Honestly, if I was a Ranger fan, I would be upset with this trade and I could only imagine this board if the trade was in reverse. Sox just got a work horse and I refuse to believe trading for Lynn is not taking advantage of overselling Dunning. I liked Dane but seriously... doesn't anybody remember the hand-wringing of who was going to start game 3??? Lance Lynn is a stud. 

2 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

Who cares. 

The budget.

Just now, soxfaninfl said:

Honestly, if I was a Ranger fan, I would be upset with this trade and I could only imagine this board if the trade was in reverse. Sox just got a work horse and I refuse to believe trading for Lynn is not taking advantage of overselling Dunning. I liked Dane but seriously... doesn't anybody remember the hand-wringing of who was going to start game 3??? Lance Lynn is a stud. 

People are concerned, too much in my opinion, about 22, 23, 24 etc. which is fair. 

3 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

That’s not the point.  Dude said the only way this trade is worth it is if we get 3 years of an ace.  
 

Like Dunning is worth not 1 year of DeGrom.  No no.  3 years of ace.  That’s how great of a prospect Dunning is.  GMAFB

That's how it should work. You trade 7 WAR, you get a guy that could be worth 10, because of the uncertainty. 

It shouldn't be a 10 WAR gap if you're being really conservative. 

Edited December 8, 20205 yr by Jack Parkman

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

There is absolutely something special about him if he can actually command 4 pitches with average stuff. Hard to say if that's real given his competition last year. 

Control isn't a valuable asset for a pitcher. Only velocity and stuff matter. That's why Dylan Cease finished right behind Lynn in the Cy Young vote, why Dunning will never be even a 3, and why Bieber will never win a Cy Young.

The beauty of this deal...they compete at a high level in 21 and we see if Katz can salvage Cease. Cease has TOR potential. Dunning really doesnt. And Kopech is back and doesn't need to be overused next season If paired with a cheap vet. Dunning was only ever going to be the #5 on this team if the blue chips reach their expected ceiling. Losing Value on a prospect is similar to overspending on a FA in a lot of ways.

Edited December 8, 20205 yr by EloyJenkins

Just now, ptatc said:

The budget.

Great tell me how the budget looks next year at this time when Lynn is gone or signed for a sizeable deal.  Plus you have to fill in other holes.  We are not a cost controlled element from beating the Dodgers or the elites in the AL.  This problem will be here every year we try to make a run.  The Lynn deal is great for 2021 and 2021 only.  

4 minutes ago, macsandz said:

Except when it mattered most. He was barreled more and more as teams could see his stuff. Sox fans will claim "tired arm and misuse" but he couldn't pitch one scoreless inning when he had to. Facts. 

Lol so wait, his rookie year playoff appearance means he sucks but Lance Lynn career 4.8 ERA and 1.6 WHIP in 54 post season innings makes him a reliable post season stopper lol

Dunning's team control was too much to give up for essentially a rental, but nothing can be done about it now.  At least the second piece was minimal.  Sign Joc, a 4th starter, and a closer now please. 

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Not all WAR is treated equal, but this is a trade we could easily lose from a lifetime surplus value perspective.  That being said, baseballtradevalues says we won this trade and that’s all that matters!

Agreed- I think we should expect to lose that a bit.  But then again it may end up being closer than most here realize.  Lynn could put up another 6.8 WAR for $8 million bucks...little bit of SV there.  

I’m fairly confident 2 of Kopech, Cease, Crochet, Kelley, Dalquist, Thompson, Steiver etc will be about as good as Dunning, one of those guys likely ending up significantly better. Which is why I’m not sweating losing dunning. 

49 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

I'm upset because I see a lot of Shane Bieber in Dane Dunning.

I’ve been telling people this for a while now as well.  Most people called me crazy.  I was so pumped to eventually not only be right, but to also have our version of Shane Bieber for the next six years.  Now I’m struggling because I don’t want to be right anymore, but I do wish Dunning the best of luck.  

I can't keep up, so Lynn's playoff appearances don't count and are small samples but Dunning proved he sucked because he didn't dominate an elimination game where his manager practically told him he was bad and couldn't do it before anything even happened.

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Lol so wait, his rookie year playoff appearance means he sucks but Lance Lynn career 4.8 ERA and 1.6 WHIP in 54 post season innings makes him a reliable post season stopper lol

What is means is if you have a choice which of them to start a playoff game in 2021 you don't choose Dunning. 

5 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

That’s not the point.  Dude said the only way this trade is worth it is if we get 3 years of an ace.  
 

Like Dunning is worth not 1 year of DeGrom.  No no.  3 years of ace.  That’s how great of a prospect Dunning is.  GMAFB

Dunning was worth 0.7 WAR in 2020. Lance Lynn was worth 1.5 WAR in 2020. If those trends continue, the White Sox massively lose this trade. What's worse, because of the aging curve, Lynn is likely to get worse while Dunning is likely to remain the same or get better.

 

Just now, EloyJenkins said:

The beauty of this deal...they compete at a high level in 21 and we see if Katz can salvage Cease. Cease gas TOR potential. Dunning really doesnt. And Kopech is back and doesn't need to be overused next season If paired with a cheap vet. Dunning was only ever going to be the #5 on this team if the blue chips reach their expected ceiling. Losing Value on a prospect is similar to overspending on a FA in a lot of ways.

That’s why I’m somewhat ok with the move despite if we end up on the short-end of the deal.  We needed another TOR starter for the 2021 season and Kopech, Cease, & Crochet are all a year or two away from filling that kind of role.  With the rest of the core in place, it made to sense to get a bridge guy to buy you some time even if you end up losing out the deal a little bit.

1 minute ago, mqr said:

I’m fairly confident 2 of Kopech, Cease, Crochet, Kelley, Dalquist, Thompson, Steiver etc will be about as good as Dunning, one of those guys likely ending up significantly better. Which is why I’m not sweating losing dunning. 

Yeah, I have no issues dealing dunning I just wanted years back. 

2 minutes ago, SouthWallace said:

Dunning's team control was too much to give up for essentially a rental, but nothing can be done about it now.  At least the second piece was minimal.  Sign Joc, a 4th starter, and a closer now please. 

Gotta say, I take umbrage with team control so often being brought up regarding an almost complete unknown. 

1 minute ago, Dam8610 said:

Dunning was worth 0.7 WAR in 2020. Lance Lynn was worth 1.5 WAR in 2020. If those trends continue, the White Sox massively lose this trade. What's worse, because of the aging curve, Lynn is likely to get worse while Dunning is likely to remain the same or get better.

^^^^^^^^^^

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yeah, I have no issues dealing dunning I just wanted years back. 

Same. 

1 minute ago, Dam8610 said:

Dunning was worth 0.7 WAR in 2020. Lance Lynn was worth 1.5 WAR in 2020. If those trends continue, the White Sox massively lose this trade. What's worse, because of the aging curve, Lynn is likely to get worse while Dunning is likely to remain the same or get better.

Dunning faced the Royals 13 times in 7 starts which helps a bit.

11 minutes ago, macsandz said:

Except when it mattered most. He was barreled more and more as teams could see his stuff. Sox fans will claim "tired arm and misuse" but he couldn't pitch one scoreless inning when he had to. Facts. 

We don't know that since jumpy Renteria pulled him before we could find out

1 minute ago, southsideirish71 said:

Great tell me how the budget looks next year at this time when Lynn is gone or signed for a sizeable deal.  Plus you have to fill in other holes.  We are not a cost controlled element from beating the Dodgers or the elites in the AL.  This problem will be here every year we try to make a run.  The Lynn deal is great for 2021 and 2021 only.  

Lynn is a really good pitcher for 8 mil for next year. We all know the budget is going to be really restrictive due to the lack off revenue this year. The rotation after Lynn leaves will be Giolito,  Keuchal, Cease , Kopech and probably steiver or Lambert, unless they acquire someone else. They will use next year to get kopech and other up to speed again.

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

^^^^^^^^^^

You could probably find infinite cases of guys being half as good as someone much better than them over a 60 game stretch.