45 minutes ago, ron883 said:

If Balta was manager this team may have 10+ more wins. Somebody get Rick Hahn on the phone ASAP. 

I thought you were going to be GM.

Just now, hi8is said:

I thought you were going to be GM.

Nah, that job is reserved for @WBWSF.

22 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Do you cross reference that with the games where he made the correct move and it worked out or does that not matter 

I think an 11-18 record in 1 run games answers that question pretty effectively.

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I think an 11-18 record in 1 run games answers that question pretty effectively.

What a weak and lazy argument to stand behind. Sad.

Just now, ron883 said:

What a weak and lazy argument to stand behind. Sad.

No, "oh so you think you could manage this team better" is a pathetic argument that doesn't deserve better. I couldn't manage better than that, but I am a bloody geologist. So stop wasting my time with that garbage, Tony LaRussa couldn't do my job either. An experienced baseball person with some familiarity with modern bullpen usage? The record speaks for itself.

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

No, "oh so you think you could manage this team better" is a pathetic argument that doesn't deserve better. I couldn't manage better than that, but I am a bloody geologist. So stop wasting my time with that garbage, Tony LaRussa couldn't do my job either. An experienced baseball person with some familiarity with modern bullpen usage? The record speaks for itself.

You keep a list of games Tony "lost" due to his decision making. You clearly think if Tony had made what you think are "correct moves", the Sox would win those games. It seems pretty obvious that you think you would make better in-game decisions than Tony. Also...

https://www.mlb.com/news/mariners-among-best-in-history-in-1-run-games-c280909432

The 2018 Astros were 6-12 in 1 game games when this article was written. That team won 103 games. 

By your logic, AJ Hinch = bad, and they probably win 110 games with a good manager. 

Edited August 12, 20214 yr by ron883

12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I think an 11-18 record in 1 run games answers that question pretty effectively.

ah I see that's your only barometer now.  

 

@ron883 is right.  Weak.  And I don't say that lightly. 
 

 

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

No, "oh so you think you could manage this team better" is a pathetic argument that doesn't deserve better. I couldn't manage better than that, but I am a bloody geologist. So stop wasting my time with that garbage, Tony LaRussa couldn't do my job either. An experienced baseball person with some familiarity with modern bullpen usage? The record speaks for itself.

You provide that garbage every time you claim your decision is superior 

11 minutes ago, ron883 said:

You keep a list of games Tony "lost" due to his decision making. You clearly think if Tony had made what you think are "correct moves", the Sox would win those games. It seems pretty obvious that you think you would make better in-game decisions than Tony. Also...

https://www.mlb.com/news/mariners-among-best-in-history-in-1-run-games-c280909432

The 2018 Astros were 6-12 in 1 game games when this article was written. That team won 103 games. 

By your logic, AJ Hinch = bad, and they probably win 110 games with a good manager. 

They finished 24-24.

The only playoff team in 2018 with a below .500 record in 1-run games was Cleveland, who were 22-24. In fact, you have to go back to 2017 to find a team that even made the playoffs with a record 7 games below .500 in those games.

1 hour ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

No team has 8 relievers who are all good enough to be used in high leverage situations. Ruiz is who you put in when you're up or down by more than 5 runs.

Also, they aren't "nothing games" Given the Sox home/road splits, home field advantage is really important. I get that you can't use your best guys 100% of the time, but you can use them in the 6th inning of a tie game and still find time to keep them plenty rested.

These are the kind of narratives that never make any sense.  A pitcher with a 3.57 ERA with decent K, BB percentages should not only be put in games up or down by 5 runs. How often does that happen? Then you got others here who aren't going to trust Lopez in the same situation and others who want Kimbrel and Hendrick to pitch at any time. If Foster stays around how do you use him ? So now you have 3 guys you can't use unless  you are up or down by 5 runs ? There are way more things to consider besides how far ahead or down you are.

Look when you manage a bullpen there are never ideal situations to pitch just the right guy.  You track their appearances, their innings pitched last year , innings pitched this year ,the times they get up and down in the pen,  who's coming up to bat, how they feel, and maybe a dozen other things and the manager has to make a choice  while using everyone to keep them all involved as much as possible because you never know when someone will be called upon to go above and beyond their specific role. A manager will do certain things to manage the specific roles he has on how to use guys. It's never going to make everyone happy in the regular season with a 10 game lead.

Managing in the post season is a different ball game and despite anyone thinking the way TLR manages the BP is antiquated his BP usage will also change in the post season.

Right now HFA is rightly taking a back seat to keeping the team healthy and ready to play the post season. At some point, some of you have to realize TLR has done this before. He has got teams ready to play in the post season and won World Series.

1 hour ago, manbearpuig said:

Nah, that job is reserved for @WBWSF.

Ah yes. That was the fellow!

17 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

These are the kind of narratives that never make any sense.  A pitcher with a 3.57 ERA with decent K, BB percentages should not only be put in games up or down by 5 runs. How often does that happen? Then you got others here who aren't going to trust Lopez in the same situation and others who want Kimbrel and Hendrick to pitch at any time. If Foster stays around how do you use him ? So now you have 3 guys you can't use unless  you are up or down by 5 runs ? There are way more things to consider besides how far ahead or down you are.

Look when you manage a bullpen there are never ideal situations to pitch just the right guy.  You track their appearances, their innings pitched last year , innings pitched this year ,the times they get up and down in the pen,  who's coming up to bat, how they feel, and maybe a dozen other things and the manager has to make a choice  while using everyone to keep them all involved as much as possible because you never know when someone will be called upon to go above and beyond their specific role. A manager will do certain things to manage the specific roles he has on how to use guys. It's never going to make everyone happy in the regular season with a 10 game lead.

Managing in the post season is a different ball game and despite anyone thinking the way TLR manages the BP is antiquated his BP usage will also change in the post season.

Right now HFA is rightly taking a back seat to keeping the team healthy and ready to play the post season. At some point, some of you have to realize TLR has done this before. He has got teams ready to play in the post season and won World Series.

And that pitcher has expected ERA and FIP values around 4.3-4.6, so he looks better because he's been somewhat lucky, which is common for relievers.

Now step back and look at it this way. If the goal for the White Sox was to get as much rest for people as they could, and then see how the result of the game goes - and maybe try to win it in the 8th or 9th if they happened to be in a position to do so? Great, that's fine, I get that. It's even consistent with your last line - you are putting the bench out there, you are going to pitch your back of the team relievers, and see what happens. 

Except, the White Sox didn't do that. They could very well have pushed Lopez farther to try to get through the 4th inning, he had only thrown 51 pitches at that point and only 1 month ago he was starting in Charlotte. Even if they hadn't done that, they could have said "ok, we're going Ruiz and then Foster for 3 innings together" starting in the 6th - neither of those guys had pitched the day before. They could have put Tepera out there in the 8th inning, yes he pitched the day before but he's also a middle reliever in this bullpen. In any of those cases, if the reliever loses the game - there's no real complaint, because everyone who is actually important got rest and you're fully correct.

Instead of doing any of those things, they gave up the game in the 6th inning, then still warmed up Kopech without bringing him in - why? And then, when down 1 run, they brought in Kimbrel to make sure it stayed a 1 run game? So HFA should take a back seat to keeping the team healthy and ready to play, but Kopech and Kimbrel aren't that important so we should burn those guys now? 

At least pick a lane. If you're going to play all your backups, then Kopech shouldn't be warming and Kimbrel shouldn't be coming in unless you've got a real chance to steal something at the end. If you're going to bring Kimbrel in to keep it a 1 run game, then use Kopech earlier to try to keep it tied, and then use some pinch hitters in the 9th and make an effort to win the game? 

I think there is a huge misunderstanding of the conclusions that should be drawn  from a 1-run final score.  
 

Pick any month and go through the box scores.  You’ll just start laughing when you think about the arguments being made in this thread.  

kimbrel needs to close..

 

18 minutes ago, harkness99 said:

kimbrel needs to close..

 

I think Kimbrel should get some opportunities to close for sure.

Having said that, not enough people I think appreciate that Hendriks basically carried an underperforming bullpen on his back for the first half of the season.  I chalk this up to him going this many days without work.  It's pretty clear that when he goes long stretches without work, he's not very good.  I would be down though to see him in the 8th inning on Saturday and Kimbrel in the 9th.  And I think because of his desire to pitch more, TLR can be more creative with the ways they use him. 

 

The only thing really alarming about Hendriks this year is how many home runs he's given up.  Some of that is probably due to Comiskey being a much more home run friendly ballpark than Oakland.  But also, it's partly because he's always attacking the strike zone.  There are sometimes he's going to get hit.  Still, before Kimbrel switched leagues, he was the best closer in the AL by a mile.  I still feel comfortable with him in the 9th.  Thank god we have Kimbrel though.

I'm not sure my nerves can handle Liam closing in the postseason but he does have a great closer's mentality and will put this game behind him I am sure.

One thing I whole-heartedly agree with Hendriks about....those uniforms need to be put in the rotation.  They looked outstanding out there.

8 hours ago, harkness99 said:

kimbrel needs to close..

 

He sure does. 

8 hours ago, Colome's Hat said:

I think Kimbrel should get some opportunities to close for sure.

Having said that, not enough people I think appreciate that Hendriks basically carried an underperforming bullpen on his back for the first half of the season.  I chalk this up to him going this many days without work.  It's pretty clear that when he goes long stretches without work, he's not very good.  I would be down though to see him in the 8th inning on Saturday and Kimbrel in the 9th.  And I think because of his desire to pitch more, TLR can be more creative with the ways they use him. 

 

The only thing really alarming about Hendriks this year is how many home runs he's given up.  Some of that is probably due to Comiskey being a much more home run friendly ballpark than Oakland.  But also, it's partly because he's always attacking the strike zone.  There are sometimes he's going to get hit.  Still, before Kimbrel switched leagues, he was the best closer in the AL by a mile.  I still feel comfortable with him in the 9th.  Thank god we have Kimbrel though.

He has looked good at times... but he is also tied for 2nd in the mlb in blown saves.. it is what it is.

25 minutes ago, harkness99 said:

He has looked good at times... but he is also tied for 2nd in the mlb in blown saves.. it is what it is.

He also leads the AL in saves.  Looked good at times is kind of an interesting way of putting it.  Dude has saved a baseball game 26 times and that's not counting the times he's come into a tie game and shut the opponent down.  

I would say from here on out, Liam gets 3 out of 5 save opportunities and I would actually say in the immediate, the other two Liam should pitch the 8th just to keep him fresh.  

6 hours ago, Colome's Hat said:

He also leads the AL in saves.  Looked good at times is kind of an interesting way of putting it.  Dude has saved a baseball game 26 times and that's not counting the times he's come into a tie game and shut the opponent down.  

I would say from here on out, Liam gets 3 out of 5 save opportunities and I would actually say in the immediate, the other two Liam should pitch the 8th just to keep him fresh.  

he is 26/32 in saves.  

thats 81% which ranks 6th in the AL abd 17th in mlb

Failing nearly 20% of the time is not acceptable for me for a closer sorry.

He is a good relief pitcher compared to most but as a closer he is just okay.. he is fun to watch but he is vulnerable.

Edited August 13, 20214 yr by harkness99

I'm sorry but I think it is valid to be concerned at the # of home runs being given up by our dual closers.

maybe we can claim colome offer waivers.

2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

maybe we can claim colome offer waivers.

He constantly did a tight rope act with the Sox, but did not seem to blow so many friggin games.

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

maybe we can claim colome offer waivers.

Then we’d really have the most expensive pen in the history of the sport.

And Hahn would look like a complete dumbass.

To top it off, we’d probably face Narvaez, Avi and Escobar in the World Series.

5.40 era since coming over ?