I don’t get the Chri Sale comparisons. Sale doesn’t let you take him out of that game!  Nor does any ace I would want. Snell is a very good twice through the lineup guy but Tampa was terrified of the third. When I hear ace, I think of the 120 plus pitch count guys or guys you don’t even count pitches when they start. I’m the proposals listed are the cost, hard, hard pass. 

11 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

Seems odd the the Rays are looking to trade Snell.  His remaining contract is a bargain for the type of pitcher he is.  Because of that, though, I think the cost would be too high for the Sox to trade for him.

A lot of it is fallout from the early pull. Several insiders reported that he was considering asking for a trade...he was that upset. Also his trade value will never be higher...and the Rays exploit that better than any franchise...hence why you stay the hell away.

13 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Hard pass on trading both Kopech and Crochet. 

Yeah, I'm open to a lot of proposals being thrown around here but we are looking for more than just one quality starter and giving up more than one of Dunning, Crochet and Cease might prove too costly.

I would be open to trading Vaughn but very hesitantly. We would have a future 1B/DH problem really soon.

Interesting thought:

 What if you trade for a SP - Snell, Marquez, etc, and feature Vaughn...with the plan to Sign Springer, Colas and move Eloy to DH or First in 2022? Colas becomes LF of future, you have all-stars in Center and RF and you get Eloy the hell out of the OF. Is that possibly the best possible solution to future proof the team and get the #1 or #2 you absolutely need? 

Edited November 24, 20205 yr by EloyJenkins

3 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Interesting thought:

 What if you trade for a SP - Snell, Marquez, etc, and feature Vaughn...with the plan to Sign Springer, Colas and move Eloy to DH or First in 2022? Colas becomes LF of future, you have all-stars in Center and RF and you get Eloy the hell out of the OF. Is that possibly the best possible solution to future proof the team and get the #1 or #2 you absolutely need? 

You know who would be a great, cheap addition if you trade Vaughn?  Mitch Moreland....hits righties well from the left side.  Eloy could DH against LHP.

My ideal is adding on top of our immediate young core - not balancing.

When I throw out Vaughn I’m just trying to be realistic on what TAmpa would actually want and what it would take.

The ideal trade for Sox is a greinke/verlander deal of past where they are still very good but on the side of their deal where their team couldn’t build around them anymore.

Thats why this offseason for pitching In good with quality depth and biding our time until one becomes available.

edit: I should add that this is what Darvish is to me and why he’s my favorite of the trades, followed by Lynn then musgrove.

9 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Andrew Vaughn and Michael Kopech are two of the top 25 prospects in baseball. There's no chance in hell that the Rays land both of them for Snell. The dude threw 100 innings in 2019 and 50 in 2020. I wouldn't even headline a package with 1 of them and I understand how awesome Snell is. When your owner is Jerry Reinsdorf and you don't consistently play at the top of the free agent market, you can't trade close to big league ready potential stars. It just doesn't make sense. I'd make a quantity deal with Cease, Dunning, Madrigal etc and if that isn't enough, just trade for Lynn or Musgrove instead. Kopech and Vaughn are too important IMO. I doubt the Rays get 1 prospect ranked as highly as either of Kopech or Vaughn. The problem is the Sox don't have enough guys in that 30-100 overall range prospect wise. 

Do you still think Kopech is thought of that highly around the league?  At the start of next season it will be 30 months since he has pitched in a game.  No one knows what he's going to look like when he comes back and that's obviously a huge red flag.  Add in the makeup issues and command problems he was having before the injury I would think Kopech is one of if not the riskiest players to acquire in all of baseball.  

9 hours ago, fathom said:

But they don’t need a 2B. They likely want a catcher in any deal.  Vaughn is actually someone they could really use.

Oh!  Sweet!  Then the Sox can trade them Grandal and resign McCann!

 

Would be sweet if Rays were super into Yermin Mercedes, take a trade we all are ecstatic about, then it turns out yermin is babe Ruth down there and torments the yerMEN on the board for eternity.

32 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Interesting thought:

 What if you trade for a SP - Snell, Marquez, etc, and feature Vaughn...with the plan to Sign Springer, Colas and move Eloy to DH or First in 2022? Colas becomes LF of future, you have all-stars in Center and RF and you get Eloy the hell out of the OF. Is that possibly the best possible solution to future proof the team and get the #1 or #2 you absolutely need? 

If Springer is locked in I'm open to trading Vaughn for pitching. 1B/DH is far easier to fill than RF or TOR starting pitching.  At worst Eloy gets a bulk of those DH at bats and that's not entirely a bad thing. 

13 minutes ago, SouthWallace said:

If Springer is locked in I'm open to trading Vaughn for pitching. 1B/DH is far easier to fill than RF or TOR starting pitching.  At worst Eloy gets a bulk of those DH at bats and that's not entirely a bad thing. 

I’m a little worried about Eloy in LF. He gets injured quite a bit so moving him to DH full time would not be a bad thing and say if we go out and sign either Colas or Cespedes as well than losing Vaughn for a top of the rotation pitcher, isn’t going to necessarily hurt the team long term but I would prefer them to trade Kopech if they had a choice between the two.

Edited November 24, 20205 yr by maloney.adam

33 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Do you still think Kopech is thought of that highly around the league?  At the start of next season it will be 30 months since he has pitched in a game.  No one knows what he's going to look like when he comes back and that's obviously a huge red flag.  Add in the makeup issues and command problems he was having before the injury I would think Kopech is one of if not the riskiest players to acquire in all of baseball.  

That’s why the Rays would want him - they would expect that they’re getting a substantial discount compared to where he might perform in 2 years, and then they can flip him for another Snell like return in 2023. They will take him...if the White Sox are valuing him as a tolerable third piece, not as a major centerpiece.

The Rays would also view the lost control year on Kopech as a huge loss, perhaps more than any other team, since they would have less time with him before having to trade him.

With the Rays probably off the market, I feel better about a Kopech-led package being hard to beat if the Rays have interest in him.

8 minutes ago, Quin said:

With the Rays probably off the market, I feel better about a Kopech-led package being hard to beat if the Rays have interest in him.

Pads lurk

13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

That’s why the Rays would want him - they would expect that they’re getting a substantial discount compared to where he might perform in 2 years, and then they can flip him for another Snell like return in 2023. They will take him...if the White Sox are valuing him as a tolerable third piece, not as a major centerpiece.

The Rays would also view the lost control year on Kopech as a huge loss, perhaps more than any other team, since they would have less time with him before having to trade him.

Lol

52 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Do you still think Kopech is thought of that highly around the league?  At the start of next season it will be 30 months since he has pitched in a game.  No one knows what he's going to look like when he comes back and that's obviously a huge red flag.  Add in the makeup issues and command problems he was having before the injury I would think Kopech is one of if not the riskiest players to acquire in all of baseball.  

I think the White Sox would be selling at his lowest value point ever which is why I think it's unlikely. Their development people are thrilled with how he looks. I'd be really surprised if they moved him right now. 

Just now, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I think the White Sox would be selling at his lowest value point ever which is why I think it's unlikely. Their development people are thrilled with how he looks. I'd be really surprised if they moved him right now. 

Good because he still has our highest ceiling out of our entire staff (Giolito included)

14 minutes ago, bmags said:

Lol

I assume you’re going to laugh at this also.

 

11 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I think the White Sox would be selling at his lowest value point ever which is why I think it's unlikely. Their development people are thrilled with how he looks. I'd be really surprised if they moved him right now. 

 

35 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

That’s why the Rays would want him - they would expect that they’re getting a substantial discount compared to where he might perform in 2 years, and then they can flip him for another Snell like return in 2023. They will take him...if the White Sox are valuing him as a tolerable third piece, not as a major centerpiece.

The Rays would also view the lost control year on Kopech as a huge loss, perhaps more than any other team, since they would have less time with him before having to trade him.

You are nuts bro.

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I assume you’re going to laugh at this also.

 

 

That doesn’t mean the Rays would view him as a “tolerable third piece”.  Every major publication views him as a top 30 prospect and most have always penalized him for lost.  You keep trying to develop a narrative that simply isn’t true.

22 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I think the White Sox would be selling at his lowest value point ever which is why I think it's unlikely. Their development people are thrilled with how he looks. I'd be really surprised if they moved him right now. 

I'm happy Kopech opted out of this season, marriage related or not.  Giving up 2 years of service time for 1 lost TJ year plus another pandemic shortened season that wouldn't have helped much anyway would have been a huge loss.  

IMO any "red flags" on Kopech do not in any way overshadow all of the green lights on him.  This guy is an absolute stud of a pitching prospect.

18 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I assume you’re going to laugh at this also.

 

 

No, his was a coherent point. 

Heat check:

If you didn't have to give up Vaughn or Crochet, would you deal Kopech in a package for Snell?

(I would, but I'm not a scout and I could obviously be an idiot. I should probably trust Jimmy on this if we're being honest.)

3 minutes ago, Quin said:

Heat check:

If you didn't have to give up Vaughn or Crochet, would you deal Kopech in a package for Snell?

(I would, but I'm not a scout and I could obviously be an idiot. I should probably trust Jimmy on this if we're being honest.)

Yes.

I would do Cease, Stiever, Dunning, Heuer.

I'm really not interested in moving Kopech or Vaughn.

I want to see these guys show themselves for the Sox - not for a playoff rival.