17 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Dude, you hit the nail right on the head here. 

Nobody is mad they traded Dunning. 

Nobody is mad they acquired a pitcher as good as Lynn. 

People are mad that they traded 6 years of Dunning for only 1 year of Lynn. 

Dunning might not be shit, that's fine. But this trade was a horrid value and that's what we're complaining about. 

The object is to win the World Series. It isn't about winning the trade or value . As someone noted, Baseballtradevalues.com had us winning in value. So it's their expertise against everyone here.  We can argue all day about how we all see Dunning faring in the future or how Lynn fairs in the near future. I honestly hope Dunning becomes a great pitcher. Wishing him to pitch poorly in order to enhance someones ability to say I told you so ,sucks. I'm geared up for World Series this year but winning the WS takes a team. We are 1 good pitcher closer, who was needed badly to win in 2021and we buy time for Kopech , Crochet, Cease and even Lopez to pitch innings , get stronger, work with a new pitching coach, and contribute beyond 2021.

Edited December 9, 20205 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

52 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Wait what made you right? Did I miss some invisible seasons when Dunning became Bieber ?

Bieber has insane walk suppression, that's the biggest trait that makes him outstanding. Dunning, while close at times, was never quite that good at it. That said, 80% of Bieber on a league minimum contract for the next 3 years is more valuable than Lance Lynn. That's a high end outcome for Dunning, but the Sox are now betting on a high end outcome for a 34 year old.

 

Being absolutely  thrilled about this trade seems so long ago.  

1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Did you not see when signed Eaton?

Really ? lol I'm busy and got a late start on this thread and i like to read everything . I better go check that out. thanks.

1 hour ago, turnin' two said:

I have no idea what point you made or you are trying to make.  If it was earlier in this thread, I didn't read it all.  Sorry.  Is the point the Sox are cheap?  If so, yeah.  Duh.  It sucks, but you have to live in reality.

Not surprising.

I just want to bathe for a little while in the fact that we have the 5,6, and 7 vote getters in last year's Cy Young in our starting rotation.

30 minutes ago, Superstar Lamar said:

I just want to bathe for a little while in the fact that we have the 5,6, and 7 vote getters in last year's Cy Young in our starting rotation.

i am ready to add the 9th

45 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

Not surprising.

Wow.  Sweet burn bro.  Dang.

 

 

3 hours ago, RagahRagah said:

It honestly astounds me how many people keep needing the point repeated to them over and over.

Are we likely to be better? Yes. But that's why you make better moves and big signings, to get your team over the top and make them elite. Lynn is a fine addition but if our plan now is Eaton and Q then this offseason ends up being a waste. 

 

2 hours ago, RagahRagah said:

Willful tone deafness. Interesting.

"Better" is not the point. Better and great are two different things.

 

2 hours ago, RagahRagah said:

Again, I'm not sure why you're so afraid of the point in keep dancing around it. Then at the end you basically supported by saying it's not realistic. The only reason it's not realistic is... the point that I made.

Jeez.

This is where I came into the conversation.  Could you please direct me to where you made any sort of coherent point that I am supposed to get?

if we cant extend lynn then this is a bad deal imo

@CaliSoxFanViaSWside has been advocating Lynn for Dunning since July. Good call, brother.

19 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

 

 

This is where I came into the conversation.  Could you please direct me to where you made any sort of coherent point that I am supposed to get?

Okay, I was a dick. And I apologize. I'm not normally that way.

That said, the entire first paragraph you quoted is the point. So you argued it, but then kind of supported it with the last thing you said in the same response.

I guess I need to speak a little more plainly and state that after trading Dunning for Lynn if we simply settle for Q then we aren't nearly moving the needle enough to be a playoff team.

Edited December 8, 20205 yr by RagahRagah

13 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

if we cant extend lynn then this is a bad deal imo

It is not if they win. 

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It is not if they win. 

No. "Ifs" don't mean anything. It Bears repeating that what makes a decision good is not the results but the process. For a basic example, if something fails 9 out of 10 times then you don't get credit for being the one who had to go right. If we can't extend Lynn this is a bad deal.

Edited December 8, 20205 yr by RagahRagah

20 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

No. "Ifs" don't mean anything. It Bears repeating that what makes a decision good is not the results but the process. For a basic example, if something fails 9 out of 10 times then you don't get credit for being the one who had to go right. If win e can't extend Lynn this is a bad deal.

If Lynn want to test the market but leads the White Sox to a WS, signs a 3 year $55 million contract with the Angels next winter, and sucks for them sorry, that’s a win. Good processes lead to wins, no doubt. But ultimately you are judged by wins. Extending 34 year olds   Isn’t necessarily a good process.

 

 

Edited December 8, 20205 yr by Dick Allen

23 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

Okay, I was a dick. And I apologize. I'm not normally that way.

That said, the entire first paragraph you quoted is the point. So you argued it, but then kind of supported it with the last thing you said in the same response.

I guess I need to speak a little more plainly and state that after trading Dunning for Lynn if we simply settle for Q then we aren't nearly moving the needle enough to be a playoff team.

I'm sure you are a charming person in real life but here on Soxtalk you seem to be a dick to everyone.   Still...that's fine.  Dick away.  But...we just added a guy who's been one of the ten best pitchers in baseball over the last two years and one of the leaders in innings pitched...and a left handed hitting RF who has a career .360 OBP to a team that WAS A PLAYOFF TEAM last year...and you say if we add another piece only as good as Q we won't be good enough to be a playoff team?   WHAT???    

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If Lynn want to test the market but leads the White Sox to a WS, signs a 3 year $55 million contract with the Angels next winter, and sucks for them sorry, that’s a win. Good processes lead to wins, no doubt. But ultimately you are judged by wins. Extending 34 year olds   Isn’t necessarily a good process.

 

 

I think this is one of the best points in the thread...we NEED a bridge to the future...this team is good enough to win right now and we have amazing young pitching talent.   A year from now, assuming a normal minor league season...and with this hot shot new pitching coach...we will know what Cease, Kopech, Stiever, Kelly and Crochett really are.  I just listened to a prospects podcast going crazy about how good Crochett is...and Kopech might be better.   It's possible that by 2022 our rotation will be filled with dynamic arms...but today, right now, for 2021 we need a big time arm because the rest of the team is ready.  Lynn is exactly the guy we should be looking for.  AND we've kept the powder dry.  We are still sitting on a big pile of money that we can shove in at the trading deadline...or next offseason when we see more clearly where the weaknesses are.  

13 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I think this is one of the best points in the thread...we NEED a bridge to the future...this team is good enough to win right now and we have amazing young pitching talent.   A year from now, assuming a normal minor league season...and with this hot shot new pitching coach...we will know what Cease, Kopech, Stiever, Kelly and Crochett really are.  I just listened to a prospects podcast going crazy about how good Crochett is...and Kopech might be better.   It's possible that by 2022 our rotation will be filled with dynamic arms...but today, right now, for 2021 we need a big time arm because the rest of the team is ready.  Lynn is exactly the guy we should be looking for.  AND we've kept the powder dry.  We are still sitting on a big pile of money that we can shove in at the trading deadline...or next offseason when we see more clearly where the weaknesses are.  

link to that podcast?

3 minutes ago, beautox said:

link to that podcast?

It's just the next tab over in FutureSox talk...but here it is again. IT's worth it to dig into the guys archive to find the full podcast he did on Crochet (admittedly before the arm injury).  

Part 1

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/farm-system-rundown-chicago-white-sox-part-1/id1525225214?i=1000500861174

Part 2

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/farm-system-rundown-chicago-white-sox-part-2/id1525225214?i=1000501041449

59 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If Lynn want to test the market but leads the White Sox to a WS, signs a 3 year $55 million contract with the Angels next winter, and sucks for them sorry, that’s a win. Good processes lead to wins, no doubt. But ultimately you are judged by wins. Extending 34 year olds   Isn’t necessarily a good process.

 

 

Then we shouldn't have traded for him, lol.

1 hour ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I'm sure you are a charming person in real life but here on Soxtalk you seem to be a dick to everyone.   Still...that's fine.  Dick away.  But...we just added a guy who's been one of the ten best pitchers in baseball over the last two years and one of the leaders in innings pitched...and a left handed hitting RF who has a career .360 OBP to a team that WAS A PLAYOFF TEAM last year...and you say if we add another piece only as good as Q we won't be good enough to be a playoff team?   WHAT???    

Actually. I'm almost never a dick. Being curt and being a dick are two different things.

Didn't you once say I was "too stupid to argue with?" Some self-awareness might do you some good.

By playoff team I clearly mean playoff WINNING team. We can get to the playoffs now, that should be a given. Moving the needle means pushing further in the playoffs. If you knew that you wouldn't have posted what you just did. So here I am having to correct you again, and that's fine. I don't want to be the Twins and build teams simply to win divisions and lose every playoff game. What we did today is likely not enough. 

Maybe one day you will respond humbly to a correction. Maybe then you won't see this as "being a dick." I never called you stupid. Maybe think this through a bit more.

Edited December 8, 20205 yr by RagahRagah

51 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I think this is one of the best points in the thread...we NEED a bridge to the future...this team is good enough to win right now and we have amazing young pitching talent.   A year from now, assuming a normal minor league season...and with this hot shot new pitching coach...we will know what Cease, Kopech, Stiever, Kelly and Crochett really are.  I just listened to a prospects podcast going crazy about how good Crochett is...and Kopech might be better.   It's possible that by 2022 our rotation will be filled with dynamic arms...but today, right now, for 2021 we need a big time arm because the rest of the team is ready.  Lynn is exactly the guy we should be looking for.  AND we've kept the powder dry.  We are still sitting on a big pile of money that we can shove in at the trading deadline...or next offseason when we see more clearly where the weaknesses are.  

Well said as always.

1 hour ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I'm sure you are a charming person in real life but here on Soxtalk you seem to be a dick to everyone.   Still...that's fine.  Dick away.  But...we just added a guy who's been one of the ten best pitchers in baseball over the last two years and one of the leaders in innings pitched...and a left handed hitting RF who has a career .360 OBP to a team that WAS A PLAYOFF TEAM last year...and you say if we add another piece only as good as Q we won't be good enough to be a playoff team?   WHAT???    

So you failed to understand the phrase I used, projected your issues onto me (guy who says "you're too stupid to argue with" is telling me I'm a dick... lol, ok), failed to acknowledge my clarification, reacted with a laugh emoticon and then simply didn't respond. 

You really need to just stop responding to me because this cycle is just pitiful at this point. If you are too egotistical to even say, "Ok, thanks for the clarification" or even bother to ATTEMPT to make an excuse for yourself then you have nothing to offer by responding to me in the first place; not sure why you constantly start arguments you then immediately run away from. Maybe one day you'll learn your lesson. If you are just going to attempt to jab someone and then run when they respond and challenge you every single time then why are you even bothering? How many times must we go through this?

You simply ignoring what I say and responding with a laugh emoji (the reaction stuff has been for the worst here, I'm sorry) is just simply immature.

Edited December 8, 20205 yr by RagahRagah

38 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

Actually. I'm almost never a dick. Being curt and being a dick are two different things.

Didn't you once say I was "too stupid to argue with?" Some self-awareness might do you some good.

By playoff team I clearly mean playoff WINNING team. We can get to the playoffs now, that should be a given. Moving the needle means pushing further in the playoffs. If you knew that you wouldn't have posted what you just did. So here I am having to correct you again, and that's fine. I don't want to be the Twins and build teams simply to win divisions and lose every playoff game. What we did today is likely not enough. 

Maybe one day you will respond humbly to a correction. Maybe then you won't see this as "being a dick." I never called you stupid. Maybe think this through a bit more.

Ohmigod you are such a dick.   I responded to what you said...sorry if I didn't respond to what you clearly meant (???)...in most arguments with you it is hard to tell the difference.  My humble counterpoint if you would care to try to eliminate the dickness...was that adding one of the top pitchers in baseball probably will help us in the playoffs.  Having Vaughan, Eaton and Madrigal as our 7-8-9 hitters will drive pitchers crazy with their bat control and .360 OBP.  That might help in the playoffs over automatic outs last year of Mazara and EE.  If you want to talk baseball I'm happy to.  If you want to trade insults...that's fun too.