obvious fits. I'd make a run at Lynn and dangle Kopech (I'm less sanguine about Kopech than most here) and also try to improve RF situation but both areas might be better addressed in offseason.

11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Resources are limited though and we should not waste them on lateral moves.  Seager costs us $18M next year and money that could be used towards RF.  The prospects you’re talking about giving up could be two major pieces for a legit TOR starter this offseason.  

Personally, if a guy like DeGrom isn’t available this coming offseason, I’d rather just keep Kopech & Madrigal, sign someone like Stroman to a 4/$80M deal, and acquire the best stop-gap RF that can buy us a year until hopefully a Cespedes or Colas is ready (assuming we sign one both of them). 

FTFY

I don't see the sox signing Springer in the off-season, I think we're closer to the Pederson/Brantley level of move for RF unless Mazara goes on a complete tear this month and into the post-season.

I don't see the mets selling at the deadline or in the off-season, new owner is going to come in and try to make a big splash in the biggest market.

3 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Stroman is NOT getting 4/80 coming off injury. He is either getting a prove it contract or a 2-3 year deal with options added. I like him a lot, but short starting pitchers normally fade as they get older and FB diminishes

Oh shit, I didn’t realize he got hurt, thought he had simply opted-out due to COVID.  Ignore the dollar amounts I quoted then.  I’d still be willing to take him on a shorter-term contract though if he only costs money and no elite options are available via trade.

Stay the course and sign a pitcher this winter when they only cost cash. 

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Oh shit, I didn’t realize he got hurt, thought he had simply opted-out due to COVID.  Ignore the dollar amounts I quoted then.  I’d still be willing to take him on a shorter-term contract though if he only costs money and no elite options are available via trade.

Yeah, partially tore his left calf and then decided to opt out rather than try to finish his rehab. He should be fine, but I think with covid contracts, he probably gets like a 2/40 or 3/55 contact with some type of option structure added

3 minutes ago, beautox said:

FTFY

I don't see the sox signing Springer in the off-season, I think we're closer to the Pederson/Brantley level of move for RF unless Mazara goes on a complete tear this month and into the post-season.

I don't see the mets selling at the deadline or in the off-season, new owner is going to come in and try to make a big splash in the biggest market.

I think we only sign one of Cespedes or Colas given the funds we have left.  To me Yoelkis is the get as he’d add plus defense in RF whereas Colas sounds fairly questionable with the glove.  Either way, adding either one of those guys changes the long-term thought process when it comes to RF.

I'm warming to the idea of making a trade for Lynn.  The problem is young pitchers have a learning curve.  It took Gio four years in the majors to really figure it out.  Cease is still not a sure thing after a year and a half.  If we are counting on Dunning based on four really good innings the other day and his pre-injury record...will he really be better than 2020 Cease next year? Won't we need a consistent top 4 to compete in playoffs and next year pennant race?  Will Kopech come up and be ace ready right off?  Even Chris Sale took a year and a half in the bullpen before he was great.  So let's say Kopech=Sale he likely won't be major force until 2022.  If you bring in Lynn you have a great top three and a very good top four for this year and next year.  You use the 4 and 5 slot plus relief to audition for Lynn's replacement for 2022.  

The other thing to remember is we don't need 8 great starting pitchers.  We need 5.  

In theory for 2022 you have Gio, Cease, Kopech and Kuechel.  So you really only need one more and it seems like we have a  lot to chose from. 

Here's the pool for a trade for Lynn and adding our 2022 fifth starter (or Kuechel replacement).

I tend to be the most optimistic on the board so I'm not ready to give up on Reylo completely yet...but I'm getting pretty close.  I had huge hope for Rodon but the injury thing just seems to make him unlikely to ever fulfill his promise.  

I think Cease has reached the point for me where he is going to be a very good major league pitcher.  He's not there yet but I think 2021 he will make another leap forward. That leaves us with 8 pitchers in our top 25 prospects that all look exciting.  I think you use one of them as the headline of a trade to Texas.  I wouldn't trade Kopech for anything but DeGrom...his upside remains Nolan Ryan and while I like Fry the trade could end up looking real bad.  Dunning is the oldest of the group and showed scintillating stuff the other night.   He might be attractive enough to build a package around.  I would NOT trade Madrigal or Vaughan as I see them as foundational pieces.  I love Collins but it seems the White Sox don't.     So we send Dunning, Reylo, Collins, Rutherford and maybe throw in Elijiah Tatis as a wild card.   

We have so many of the offensive/Defensive parts in place I think we shouldn't wait for ALL the flowers to grow.  I mean really, don't you think that when Fry is done in two years that we will think of Kelly and Crochet about what we think of Cease and Kopech right now?  Trade in some chips Rick Hahn and let's go for it this year.

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 20205 yr by michelangelosmonkey

14 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I'm warming to the idea of making a trade for Lynn.  The problem is young pitchers have a learning curve.  It took Gio four years in the majors to really figure it out.  Cease is still not a sure thing after a year and a half.  If we are counting on Dunning based on four really good innings the other day and his pre-injury record...will he really be better than 2020 Cease next year? Won't we need a consistent top 4 to compete in playoffs and next year pennant race?  Will Kopech come up and be ace ready right off?  Even Chris Sale took a year and a half in the bullpen before he was great.  So let's say Kopech=Sale he likely won't be major force until 2022.  If you bring in Lynn you have a great top three and a very good top four for this year and next year.  You use the 4 and 5 slot plus relief to audition for Fry's replacement for 2022.  

The other thing to remember is we don't need 8 great starting pitchers.  We need 5.  

In theory for 2022 you have Gio, Cease, Kopech and Kuechel.  So you really only need one more and it seems like we have a  lot to chose from. 

Here's the pool for a trade for Fry and adding our 2022 fifth starter (or Kuechel replacement).

I tend to be the most optimistic on the board so I'm not ready to give up on Reylo completely yet...but I'm getting pretty close.  I had huge hope for Rodon but the injury thing just seems to make him unlikely to ever fulfill his promise.  

I think Cease has reached the point for me where he is going to be a very good major league pitcher.  He's not there yet but I think 2021 he will make another leap forward. That leaves us with 8 pitchers in our top 25 prospects that all look exciting.  I think you use one of them as the headline of a trade to Texas.  I wouldn't trade Kopech for anything but DeGrom...his upside remains Nolan Ryan and while I like Fry the trade could end up looking real bad.  Dunning is the oldest of the group and showed scintillating stuff the other night.   He might be attractive enough to build a package around.  I would NOT trade Madrigal or Vaughan as I see them as foundational pieces.  I love Collins but it seems the White Sox don't.     So we send Dunning, Reylo, Collins, Rutherford and maybe throw in Elijiah Tatis as a wild card.   

We have so many of the offensive/Defensive parts in place I think we shouldn't wait for ALL the flowers to grow.  I mean really, don't you think that when Fry is done in two years that we will think of Kelly and Crochet about what we think of Cease and Kopech right now?  Trade in some chips Rick Hahn and let's go for it this year.

 

 

 

Do you mean Lynn vs Fry?

15 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I'm warming to the idea of making a trade for Lynn.  The problem is young pitchers have a learning curve.  It took Gio four years in the majors to really figure it out.  Cease is still not a sure thing after a year and a half.  If we are counting on Dunning based on four really good innings the other day and his pre-injury record...will he really be better than 2020 Cease next year? Won't we need a consistent top 4 to compete in playoffs and next year pennant race?  Will Kopech come up and be ace ready right off?  Even Chris Sale took a year and a half in the bullpen before he was great.  So let's say Kopech=Sale he likely won't be major force until 2022.  If you bring in Lynn you have a great top three and a very good top four for this year and next year.  You use the 4 and 5 slot plus relief to audition for Fry's replacement for 2022.  

The other thing to remember is we don't need 8 great starting pitchers.  We need 5.  

In theory for 2022 you have Gio, Cease, Kopech and Kuechel.  So you really only need one more and it seems like we have a  lot to chose from. 

Here's the pool for a trade for Fry and adding our 2022 fifth starter (or Kuechel replacement).

I tend to be the most optimistic on the board so I'm not ready to give up on Reylo completely yet...but I'm getting pretty close.  I had huge hope for Rodon but the injury thing just seems to make him unlikely to ever fulfill his promise.  

I think Cease has reached the point for me where he is going to be a very good major league pitcher.  He's not there yet but I think 2021 he will make another leap forward. That leaves us with 8 pitchers in our top 25 prospects that all look exciting.  I think you use one of them as the headline of a trade to Texas.  I wouldn't trade Kopech for anything but DeGrom...his upside remains Nolan Ryan and while I like Fry the trade could end up looking real bad.  Dunning is the oldest of the group and showed scintillating stuff the other night.   He might be attractive enough to build a package around.  I would NOT trade Madrigal or Vaughan as I see them as foundational pieces.  I love Collins but it seems the White Sox don't.     So we send Dunning, Reylo, Collins, Rutherford and maybe throw in Elijiah Tatis as a wild card.   

We have so many of the offensive/Defensive parts in place I think we shouldn't wait for ALL the flowers to grow.  I mean really, don't you think that when Fry is done in two years that we will think of Kelly and Crochet about what we think of Cease and Kopech right now?  Trade in some chips Rick Hahn and let's go for it this year.

 

 

 

What am I missing here with Fry and why does he matter at all?  You must be referring to someone else, but for the life of me I can’t figure it out.

Sorry @bmags, but I’m stealing your post and putting it here as well.

 

Realistically in a 3 game playoff series it's Gio, Dallas and pray for runs.  One more good starter would be a huge get, but at what cost is the huge mystery.

 

7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Sorry @bmags, but I’m stealing your post and putting it here as well.

 

I thought that’s where I was lol my bad

This team really could use another lefty bat. I wish Nimmo was available, because he would be perfect. 

4 minutes ago, Orlando said:

 

Came in here to post the same. I wonder if Brett Anderson is available

lol late

It's hot stove season, I love it

Edited August 29, 20205 yr by TomPickle

Bauer officially out. Twins were after him...

 https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/08/reds-planning-to-buy-at-trade-deadline.html

4 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Bauer officially out. Twins were after him...

 https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/08/reds-planning-to-buy-at-trade-deadline.html

Fuck off Twins.  That's a win for the Sox.

19 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What am I missing here with Fry and why does he matter at all?  You must be referring to someone else, but for the life of me I can’t figure it out.

Sorry I meant Lynn

36 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I'm warming to the idea of making a trade for Lynn.  The problem is young pitchers have a learning curve.  It took Gio four years in the majors to really figure it out.  Cease is still not a sure thing after a year and a half.  If we are counting on Dunning based on four really good innings the other day and his pre-injury record...will he really be better than 2020 Cease next year? Won't we need a consistent top 4 to compete in playoffs and next year pennant race?  Will Kopech come up and be ace ready right off?  Even Chris Sale took a year and a half in the bullpen before he was great.  So let's say Kopech=Sale he likely won't be major force until 2022.  If you bring in Lynn you have a great top three and a very good top four for this year and next year.  You use the 4 and 5 slot plus relief to audition for Fry's replacement for 2022.  

The other thing to remember is we don't need 8 great starting pitchers.  We need 5.  

In theory for 2022 you have Gio, Cease, Kopech and Kuechel.  So you really only need one more and it seems like we have a  lot to chose from. 

Here's the pool for a trade for Fry and adding our 2022 fifth starter (or Kuechel replacement).

I tend to be the most optimistic on the board so I'm not ready to give up on Reylo completely yet...but I'm getting pretty close.  I had huge hope for Rodon but the injury thing just seems to make him unlikely to ever fulfill his promise.  

I think Cease has reached the point for me where he is going to be a very good major league pitcher.  He's not there yet but I think 2021 he will make another leap forward. That leaves us with 8 pitchers in our top 25 prospects that all look exciting.  I think you use one of them as the headline of a trade to Texas.  I wouldn't trade Kopech for anything but DeGrom...his upside remains Nolan Ryan and while I like Fry the trade could end up looking real bad.  Dunning is the oldest of the group and showed scintillating stuff the other night.   He might be attractive enough to build a package around.  I would NOT trade Madrigal or Vaughan as I see them as foundational pieces.  I love Collins but it seems the White Sox don't.     So we send Dunning, Reylo, Collins, Rutherford and maybe throw in Elijiah Tatis as a wild card.   

We have so many of the offensive/Defensive parts in place I think we shouldn't wait for ALL the flowers to grow.  I mean really, don't you think that when Fry is done in two years that we will think of Kelly and Crochet about what we think of Cease and Kopech right now?  Trade in some chips Rick Hahn and let's go for it this year.

 

 

 

If we're mapping out our near-term rotation plans, here's how I have things shaking out assuming the addition of Lynn and based on a theoretical acquisition cost of Lopez, Stiever, Collins, & Adolfo.

55 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Stroman is NOT getting 4/80 coming off injury. He is either getting a prove it contract or a 2-3 year deal with options added. I like him a lot, but short starting pitchers normally fade as they get older and FB diminishes

Roy Oswalt/Billy Wagner?