IMO, the biggest question this raises is, related to comments in the other thread ….. how does this affect the odds Hahn stays or goes???

I wish we could steal Joe Espada from the Astros to be the manager for the White Sox. 

37 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

Glad to see our poor positioning defensively and our league worse in shifts will continue with a dinosaur running things and refusing to adapt.

I doubt any of this was determined by LaRussa. That's the advanced scouting and analytics department. 

Before you say he doesn't listen to any of that, he was one of the pioneers of it in St. Louis.

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

that's where I'm at. At the same time what other options are out there? He seems to have built some trust with the players I don't know if there is a better move available. A lateral move does nothing.

It's funny to see the Tony stans, like CTSF, explode and say enough is enough in the game threads, and then come running back with their tail between their legs claiming there's no point in doing anything....

Imagine if Chitown had this same energy when Ricky was manager when he demanded over and over again that Ricky get replaced and fired, no questions asked.

If TLR is back I think he is just an extension of the front office at this point... or Hahn is leaving. 

I know this is the case with most managers... and it doesn't mean Tony can't or won't go rogue at some point in the season, but if Hahn is onboard I think Tony is pretty much just doing his bidding.

Edited October 14, 20214 yr by GREEDY

Some days when I'm low and I think all is lost for the future of my beloved Palehose, I close my eyes and repeat...this guy won a World Series...this guy won a World Series....

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I doubt any of this was determined by LaRussa. That's the advanced scouting and analytics department. 

Before you say he doesn't listen to any of that, he was one of the pioneers of it in St. Louis.

This is what I was thinking. The entire analytics department and coaching staff has a say in this. You think Tony is just saying "fuck you, I do what I want?" People just love getting trigged by Tony. Did he do a poor job in the postseason? Hell yeah. Is everything his fault? Nope. 

6 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I doubt any of this was determined by LaRussa. That's the advanced scouting and analytics department. 

Before you say he doesn't listen to any of that, he was one of the pioneers of it in St. Louis.

In 2019 the Sox ranked 15th in shifts, doing it 22.3% of PA’s

In 2020 the Sox ranked 22nd in shifts, but they actually increased the amount of shifts they employed, doing it 29.3% of PA’s

In 2021, the Sox ranked 27th, and the number dropped to 20.3%
 

So I’m not so sure it wasn’t a LaRussa decision……and I don’t think you should be either. 

7 minutes ago, chetkincaid said:

I wish we could steal Joe Espada from the Astros to be the manager for the White Sox. 

Yes.

Just now, Tony said:

In 2019 the Sox ranked 15th in shifts, doing it 22.3% of PA’s

In 2020 the Sox ranked 22nd in shifts, but they actually increased the amount of shifts they employed, doing it 29.3% of PA’s

In 2021, the Sox ranked 27th, and the number dropped to 20.3%
 

So I’m not so sure it wasn’t a LaRussa decision……and I don’t think you should be either. 

So you think the analytics department and front office was saying to shift more, but TLR said "go fook yourself?"

The Sox are who they always have been; sure they "rebuilt" but that was a concession Jerry could live with because it saved them some money.

They'll always be the "serious talking" half-assed walking organization when it comes to operating like a contender. They have always talked the talk, but they don't walk the walk. The organization is riddled with nepotism, the "advancements" and tech were just getting 5 years behind other teams instead of being 10, and the payroll is going to be the same spend high at positions that high doesn't cost much so you can claim you were playing with the big boys. The Sox won't pony up big cash to supplement the core like they claimed, instead they'll claim that cash was used to keep the core... whatever that means.

Fact is, the Sox don't know how to act like big boys, and their owner is stuck in a game that existed three decades ago. As long as LaRussa is in charge, we'll continue to see shit like this:

 

28	Chicago White Sox	-12	-21	-6	-14	3	2	0	7	-11	3	14	-5	-40
29	New York Yankees	-10	-5	-7	-12	-5	-15	-5	-5	6	-1	16	2	-41
30	Philadelphia Phillies	10	-8	-9	4	-11	-18	-9	0	-9	-9	9	-4	-54

White Sox -40 defensive runs. 20% shifts compared to league average of 30% and compared to 46% from Astros and 50% from Dodgers. As long as the Sox have a dinosaur in the dugout, they'll continue playing a game that hasn't existed since the Mesozoic era.

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The Sox are who they always have been; sure they "rebuilt" but that was a concession Jerry could live with because it saved them some money.

They'll always be the "serious talking" half-assed walking organization when it comes to operating like a contender. They have always talked the talk, but they don't walk the walk. The organization is riddled with nepotism, the "advancements" and tech were just getting 5 years behind other teams instead of being 10, and the payroll is going to be the same spend high at positions that high doesn't cost much so you can claim you were playing with the big boys. The Sox won't pony up big cash to supplement the core like they claimed, instead they'll claim that cash was used to keep the core... whatever that means.

Fact is, the Sox don't know how to act like big boys, and their owner is stuck in a game that existed three decades ago. As long as LaRussa is in charge, we'll continue to see shit like this:

 

28	Chicago White Sox	-12	-21	-6	-14	3	2	0	7	-11	3	14	-5	-40
29	New York Yankees	-10	-5	-7	-12	-5	-15	-5	-5	6	-1	16	2	-41
30	Philadelphia Phillies	10	-8	-9	4	-11	-18	-9	0	-9	-9	9	-4	-54

White Sox -40 defensive runs. 20% shifts compared to league average of 30% and compared to 46% from Astros and 50% from Dodgers. As long as the Sox have a dinosaur in the dugout, they'll continue playing a game that hasn't existed since the Mesozoic era.

Speaking of spending/not spending...I wonder what would have happened if Wheeler accepted the Sox offer (or I should say if Mrs. Wheeler accepted the offer)?

14 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I doubt any of this was determined by LaRussa. That's the advanced scouting and analytics department. 

Before you say he doesn't listen to any of that, he was one of the pioneers of it in St. Louis.

This cannot be a serious comment.

Tony LaRussa is literally on record saying data is great and all, but at the end of the day he trust "observational" analytics... which is a stupid fancy way of saying he trusts the eye test and his gut.

Last year, with Ricky in charge and shifting on 30% of plays, the White Sox ranked SECOND in baseball in DRS.
This year, with LaRussa in charge and shifting 20% of AB's, The White Sox ranked third from LAST in baseball in DRS.

Fielding analytics are volatile, but they're not that volatile. This team took a 20 year step back by hiring LaRussa to run the team.

Calling Tony La Russa one of the pioneers of analytics in baseball is one of the most delusional things I've ever read.

Edited October 14, 20214 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

11 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I doubt any of this was determined by LaRussa. That's the advanced scouting and analytics department. 

Before you say he doesn't listen to any of that, he was one of the pioneers of it in St. Louis.

Then why were the numbers so much better under Ricky Renteria who was just a year removed?

Just now, wegner said:

Speaking of spending/not spending...I wonder what would have happened if Wheeler accepted the Sox offer (or I should say if Mrs. Wheeler accepted the offer)?

Could have used Zach this post season that's for sure.

Imagine thinking the manager does not have the final word on defensive shifts.

Edited October 14, 20214 yr by Paulie4Pres

there was little chance that they would have 3 managers in 3 years, I was hoping tho

57 minutes ago, Tony said:

My question would be 1. How was that any different than what Ricky did and 2. If Ricky was managing the 2021 club, how do you envision the results would have been different? 

I'm not a Renteria fan either, I think the choice to move on was the right one. But given the talent on this team, I expected a better outcome than 2020. Ricky and Tony won the same amount of playoff games and both suffered a first round exit. I'm not blaming that on Ricky, or Tony......but I'm wondering how big of an "upgrade" Tony was from the last guy?

We would have lost to the Astros no matter who was managing.

16 minutes ago, Tony said:

In 2019 the Sox ranked 15th in shifts, doing it 22.3% of PA’s

In 2020 the Sox ranked 22nd in shifts, but they actually increased the amount of shifts they employed, doing it 29.3% of PA’s

In 2021, the Sox ranked 27th, and the number dropped to 20.3%
 

So I’m not so sure it wasn’t a LaRussa decision……and I don’t think you should be either. 

I'm sure he had input. Just as I'm sure the other departments did too.

I guess my comment should have been it's not LaRussa alone that made these decisions so to assume the dinosaur won't allow the shifts is erroneous. 

Edited October 14, 20214 yr by ptatc

12 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

Then why were the numbers so much better under Ricky Renteria who was just a year removed?

Are the advanced scouts the same? Are the people in the analytics department the same?

These decisions aren't made by one person without input from others.

13 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This cannot be a serious comment.

Calling Tony La Russa one of the pioneers of analytics in baseball is one of the most delusional things I've ever read.

https://www.mlb.com/news/featured/white-sox-changed-comiskey-park-dimensions-for-more-home-runs

I don't know if Tony is a "pioneer" but he certainly has shown a willingness to use analytics throughout his career. Interesting article ^

25 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I doubt any of this was determined by LaRussa. That's the advanced scouting and analytics department. 

Before you say he doesn't listen to any of that, he was one of the pioneers of it in St. Louis.

You mean the office now run by Shelly Duncan, son of former Cardinals pitching coach Dave Duncan? Fine, I’m ok with blaming him too. I wonder how he could have even gotten that job. There’s no one prominent in our organization who was so the Duncan and the Cardinals who would make that a pathetic nepotism hire who we should also blame, right?

Just now, KrankinSox said:

https://www.mlb.com/news/featured/white-sox-changed-comiskey-park-dimensions-for-more-home-runs

I don't know if Tony is a "pioneer" but he certainly has shown a willingness to use analytics throughout his career. Interesting article ^

Pioneer probably was a poor choice of words. Early adopter? Early user?

Just now, Balta1701 said:

You mean the office now run by Shelly Duncan, son of former Cardinals pitching coach Dave Duncan? Fine, I’m ok with blaming him too. I wonder how he could have even gotten that job. There’s no one prominent in our organization who was so the Duncan and the Cardinals who would make that a pathetic nepotism hire who we should also blame, right?

I would blame him too. My point was it is not just his decision alone as implied by the post that he the dinosaur is the reason.

Awesome news.